I just rewatched the season finale of Supernatural a little while ago and noticed that at the end Dean wants to bug on out of there but Sam holds Dean, who's looking scared shitless and wants nothing more than him and Sam to get out of there, but Sam makes him stay and then kinda, with a mix of both awe, intrepidation and more than a little anticipation says "he's coming" as the light fills the room.... Anyone else agree with me with what they see form Sam here? I actually see a VERY big difference between how the brothers are reacting to this development.
Supernatural- He's Coming!
- Thread starter Othello
- Start date
I think Sam is intrigued to see just what he has unleashed while Dean just wants to get out of there, especially since he is now well aware that the angels are evil.
Yeah Dean for all his anger about Sam, still deep down has the reflex get them the hell out of there. Had tot hat that he has just found out that he is designed to fight Lucifer, yeah Dean wants to get the hell out of dodge.
Sam on the other hand, as just discovered he has been used for two years, that all the good he has been doing (and the damage he has done to his own soul) was just to raise the ultimate big bad. That after all his years of worry about not falling into the plans of the YED, he ends up fulfilling them. So I think he needs to see what he has unleashed, I also think he would be more then happy to just die there.
Sam on the other hand, as just discovered he has been used for two years, that all the good he has been doing (and the damage he has done to his own soul) was just to raise the ultimate big bad. That after all his years of worry about not falling into the plans of the YED, he ends up fulfilling them. So I think he needs to see what he has unleashed, I also think he would be more then happy to just die there.
The angels aren't evil. They want to vanquish evil and win the war against it. They are the ultimate pragmatists and none too concerned with the fallout to humanity, but that doesn't make them evil. Especially given that the apocalypse is gonna happen someday no matter what.
See.. this is where I disagree.... I think Sam kinda wants to side with Lucifer even though he did kill Ruby... killing her was about a"'you traitorus bitch" moment but a part of him wants that power that he's come to enjoy even if he doesn't want to acknowledge he really likes the power.... I'd actually like to see them write sam working with Lucifer to try and bring him down and take his place..
all in the name of good of course.. 
I think Sam's going to be a little too wracked with guilt over what he's done to Dean and to the world to ignore Dean's advice yet again and go work with Lucifer. I do agree that his initial reaction seemed to be one of awe, though, and not abject terror. Sort of like a victim inexorably drawn to his tormentor. Ultimately, I think Sam's wish for Dean to forgive him will outweigh any awe he has about Lucifer.
As for the angels--I don't know if I'd call them evil, but their methods are more than questionable. Brutally pragmatic, and dismissive of humanity as a whole is a pretty accurate description of most of them at this point. Only the few who've broken away from the automaton mold--Anna and Castiel--seem promising.
As for the angels--I don't know if I'd call them evil, but their methods are more than questionable. Brutally pragmatic, and dismissive of humanity as a whole is a pretty accurate description of most of them at this point. Only the few who've broken away from the automaton mold--Anna and Castiel--seem promising.
Sam needs to stay around because Lucifer is going to need a powerful host to inhabit. We know that angels use hosts so Lucifer, as a fallen angel, will need one as well.
The way I see things, Dean is going to have to end up killing Sam. The Angels know this and in fact I think some of their comments throughout the season have been foreshadowing towards that.
The way I see things, Dean is going to have to end up killing Sam. The Angels know this and in fact I think some of their comments throughout the season have been foreshadowing towards that.
Unfortunately, I think this may prove to be true.
Don't get me wrong, it makes complete sense, and could prove to be very interesting. I just don't want that to be the outcome of the brothers' story though.
Yeah, that would suck if Dean, whose job it was to look out for Sam, ends up having to kill Sam. I'm a little more optimistic tho. I think that the reason that Castiel raised Dean from hell was because Dean would be able to snap Sam to his senses and bring Sam of of his downward spiral that Ruby caused after Dean's death and trip to hell. I think "Lucifer Rising" is the turning point of Sam slowly starting to retrust Dean's judgment again...but there may be a few steps backwards again along the way to season 5's finale.
I think that would be a PERFECT ending for Supernatural. One thing I DESPISE about Hollywood is the clinging to the "feel good" ending. That's why I love the movie City of Angels so damn much. Cage give up being an angel for the love of a woman and BAM!..... she dies. That was a bold ending.
Yeah but with the very first episode having Sam being tainted by YED, and its growth throughout the seasons, wouldn't an ending like that be a sort of paint by numbers. Tough in truth pretty much any ending they do, will be something that doesn't surprise.
As to Sam being the host for Lucifer the reason I say no, is purely a production one.
Look at all the previous big bads they have had, and look how little they have actually been on the screen.
If Sam is possessed by Lucifer, first the story is no longer about Sam and Dean, its about Dean and Lucifer. One thing Kripke has always been clear about is this is a show about the brothers. So just on that I don't think they would go there for an all out possessed character.
Now is it possible they will build to a point where Sam would willingly give himself over to Lucifer? I just don't see it.
Sure we have seen Sam be addicted to power, but we have also seen his utter hate with the forces of hell (remember he only put up with Ruby because she was pretending to be against the forces of hell). It was his hatred for what was done to him, for what happened to Dean and what could still happen to Dean that has pushed him over.
On the production side they have never done a long term separation between the guys, in fact how many episodes have they not had some form of direct contact? I don't think there has been a single one. I don't know if the producers are both brave enough and good enough to keep two fully separate stories going. I just haven't seen it.
As to Sam being the host for Lucifer the reason I say no, is purely a production one.
Look at all the previous big bads they have had, and look how little they have actually been on the screen.
If Sam is possessed by Lucifer, first the story is no longer about Sam and Dean, its about Dean and Lucifer. One thing Kripke has always been clear about is this is a show about the brothers. So just on that I don't think they would go there for an all out possessed character.
Now is it possible they will build to a point where Sam would willingly give himself over to Lucifer? I just don't see it.
Sure we have seen Sam be addicted to power, but we have also seen his utter hate with the forces of hell (remember he only put up with Ruby because she was pretending to be against the forces of hell). It was his hatred for what was done to him, for what happened to Dean and what could still happen to Dean that has pushed him over.
On the production side they have never done a long term separation between the guys, in fact how many episodes have they not had some form of direct contact? I don't think there has been a single one. I don't know if the producers are both brave enough and good enough to keep two fully separate stories going. I just haven't seen it.
I still think they'll both die at the end.
Exactly. Angels are concerned with human souls, not human lives. Everybody dies, and from an angels perspective humans have the life expectancey of a gnat. When a human dies their soul goes to heaven or hell, and all is right with the universe. If a ton of humans die in the apocalypse their souls will go where they are supposed to and like Zach said "we like our chances". If the angels win its milk and cookies for everybody. Surely its worth sending a few (or a few million) humans to their eternal rewards a little early...
Not saying I agree, just looking at it from their perspective.
Sam only put up with Ruby? No, Sam was perfectly comfortable with Ruby. He had sex with her.
Even if Lucifer does take Sam as a host, it will still be about the brothers. It will be Dean trying to struggle between saving Sam and saving the world. Sam has fallen and I am not sure he can be redeemed (at least for me). He drank the blood of that woman. He could have exorcised her and freed her of the demon.
One of the reasons why I think Sam will be host is because again we saw the yellow eyed demon in that last episode and there were a number of comments (I do not remember specifics) that seemed to suggest that was the intention.
You do realize that sex doesn't equal love. In fact I have hated a couple people I have had sex with. Assuming jus tthe one sex scene we had was at a point where he was about to go commit suicide shows Sam wasn't in what would call any rational mind set.
But my point about Sam and demons is he hates them. ANd yes he put up with Ruby. He didn't give her free reign, he has shown disgust, distain, and hatred towards her. She had to do many things to earn trust from Sam. BUt he did build a trust for her, as long as she toed the line and helped him reach his goal. She never could push him like others such as Dean or Bobby could. And we see disgust in is eyes about her (and about himself). But as he was focused solely on his goal,and she was a means to an end, he put him with her, again only as long as she toed the line.
For example, if she would have killed Dean (like she wanted to, over any number of occasions) Sam would no longer put up with her. If she didn't help him in what he needed, he would no longer put up with her. If she started killing again, sam would have no longer put up with her.
See my point.
We see no emotional attachment to the character of Ruby from Sam. We see a dependancy on her blood, and and how she feeds his need for vengeance, but nothing else. No terms of endearment, no joking light hearted comments, no levity, nothing.
But my point about Sam and demons is he hates them. ANd yes he put up with Ruby. He didn't give her free reign, he has shown disgust, distain, and hatred towards her. She had to do many things to earn trust from Sam. BUt he did build a trust for her, as long as she toed the line and helped him reach his goal. She never could push him like others such as Dean or Bobby could. And we see disgust in is eyes about her (and about himself). But as he was focused solely on his goal,and she was a means to an end, he put him with her, again only as long as she toed the line.
For example, if she would have killed Dean (like she wanted to, over any number of occasions) Sam would no longer put up with her. If she didn't help him in what he needed, he would no longer put up with her. If she started killing again, sam would have no longer put up with her.
See my point.
We see no emotional attachment to the character of Ruby from Sam. We see a dependancy on her blood, and and how she feeds his need for vengeance, but nothing else. No terms of endearment, no joking light hearted comments, no levity, nothing.
And as for Sam being a host for Lucifer I can only see it if its a short episode span, you can't have Lucifer roaming around next to Dean, for episodes on end, that isn't something that I think most viewers could swallow.
Nor do I think most could see it being a situation where Sam's personality is holding Lucifer back. I don't think anyone in the audience would buy that.
You would need to have a reason for letting Lucifer (if the like Angels he needs to be invited in, and f his tattoo wouldn't prevent it) in. And so far the only motivation that has allowed him to work with even one demon (and thats with that one demon lying her ass off, already saving their lives) was because he needed to save Dean.
Nor do I think most could see it being a situation where Sam's personality is holding Lucifer back. I don't think anyone in the audience would buy that.
You would need to have a reason for letting Lucifer (if the like Angels he needs to be invited in, and f his tattoo wouldn't prevent it) in. And so far the only motivation that has allowed him to work with even one demon (and thats with that one demon lying her ass off, already saving their lives) was because he needed to save Dean.
No, it would not. 95% or more of the people out there expect the brohters bond to overcome anything.
I see it clearly. Evil is cunning and manipulative. I can easily see a way for Lucifer to get Sam to do that. He could even do that over an extended arc of the season and o it towards te middle or end. Ever see the movie The Devil's Advocate? (which to my mind has the greatest scene in a movie ever.) Now THAT was a perfect Satan..... setting up the choices but the choices are ALWAYS the person's to make.
A hate that burns like that is a sin my dear.
There's a reason that wrath is a deadly sin. hatred liek that can be twisted, molded and shaped by a master mnipulator.No, they haven't. And that's why they should.
