• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Supernatural 5x4 "The End" discussion thread spoilery

That felt a little more on form though I was surprised that they reunited the brothers that quickly. I liked Jared's Mr. Rourke-ish Lucifer and the character moments but the Apocalypse itself left me a bit nonplussed.

Even in the future Dean is a dog. And Cas didn't seem to be doing to bad for himself either. I wonder if Chuck had anyone, feast or famine, I guess.:)
 
Really? I rather liked the soldiers blowing croats away en masse while "Do You Love Me?" from Dirty Dancing played. :lol:

What impressed me about Sam as Lucifer was that you really felt like Dean was talking to Lucifer. It was as if Sam wasn't there at all. Padalecki totally fell into the character. I guess future Dean couldn't bring himself to shoot him? That's how Lucifer got his foot on his throat so quickly?

I wouldn't say the brothers are completely reunited. They'll still be pretty tentative with each other.
 
Yeah I think its more of the , we have issues still, but lets work through them and not just ignore them by going our own separate ways.

I really liked the episode. As for the future, I am surprised with their budget that they managed that large of a canvas of destruction.

With 4 episodes now, 3 have seemed better produced (as far as sets and atmosphere) then what we normally get. I am wondering if WB has upped their budget a little, we know the CW isn't paying more for the show. But warners can set any budget they wish. Or if they just planned to go over budget on a few episodes and plan to scale back others to cover the cost.

I loved that they focused on the characters and not the action set pieces. Having no budget really has helped steer them away from plot driven story telling to character based storytelling. And for the most part I like that better. Though a strong mix of both is awesome (Jus In Bello is a good example).

I enjoyed Castiel use here, both in the teaser, and int he future where he has lost any hope. And we really see that he truly has no desire to be human, unlike Anna.

And it shouldn't really surprise that Sam at some point agrees to host. After all Lucifer gets serious he just has Sam killed and what it took Dean 4 months to break (40 years) put Sam in a few times for a year here, months here, and I would think it would be easy to get him to falter. And we certainly know that demons will take advantage of anyone no matter their mental state or their ability to what we normally consider give legal consent.
 
^ That's not how this Lucifer operates. He convinces you to do things of your own free will. It's the other angels that resort to strong-arm tactics. Lucifer seduces you.
 
Exactly. Lucifer's most powerful weapon is not his strength, but his charisma. He knows exactly what to say in order to get people to do what he wants them to do. With Sam (who isn't nearly as strong-willed as either his brother or his father) alone and cut off from everyone he loves, it would have been extremely easy for Lucifer to convince him to say yes.

I'd still like to see how Jensen would portray Michael in Dean's body, but I hope it never comes down to a Dean/Michael vs. Sam/Lucifer showdown. That would be too simple.
 
Checkmate said:
^ That's not how this Lucifer operates. He convinces you to do things of your own free will. It's the other angels that resort to strong-arm tactics. Lucifer seduces you.
Click to expand...

And I think that's exactly what he was doing. Lucifer manipulates everyone, demon, human, and angel alike. I think his endgame is that he wants a shot at Michael. He wants to piss off Dean to say yes.
 
mswood said:
Yeah I think its more of the , we have issues still, but lets work through them and not just ignore them by going our own separate ways.

I really liked the episode.
Click to expand...

So did I.

As for the future, I am surprised with their budget that they managed that large of a canvas of destruction.
Click to expand...

I thought the look of the future was fantastic. This is television, so I'm not expecting motion picture FX on any series. I am just a fan of the show. I don't know anything about the 'behind the scene' politics, or what gets said at conventions, and I don't care. I like the story that's been built season upon season, and the relationship between the Winchester boys.

I enjoyed Castiel use here, both in the teaser, and int he future where he has lost any hope. And we really see that he truly has no desire to be human, unlike Anna.
Click to expand...

Seconded.
 
Pretty good episode. I want to find out how/why Sam said yes in a future episode. Also, I'd LOVE to see them bring Lexa Doig on the show as a recurring character and hope this wasn't just a one off for her.
 
Matt Roush's "The Week in Review" column of TV Guide loves this episode

He awarded us the week's best "Flash Forward." That includes Flash Forward. He called it the week's "Other Flash Forward." :D He has very nice things to say about Supernatural. :bolian: Nice to be recognized after he ignored the show for three and a half seasons because "the time slot was too crowded." :scream:

Week’s Best Flash Forward: Dean taken five years into a bleak future on a first-rate Supernatural episode, which shows him the dire consequences of going it alone. (For one, his brother Sam has officially become Lucifer’s “vessel,” and looks unusually menacing as he gloats over his immoral victory in a white suit.) Scariest bit: Dean chased through a Kansas City ghetto by a Croatoan-virus-infected mob who are in turn massacred by soldiers. Very zombie movie in tone. Funniest bit: Castiel as a grinning, perpetually stoned love guru after going mortal. (When Dean gets back to 2009, he tells Cas: “Don’t ever change.”) Also loved Dean’s shout-out to a classic Twilight Zone episode when he wondered, finding Bobby’s empty wheelchair: “Where is everybody?” Have I mentioned lately how much I’m enjoying being back in sync with this show? Glad to see the brothers reunited. As Dean says: “We keep each other human.” Not easy this season.
 
Well I didn't mean that Lucifer would actively kill Sam. I meant that Lucifer would set back and watch Sam die (be it from his own hand or others, after all a larger number of beings probably still want him dead), and literally without having to do anything, Sam would experience the torture that Dean went through. He brings him back and offers a way to make the pain stop. If he is willing to remove him from Hell, then he certainly is willing to actively take a hand to get his goal, and not just to manipulate.

Or imagine, the Croatoan virus is released, Sam is offered the means to stop it, in exchange for his consent?

Just as future Dean in hindsight would gladly trade himself, and the tens of millions who will die in the fight between angels and demons to stop the future he has lived through. Of course this still assumes that Dean did in fact travel to the future, since Zachariah has already manipulated the boys, their memories and surroundings, then we literally have only his word that he did send him to the future.
 
They'll never answer if Zachariah manipulated the future or not. That would be too neat and clean and spoon fed in terms of story. Leaving it ambiguous makes for better story. As for Sam, you gotta wonder what would finally drive him to say "Yes" to good old St. Nick. Did I mention how much I loved that flinch when Dean took out the knife before he handed it to Sam? Padalecki brings Sam's genuine shame to the surface so beautifully. He was so grateful that his brother had let him back in. You could feel his relief. I think Dean saying, "No" yet again shook Sam to his core more than Lucifer's declaration.

The reunion could have been chick flick sentimental glop. It was anything but.
 
I do wonder, though...how did Zachariah find Dean? He and Sam are both supposed to be hidden from all angels.
 
Zach got some of the crazy Jehovah's Witnesses' types to keep a look out for Dean. Remember when he got out of the car in Kansas City? The dude who was holding the placard asking people if they'd contemplated the end of the world? He told Zach where Dean was. That's why Dean joked to Cas at the end that they'd have to avoid the Jehovah's Witnesses from then on.
 
Oh! Right, I remember that line about the Jehovah's Witness, just didn't make the connection. Okay, all's well again. :techman:
 
Auriq said:
Personally, I absolutely *loved* stoner Cass.

"What? I like past you."
Click to expand...

Same here.

"Are you stoned?"

"Generally, yes." :lol:

Overall, I thought this episode was the strongest thus far of the season (taking into account only 4 episodes have aired). I felt it was sort of a companion piece to season 4's "In the Beginning" but this time Dean goes forward in time as opposed to backwards.
 
There's something that I'm wondering about, where there any other fallen angels trapped with Lucifer? After all it has been stated in the mythology that a number of angels rebelled against God and fell so we could assume that there are either a number of rebel angels roaming the earth or still languishing in the Pit.

Or am I wrong and are were all the angels loyal to the hierarchy?
 
I thought it was a pretty amazing episode... It's amazing that zachariah is so clueless... he thought he'd convince dean by showing him the future... then gives dean the key to defeating lucifer and doesn't even know it.... Forgiveness... that most godly of trait, a concept that zachariah doesn't even grasp.
 
Perhaps Lucifer was the only Rebel too powerful to simply destroy? And since human souls that are tortured into demonhood it's rather unlikely that the Others were turned into Demons.

Mind you given Lucifer's wonderful monologue in this episode it seems that the Fall is based around the Islamic concept of Lucifer's pride and refusal to bow to humanity.

Which raises an interesting question, what happened to God? Are we sure that a rebellion against God failed? After all Zachariah did seem terrified at the prospect of God restoring Castial:shifty:...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top