Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoilerish

[Checkmate]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Because Lucifer will have a vessel. Angels need a vessel to wreak havoc on an individual level. Angels need vessels. As Azazel once said, "them's the rules." Red tape.

Err.

So you're saying the rule is that an archangel can smite anyone they like (including angels, ala Castiel's demise) as an archangel only when protecting Chuck, but the moment Lucifer is around they have to find a vessel to do anything to him?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

No, but they need a vessel to communicate with other humans. You might need to do that to find Lucifer. Lucifer needs to communicate with people to be able to corrupt people. You forget that angel's true forms make people's eyes burn out. Occasionally, they need a human for this, that and the other thing. They aren't necessarily intent on killing everybody--the godly designated vessels, for instance. Those lucky few would be kept safe. Yes, Raphael could smite Castiel without aid of a body, but he has to be able to find him. Castiel's hiding with his enochian signils and whatnot. Cas is in on the run. If he were near Chuck, Raphael could see him, because he's programmed to protect. Otherwise, Raphael's gonna need a human body to find Castiel and the boys.

The devil wasn't anywhere near Sam. Remember? He said that eventually he'd find him. He can project into Sam's unconscious mind, but because of the enochian thing carved into Sam's ribs, Lucifer can't find his physical location. He can't see him, even if he were with Bobby.

 

[Checkmate]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

That still doesn't explain why Michael himself needs a body. The other angels could be out scouring the Earth for Lucifer and, once found, Michael could be the smite on him. Especially since he'd be at full divine power whereas Lucifer is grossly restrained by the limits of his vessel.

It just doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

You answered your own question--once found. Lucifer can hide. Angels have tricks like the enochian signils (sp?) They can cast each other into the horizon with those blood symbols Castiel was using. Lucifer wants to be on Earth to corrupt mankind. The angels want the apocalypse to happen. Both sides want to be on Earth.

Raphael could only smite Castiel because he found him. Castiel delivered himself when he went to see Chuck. He's hiding now. The circle of Jerusalem oil on fire contained Raphael. Presumably an angel in a human vessel could locate Lucifer in his host.

The enochian signils are like the hex bags that kept demons, Lilith specifically, from locating the boys. Remember when Lilith came to visit Sam in the hotel? He'd burned the hex bags.

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Actually on this I agree with Checkmate.

Now it is possible that to fouc their power on the mortal plane (when its not been in a Host) the power released does not seem to be focused but generalized over a larger area. But when it a host so far tehy seem to be able to focus their energies much tighter.

For example, I assume that Castiel was going all out on Alistair yet their was no wide spread damage.

So my guess is that besides being able to move around without large scale disturbances, the host allows the powers to be focused.

That would explain an ArchAngel being able to take down Castiel (a much weaker angel), but needed every single advantage when going against Lucifer.

Of course, what do I know just speculation.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Now it is possible that to fouc their power on the mortal plane (when its not been in a Host) the power released does not seem to be focused but generalized over a larger area. But when it a host so far tehy seem to be able to focus their energies much tighter.

Exactly. Castiel in his true angel form was just talking to Dean in "Lazarus Rising" and he destroyed a hotel room and a gas station.

Also, I'd always been under the impression that Lucifer wasn't a garden variety, low powered low on the totem pole angel. I thought he'd been closer to arch angel level.

 

[Skywalker]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Lucifer should be the angel, IIRC. The top dog. Which would explain why he's so damn powerful. It's not like God would have made him more powerful after he rebelled.

Or would He have?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Lucifer should be the angel, IIRC. The top dog.

Yep.

As for God's actions, (or failure to act) they've always been pretty inexplicable. I like that SPN isn't attempting to explain what can't be explained. This show seems to be taking more of a deistic approach to God. It's a viewpoint I happen to agree with.

 

[gunnermac]

Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

I liked this ep. fairly much. Not the best al all but quite entertaining. At first i hated the idea of Castiel at the "den of inequity", but when it turned out that Castiel ofcourse tried to bond as he is used to it made the scene quite good. And it was nice to see Dean laugh again. The Sam story I agree with most of you, was pretty bland. Both the hunters and the barwench needs more story to work in the show, but that may ofcurse come. What I really really like is Lucifer. I think it is the best Lucifer I have seen ever, he's very "New Testament", a real tempter and deciever. Not the ridiculous evil grinning red devil or even the "Jack Nicolson-type". No, this Lucifer talks quietly and plain to people. He uses subtle fear and dispair to push people where he wants them to be. I really like him, and that end scene made the show a B+ for me.