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Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoilerish

D

Dorian Thompson

Admiral
Admiral
Lucifer's back. Raphael's here. Sam has two visitors he doesn't need. The potential for sadness is off the charts. In the Beginning type sadness. Poor Sam.

Space Promo

Once again, I have a meeting with the asshole client from Nevada. sigh. I'll have to watch it online later on. I hate having to do that. :scream::scream::scream::scream:

Annnnnd, the clip from the eppy that's causing controversy with the more prudish segment of the fandom. :guffaw:

get laid

Dean is such a corrupting influence. :lol:
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Hey, tonight's eppy mad the New York Times "What to Watch tonight" column. They have a column and give a show to watch for the right reasons and one to watch for the wrong reasons (because it's so bad it's good). SPN made it for the right reasons. :techman: Grey's Anatomy received the razzie reason. :lol:

In the arms of an archangel
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

That was a rather flat hour. I'm just not feeling the show this season. I can't give this more than a grade of C.

The only really portion of the show that actually engaged me was the final scene involving the revelation about Sam and the inevitable showdown between the two brothers and Raphael's melancholy. The rest of the hour was a plodding mishmash. The hour just seemed to drag on.

I didn't care for the out-of place juvenile gag of Dean trying to get Castiel getting laid. It was dumb and forced --although Misha Collins' facial expressions were somewhat cute.

These last three episodes have been very disjointed doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that adding up to three pretty disappointing hours although I think last week was a slight bit better. Sure we get some nuggets of information and move the characters around and there are a few decent character scenes but at the end of each hour I've felt that it just wasn't worth it.

A lot of what happened was obvious and stale--from the hunters finding out about Sam to the lack of jeopardy with the girl(she was so interesting I forgot her name already). The episode just wandered aimlessly. I know set-up can be more interesting than this.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Okay, why would Dean and Raphael's vessel be vegetables (more or less) once their respective angels possessed them, but Jimmy wasn't?


Quick impressions:
  • I was surprised to learn Sam is Lucifer's true vessel. That amps up the ante this season.
  • I'm not quite sure what to make out of Dean's attitude. Doesn't he miss Sam at all?
  • I really don't like Dean being so much of a mindless horn-dog and trying to get Castiel laid. He's an angel for crying out loud. That whole sequence sucked and gets two thumbs down from me.
  • Didn't like the girl working at the bar. Geez, do all these girls have to be pushy skanks? And I didn't feel any concern or worry about her being in the hands of crazed hunters; why should Sam? We have no emotion vested in her. I didn't like that either.
  • I love Misha Collins.
  • An uneven episode. If I were grading it it would get a C.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

And must all the hunters be portrayed as rednecks and they really need to tone down the pop culture references in the show--they aren't funny and take me right out of the show.

The show is toying dangerously close to the kind of malaise that plagues a lot of shows in their later years although this new tv season hasn't exactly been the most exciting either so it isn't just isolated to SN.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Dean misses Sam a great deal. He's lying to himself. His lips said one thing--his eyes and body language said something quite a bit different. Him looking over to the empty seat after offing the vamps ("eat it, twilight!" :guffaw:) said it all.

Dean doesn't miss the responsibility of the constant worry over Sam that was drilled into him since childhood. Dean does miss Sam. He misses his brother. What Dean and Sam both need is for their relationship to transition from surrogate father/little protected brother to two brothers on equal footing who are friends. This separation is being played out very organically. I like it.

I also like Dean Cas in a whorehouse. Cas is a fallen angel now. Why wouldn't he be interested? This fandom needs to lighten up. :devil: Collins is so hysterical he had me in stitches. What really impressed was Raphael--so he's Chuck's babysitter? :lol: God is dead? The actor impressed me. I wanted to see him again.

Lindsey, meh, not so much. The actress was okay but no great shakes. Sam as Lucifer's meatsuit I like, but I'm thinking that Sam and Dean will chuck their destinies a la Babylon Five. Pellegrino is smooth, isn't he? You will say yes? Chilling. Ups the ante by about a thousand, I would say.

Loved the music coming back. Thought the episode was good if a bit choppy. Loved Sam spitting the blood back in the hunter's face. Go Sam! Didn't like that Sam still doesn't seem to fully comprehend (or rather, doesn't want to face) what he did to Dean. It's as if he's more ashamed to confront that than starting the apocalypse. Sooner or later it's got to be dealt with. I wanted to throttle the kid.

Still, I wouldn't get mad if the characters weren't so compelling to me. I give it a healthy "B." The uneven pacing brings the grade down. The politically incorrect humor keeps the grade up. :evil:
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

I would assume that Dean does miss his brother, but Dean does make a really valid point. Since he picked Sam up from Stanford he had to immediately deal with a grieving Sam, then he had to deal with WTF is my brother having visions and a brief bout of telekinesis. Then between dealing with the death of their father and discovering that he might have to kill his own brother if he can save him, then watching him die, selling his soul for his brother, then when he tries to have fun, Sam is absolutely no fun, goes to almost any length to try and save Dean (again Dean havingto worry about Sam on his own after he dies, and trying to prevent Sam from going dark before then. To being decades in hell, coming back and finding his brother not only with Ruby but embracing his demon abilities, and sure Sam does agree to stop using them (and he does for several months give it up), but Dean still worries about it, then of course, it builds, and builds and builds.

He loves his brother, but right now Dean has to feel a huge amount of immediate release. Release that is going to be very short lived.

While I liked the episode better then two of the posters, I do agree that this episode (for me more then the others was disjointed in tone). Both stories were serious stores and yet the music and banter (especially in Dean and Castiel's was light in town like a small heist was being performed. Not that they were trying to trap one of the most dangerous beings in the universe. That really didn't help the episode.

Oh, while I can certainly see Dean wanting to cut loose, and I personally have no problem with sex, I do have a problem with him wanting to get Castiel laid. And besides Anna (who was still waiting to be human) no angel has shown the desire or ability to have sex. To show how much I don't buy that, I could buy Dean having sex with Sam, before this (and I don't see that happening at all).

As for why Castiel's host isn't harmed, the episode made it clear that the higher the power the more damage to the host. And Castiel isn't high on the angel chain.

Highlights for this episode was its opening (and almost all of Sam's scenes), the bits with Dean before his mission to find the arch angel, and the scenes in the house with the arch angel to the end.

But the parts in the hospital and the build up to that rang false. THough I did get a kick out of them posing as FBI.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

When have we seen the angels in a situation where sex would even come up? Castiel's a fallen angel like Anna; that's the difference IMO. Maybe I'm just coarse. I thought the whorehouse bit was hilarious. Go figure. I can buy a fallen angel wanting sex before Dean and Sam doing it. :lol: Very much so. Obviously Castiel's a troublemaker under the skin.

Why the hell would Dean want to be Michael's vessel now knowing what he knows about the damage? And where the hell IS Michael? Why isn't he talking to Dean? Questions, questions.....

Dean does love Sam. That much is plain, but you nailed it, mswood. He's feeling a tremendous release being away from him at the moment. That fact is driving some of the TWOP faithful insane. :lol: It's true to life, though. You can love someone desperately and yet desperately need to be away from them. Some don't want that brutal honesty in their characters. Dean needs to be able to love his brother without feeling he has to take care of him lest Sam perish physically or emotionally. That's the tightrope he has to navigate.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

startrekwatcher said:
And must all the hunters be portrayed as rednecks and they really need to tone down the pop culture references in the show--they aren't funny and take me right out of the show.

The show is toying dangerously close to the kind of malaise that plagues a lot of shows in their later years although this new tv season hasn't exactly been the most exciting either so it isn't just isolated to SN.
Click to expand...

I don't mind the pop references when made by characters where its a habit (Dean). And Dean is obsessed with TV and film (that and bars are really the only entertainment we have ever seen him have through out his whole life.

And since he is a smart ass (from the get go) and with the limits of what type of language they can actually use, it generally doesn't bother me (again primarily because its consistent with the character). And say unlike Buffy it for the most part is just one character (on Buffy have the cast was doing it every episode, and that didn't feel right to me).

I know Kripke wants the show's primary arc over in the end of the fifth season (and with the abysmal performance across the board with the CW this is probably a good thing, I honestly don't see the CW in business next year), but episode 1 and 3 really felt like each could have been 2 episodes. I mean 90% of the material I have really liked, but I feel that they aren't so far gotten to explore it.

But again as one who for a long time had no problem with a season 6 (and had stated that I thought this last dash could probably be stretched more then a season, and so far I think it easily could but hell only three episodes in), but thanks to the performance of every single cw show, I don't think that is an option anymore.

Just this week 3 out of 6 shows didn't even cross 2 million viewers, down 20-35% from last week's episodes, and down 30-50% from last years episodes. So really they have to get that material in now or we wont have any resolution to this arc.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Top Model only got 2.84 million last night. It used to be the crown jewel of CW ratings. Not anymore. I agree with you....I think the CW is going to fold. They're not firing Ostroff because it would be redundant at this point with the network going down the toilet.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Dorian

Anna was human fully at the time and actually sought out being human. Castiel didn't, he seek's to be the best angel he can be. There is a huge difference. I loved Misha's performance in those scenes, but on a character front I don't believe it at all.

And since I know more brothers who have had some sexual contact then Angels who don't want to be human having sex, so go figure.

And as for Sam dealing with what he did to the world over what harm he caused Dean, well lets face it one is vastly more important. And lets face it not once has Dean ever dealt with his betrayals of Sam either. Too bad, deal with it (was one of them oh and him apologizing, which we have already seen Sam do). And since they are very upfront about making it an addiction problem (look lets go to AA), then typical the person gets control back over their life and then proceeds to make amends.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Oh, I'm willing to watch it play out. You may well be right about the route addicts must take to heal. I think both brothers have a lot of bullshit to apologize for. They'll get there. They do love to torture us.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Based on the ratings pattern for the last two weeks across the CW expect numbers for SN between 2.2 and 2.6 million. And some demos under 1.0. It could be very brutal tomorrow.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

I don't think we really will ever get scenes of Dean saying how he screwed things up, I think they'll focus almost exclusively on Sam having to make amends.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

I had no problem with Dean taking Castiel to get laid. It was very appropriate for Dean (who "knows" that angels can get laid without becoming bad guys -- he knows it first hand). More importantly, however, was what it showed from Castiel himself. He trusts Dean completely. He believes that Dean has been touched by God just as he himself has been, even if that is now in question courtesy of Raphael. He believes it's his duty to both protect Dean and to be guided by him. And that's exactly what we've been seeing this season.

The best part is what Castiel actually did when he was alone with her. He tried to ease her suffering and, more than likely, bond with her the only way he knows how. He had no idea it would backfire so poorly. Which is what had me in stitches. XD

I also definitely agree that Dean misses Sam's company and friendship. What he doesn't miss -- and what relieves him to no end -- is the tremendous responsibility and pressure he felt to protect and care for his little brother. That was pretty clear during his final scene in the car with Castiel.

As for Sam's story tonight, I found it a snoozefest until the very end. I suspected something was up with his vision early in the episode, just as he should have, but I wasn't expecting it to be Lucifer. It's interesting that he found a way around the Enochian glyph Castiel carved into his ribs, and that it's still a powerful means of communication. I just wonder why Lucifer hasn't been able to use it to deduce where Sam is. Can't be that hard to spot a matchbook or address on a magazine or something.

Sam's new love interest was utterly forgettable, the redneck hunters were even worse, and their reaction to losing their friend was just ridiculous. Sam spitting the demon blood out was great if wholly expected, but that was about the only other part of his story that I cared for.

So, my grade would be a C- for Sam's story and a B+ for Dean's. But I might be biased as I've always liked Dean more than Sam anyway. :D

On a side note, I find it interesting that women seem to prefer Sam while men seem to prefer Dean. I wonder why that is.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

I had no problem with Dean taking Castiel to get laid. It was very appropriate for Dean (who "knows" that angels can get laid without becoming bad guys -- he knows it first hand). More importantly, however, was what it showed from Castiel himself. He trusts Dean completely. He believes that Dean has been touched by God just as he himself has been, even if that is now in question courtesy of Raphael. He believes it's his duty to both protect Dean and to be guided by him. And that's exactly what we've been seeing this season.
Click to expand...
Checkmate--my man. :techman: Yeah, I had no problem with Dean taking Castiel to get laid either. Hee. The Dean/Castiel pairing has a dynamic that differentiates it from Dean and Sam. It's very Farscape in which all the different pairings had points of interest that fascinated me. That only strengthens a show IMO.

If you like Dean better, you'll love next week. It's gonna have that all out war post nuclear armageddon vibe you were jonesing for and then some. I enjoyed Sam's story a lot more than you did. Spitting out the blood was awesome. :D And I'm enjoying Mark Pellegrino.

Men respond to Dean and women respond to Sam. I never thought about it like that. Interesting, but true now that I think about it. Dean's a man's man sort of man while Sam's a renaissance man. It's obvioius that Dean misses his companionship; it's just that he wants things to be different. He wants Sam's friendship but he doesn't have the strength to be a watchdog/protector anymore. It's an earned development. That's why I like it.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

mswood said:
Dorian

Anna was human fully at the time and actually sought out being human. Castiel didn't, he seek's to be the best angel he can be. There is a huge difference. I loved Misha's performance in those scenes, but on a character front I don't believe it at all.
Click to expand...

Seconded.
 
Re: Supernatural 5x3 "Free to Be You and Me" discussion thread/spoiler

Sam's not a pussy. He's too power hungry to be a pussy. Man's an animal in bed, too. That must be why all the demon chicks want a piece of ass from him. :evil: I'll be in my bunk.
 
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