Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thread

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

Of course Dean isn't a whiner. I think the angel was just trying to get him back into the game by pissing him off like a coach will do with his players. Angels aren't fluffy sensitivity trained beings. They're pretty much mean when they have to be and when they don't have to be. Dean is a hunter by nature. He needs to see that. Him threatening to stab Zachariah in the face was great. It was a warranted response.

I loved that the Ghostfacers called them douche nozzles.

 

[Roberto]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

This episode was OK.

 

[hyzmarca]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

It would be funny if Lillith has settled down into a quiet New England town and written a series of Boddice-ripper romances loosely based on her encounters with Sam and Dean. Funny, and disturbing.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

That would have been priceless. I'm wondering what deal she's offering to get Sam into bed with her in the preview. Dean's going to blow a gasket and not in a good way.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

As usual, the Space promo from north of the border is different

The Monster at the End of the Book

 

[Othello]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

The voice over, which is Sam's voice, says "Lilith is close." I made an assumption since Ruby already has her own body. The girl is saying, "You can end it. All you have to do is agree to my terms." I don't know who could end it except Lilith.

Makes sense.. the world better never have to depend on me not getting it on with a very beautiful woman or the world is in REALLY big trouble!! LOL

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

Dorian

While I understand that the angel was trying to give Dean a slap to the face to get him back into the game, I just didn't buy it. Not by performance or by dialogue.

With the utter nightmare that Dean's been in their are only two things (or persons) who I think should have had any hope of getting him to snap out of it. Sam or John.

And imagine how much stronger that ending could have been if it was John who gave him his marching orders.

That I would have bought, and I think so would have the character.

I also really think (if its in the cards) that the angel's are seriously not getting it, if they don't play into Dean's fears for Sam Both his soul (for that path) or dean's more basic level need to keep him safe.

I understand on a creative front the writers don't want to show the audience to much of what could happen, and thus don't lay the cards out on the table, but from a character point of view, for Dean it would need to be something like a primal fear for Sam (again either his soul or his life) or John.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

Yeah, but Jeffrey Dean Morgan isn't available. Still filming movies. What can you do?

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you here, my good friend. I think Dean needs to be able to be motivated by something other than a fear for Sam or admonition from his father beyond the grave to show that he's able to face life again. His feeling that he'd failed Sam is what set this whole thing in motion. He couldn't live with the fact that he'd failed in his duty from his father to protect his brother. Dean's got to be able to see the bigger picture at some point. He's got to want to fight again for himself and for the world at large, to see that there are other duties he has and other things that are important. He's got to be able to relate to something other than Sam if he's ever going to be psychologically healthy. Someone else has got to be able to get him to fight again, preferably himself.

Pretty wild about Jeffrey Dean Morgan's ex-girlfriend coming out publicly saying she had his child four years ago and that she never told him, huh?

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

Hell I never heard anything about Jeffrey Dean Morgan.. Yikes.

Oh and of course, Dean should have some other stimulus get him in action (Or force him to understand there are other things besides family to motivate you.

But the angel had two minutes...I just couldn't buy it. ANd I am trying to think what in a very brief amount of time could snap Dean into action.

The only things that in a brief amount of time that I can think of are John and Sam (and yeah I also understand that Jeff as a very busy career).

I can also picture Lilith having an immediate impact (but perhaps not in the good way, perhaps to push him deeper in his shell).

I think it could have been successful if this experience was completely free of his family, but it wasn't.

THough if they did that just thank of all the Sam fans who would be bitching about JAred not getting any screen time.

Hell as awesome as "In the Beginning" was there were still some people bitching about it.

Remember last year when the trickster tried to point out to Sam how much he needed to get over his obsession with Dean's fate. Even with months of new memories about how this would effect him, he learned nothing from it. In fact I think in some ways it drove him further (willing to become immortal organ needed monster), ect...

It's not really an active complaint about the episode, since I do understand the limitations tehy have to work with, but its more of in my dream world where budget isn't an issue, where we get fully realized scenes even if they took 12 days to occur, ect

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

Oh, there were people bitching that the angel didn't have a nice five minute scene with Sam at the end so that Sam could have a special moment, too--even though Sam was featured for most of the episode. The "warring factions" of Dean vs. Sam in the fandom are alive and well. Yes, compromise the story so that the lines can be apportioned exactly 50/50. The angels are wary of Sam, so why would they have a Mr. Rogers moment with him now? Sam's not the one who can stop the apocalypse according to their prophecy.

No, Sam didn't listen to the trickster at all because Sam, at his core, is exactly like his father. John would never listen to anyone. Not Bobby or Missouri or Daniel Elkins. That's why he kept having a falling out with everyone. Sam didn't learn his lesson and he shut Bobby out when Dean died. The boys have got to unlearn that basic instinct they have to be martyrs for one another before they can be whole again and fight demons effectively. It's no easy feat with the rift still wide open between them. Dean couldn't let Sam back in, even in his amnesiac state. Too much anger because they don't understand each other.

 

[hyzmarca]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

Remember last year when the trickster tried to point out to Sam how much he needed to get over his obsession with Dean's fate. Even with months of new memories about how this would effect him, he learned nothing from it. In fact I think in some ways it drove him further (willing to become immortal organ needed monster), ect...

Who wouldn't want to become an immortal organ-needing monster? With recent advances in tissue culturing, the ability to grow new organs from scratch would exist long before their old ones wore out. And the fortune they would make patenting and selling human immortality is sufficient to keep them living the good life for a every long time.

Burying Doc Benton's journal is probably the stupidest mistake that they've ever made.

 

[Reverend]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

This episode freaked me out a little as it features two of my own personal nightmares. In my long and checkered job history I've been both a technical helpdesk agent and a lift engineer. So seeing a lift related accident (of which I have heard many real horror stories!) and seeing someone trapped in helpdesk hell was hitting a little closer to home than usual.

 

[mswood]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

Dorian

I don't think I would say Sam is at his core as bad as John. He has shown throughout the show (even when things have gotten really bad) he will at the very least listen to others. We never really got that from John.

He is though of course far closer in personality to John then to Dean.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Re: Supernatural 4x17 "It's a Terrible Life" SPOILERS & discussion thr

I didn't mean Sam was "bad," but more that he shares John's pathological stubborness and John's unfortunate tendencies to isolate himself and become single minded when he's suffered extreme loss. If only an adult John had had an adult Dean as a friend when he lost Mary, his life might not have been so tragically sad. Sam had Dean when Jess was murdered and thus didn't fly off the deep end. When Dean died, however, Sam completely rejected Bobby's help.