Supermen or Just a Bunch of Worthless Clones

[Jason K Albee]

Hitler wanted to create a race of super humans. Many movies like Star Trek, these supermen are portrayed as having no moral compass. In “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,” these enhanced humans act like cruel dictators, but in real life these fears are maybe misplaced.

Our society has become very specialized. We have many occupations that people can choose from. Everyone is born with some kind of talent that is of great value to them and to the society. Some are good at sports. Some are good at science. Some are good at fixing things. Some are good at programming. The list goes on and on.

Fashion, on the other hand, has to do with what is hot or trendy. If an athlete or a celebrity wears something new, everyone has to have it. All through the eighties and the nineties, Michael Jordon would wear a particular pair of shoes and all the kids would be wearing the exact same thing kind like a clone.

Now if parents were able to choose the height, the eye color, and any other feature of their child, we could end up with a lot of Michael Jordon’s. Now one Michael Jordon is great, but a million? Now that basketball is covered, who is going to do all the other occupations?

Jason K Albee
Novelist

 

[sojourner]

Because, you know, eye color is the first decision in creating a perfect basketball player....


sniff! sniff! this post smells suspicious.

 

[Kaijima]

Applying fashion to people building is definitely very dangerous territory. It's just like the very real danger that's been discussed re: finding genetic causes for at least part of homosexuality - in a world where vast numbers of people are still homophobic, tons of parents would push the "no homo" button on their baby customization panel to enforce their fears and social mores on their child's sexuality.

More broadly, people can be so obsessed with how they appear to others and extend that to how their children make them appear to others, it is a recipe for disaster. There was actually an episode of the original Twilight Zone about this exact idea. An awkward young girl grows up in a society where, at a certain age, children "graduate" to fashionable adulthood by accepting a mysterious medical treatment that alters their body image to one of 18 generic looks pre-determined as the "perfect" selection of human forms. The most disturbing part is that by the end, she submits, surrenders, and takes her place among her identical sisters to join perfection.

Because the capacity to adjust genetic makeup of offspring could be used for massive good, such as editing out genetic diseases and pre-dispositions to problems like obesity, it's definitely a technology that the world shouldn't turn away from in fear. There would have to be careful checks and balances though, to avoid selfish parents using the science to pay for "fashion babies".

Unfortunately, since all systems can be undermined, I'd bet good money that in such a future, there would be some sort of illegal trade in customizing children in ways that aren't medically beneficial. You can practically see the future tabloid headline now - "SECRET RING OF TRUST FUND MOTHERS ORDER GAGGLE OF DESIGNER BABIES."

 

[scotpens]

. . . sniff! sniff! this post smells suspicious.

I don’t know . . . There’s no link. It doesn’t look as if the OP is trying to sell something. Unless he’s selling designer babies.

 

[sojourner]

Then again, he has only made one other post since making this (and a duplicate) thread.

 

[Jadzia]

An awkward young girl grows up in a society where, at a certain age, children "graduate" to fashionable adulthood by accepting a mysterious medical treatment that alters their body image to one of 18 generic looks pre-determined as the "perfect" selection of human forms.

Because the capacity to adjust genetic makeup of offspring could be used for massive good, such as editing out genetic diseases and pre-dispositions to problems like obesity, it's definitely a technology that the world shouldn't turn away from in fear.

The lines between these two can easily be blurred. An "imperfect" form could be seen as a kind of disease, that requires treatment. People who don't submit are obviously mentally impaired (a symptom of their imperfection), and the decision needs to be made for them.

 

[KJbushway]

Yes, many people are a benefit to their society, however, you always have those that can be lead to a bad way of life from an early age. Power corrupts most.

 

[Distorted Humor]

If I cloned a million Summer Glau's, would there really be people complaining? (Or for the females, a million George Cloonies?

 

[Doom Shepherd]

If I cloned a million Summer Glau's, would there really be people complaining?

Only if they're one-to-a-customer.

 

[Distorted Humor]

If I cloned a million Summer Glau's, would there really be people complaining?

Only if they're one-to-a-customer.

Snort....

 

[Roland Deschain]

It would be invariably misused by a lot of people...

Although if I were to be perfectly honest I would like to see a society dominated by people of a rational scientific and artistic socialist libertarian mindset. The social system would be built purely on rationality without vested interests or ideological doctrine. Scientists would develop new incredible technologies like robots to do all the work no one else wants to do, such as cooking, sewerage treatment, form filling and so on.

The standard authoritarian finger wagger you have in todays society would be in minority, the politician, the corporate banker would be without a voice. Nicholas Sarkozy for example would just be ignored outright by the majority, he wouldn't get anywhere in this society. Everyone would have a built in BS detector. The schmoozing tactics of todays corporate elite would be met with disdain or outright opprobrium. Extroverted social falsity would be consigned to oblivion.Excellent social services would be in place and taxes would be spent correctly and fairly.

Corruption and greed wouldn't exist because your typical rational would consider such things to be base instincts unworthy of being followed in contrast to scientific or artistic endeavour in addition to looking out for ones fellow human being for the perfect functioning of society.

 

[Shatnertage]

What's a socialist libertarian? Isn't that a contradiction in terms? A socialist believes in a centrally-directed economy that minimizes private sector waste, while a libertarian believes that market solutions with minimal if any government intervention can deliver the greatest good for the largest sector of the population.

All you've said is that you want to live in a utopia without saying how you'll get there, or allocate limited resources. If someone exhibited "extroverted social falsity" would they be forcibly removed from society? Subject to "reeducation?"

And no one likes cooking? Tell that to the thousands of men and women who've got a passion for food. I can see that maybe people don't get pumped up about a career in sewerage treatment, but cooking? At its best it's a sublime art, and for many cultures a basic expression of love.

Unless you've got a plan to change human nature, I'm afraid corruption and greed will be with us a long time. One man's greed is another's honest ambition, of course, and one man's blissful rejection of the rat race is another man's sloth. And, unfortunately, without some kind of police power I don't see how you'll realistically stop people from trying to take shortcuts or lord it over their fellow citizens.

If you're interested in reading a classic article about "rationality" and society, try Hayek's The Use of Knowledge in Society. It might be kind of dry but it does a good job of laying out the difference between planning and spontaneous order.

Sorry to get off on a tangent there, but that just seemed to beg for a response. I really came in here because I saw the title in the main forum and thought of this classic:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cE1fzfOogo[/yt]

 

[Myasishchev]

Hitler wanted to create a race of super humans. Many movies like Star Trek, these supermen are portrayed as having no moral compass. In “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,” these enhanced humans act like cruel dictators, but in real life these fears are maybe misplaced.

I would expect they are. Who would engineer antisocial tendencies into a designer child?

The actual, rational fear is that genetically engineered children would outcompete naturally born ones ninety percent of the time, and become a new overclass. Considering the expense likely to be involved, you'd have a genetic predisposition for success combined with inherited wealth, and wind up with a far more ossified social order than we have even at present.

There's also the potential problem of a long-lived cohort of people (with active periods surpassing natural humans by a significant margin, indefinite lifespan presumably being one of the top goals of any germ-line genetic engineering). They would naturally come to wield highly disproportionate power over their more mortal contemporaries.

 

[Roland Deschain]

What's a socialist libertarian? Isn't that a contradiction in terms? A socialist believes in a centrally-directed economy that minimizes private sector waste, while a libertarian believes that market solutions with minimal if any government intervention can deliver the greatest good for the largest sector of the population.

All you've said is that you want to live in a utopia without saying how you'll get there, or allocate limited resources. If someone exhibited "extroverted social falsity" would they be forcibly removed from society? Subject to "reeducation?"

And no one likes cooking? Tell that to the thousands of men and women who've got a passion for food. I can see that maybe people don't get pumped up about a career in sewerage treatment, but cooking? At its best it's a sublime art, and for many cultures a basic expression of love.

Unless you've got a plan to change human nature, I'm afraid corruption and greed will be with us a long time. One man's greed is another's honest ambition, of course, and one man's blissful rejection of the rat race is another man's sloth. And, unfortunately, without some kind of police power I don't see how you'll realistically stop people from trying to take shortcuts or lord it over their fellow citizens.

If you're interested in reading a classic article about "rationality" and society, try Hayek's The Use of Knowledge in Society. It might be kind of dry but it does a good job of laying out the difference between planning and spontaneous order.

Sorry to get off on a tangent there, but that just seemed to beg for a response. I really came in here because I saw the title in the main forum and thought of this classic:

No there isn't a contradiction unless you like to think in terms of binary logic. The system was tried out in the Kibbutz but failed eventually due to the effects of rotational leadship. Essentially under such a system you wouldn't work in a heirarchical set up, institutions would be decentralized and would be based in the community rather than having layers of bureacracy to protect the ruling classes from those they're meant to serve in the so called democracies we have now. If they don't serve the interests of the people they're out immediately, they're directly accountable and wouldn't essentially be servants of the financial elite. As for the socialist aspect, yeah basically people would feel a common bond with each other, as one large family of humans, if someone fell on hard times there would be welfare systems to help them through and people wouldn't complain about paying taxes towards them because the budgets would be determined on the basis of the consensus of the people rather than that of a ruling class. Private interests would come second to those of the public if such interests conflicted with or undermined the functioning of the society. To simplify the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. I know that such thinking is alien in the USA because you have a massive indoctrination system to make you feel that anything equivalent to feelings of empathy for the less fortunate somehow entails the introduction of a Stalinist system. Like with the idea of a Healthcare system in the states, the massive resistance on the part not just of insurance companies but of half of ordinary americans would indicate this.

In case you didn't notice my whole post was about changing human nature through genetic engineering. And it would be my ideal world. And yes the ends don't justify the means. But I can tell this is going to be one of those 1000 page + internet arguments where one side goes nananana I can't hear you so I'll give you the last word that you probably so richly desire because I want to enjoy life rather than spend time trotting out examples and counter arguments like a lawyer in court. I have things to do man!

 

[sojourner]

^Yet you took the time to put up a wall of text to try and insure you had the last word.