Superman Vs. The Elite...

[Saul]

The speech where he talks about how good it is to cut lose, how it feels excellent and will accomplish everything so expediently?

No no, I don't condone that "cutting lose" acting. I mean where he talks about how we should be responsible with the powers superheores have and this line

"Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting. Ever."

Superman also says Wanker. Hehe!

 

[Guy Gardener]

The dignity to be castrated by Superrobots while you sleep?

Superman had two speachs. The first where he was pretending to be a psycho to scare people into thinking of what a world with a maniac Superman might be like, followed by a just kidding apology I'm still the same hero you remember which is where you got your quote from.

Short order... Superman knows how to lie.

 

[Showdown]

Superman vs the Elite Review (Massive Spoilers)

Great movie. One of the best Superman animated films. The action is top notch. The voice talents are great. George Newbern is excellent as Superman. The Elite are fantastic villains. I think they should be a permanent part of Superman's rogues gallery. There are a few things I dislike, but nothing that drags the movie down.

Dislikes:
- The art style. It's not too distracting, and I know why they used it, but I would prefer a less cartoony look.
- I wished they would address why Superman couldn't take away Atomic Skull's powers like the Elite, or why the people didn't ask the Justice System why they didn't execute Atomic Skull. Just add a line saying that Superman can't just remove his powers. And say the State put Atomic Skull on death row, is unable to kill him, or just want use him as a power source.
- Superman should have shown some regrets for Atomic Skull. More people died. Did he do the right thing? Was he wrong? Should he have gone further? Questioning and doubting would make him more human. He should also come to the conclusion he's right, thus further.

Likes:
+ Superman and Lois Lane. It feels like a real relationship. They argue, make jokes, and help each other. It makes him feel more like a person than a bunch of superpowers jammed together.
+ Manchester Black. I really like this guy. He is funny, has great personality, and a relatable motive. I like how he truly believes he's a hero and he's doing the right thing. Part of me I want to see him reformed and fight along side Superman again. And give him normal color hair and lips.
+ Having problems outside the United States. There's a whole world out there filled with good people and bad people hurting them, just like real life.
+ The kid wanting Manchester Black to kill Atomic Skull. His dad died protecting him. I could feel his pain and anger. Atomic Skull was on a murderous rampage, of coarse people will want him to die.
+ I heard that the creators wanted to put Lex Luthor in the film as well. I'm glad they didn't. We don't need him in every Superman film, and it would have been too crowded with him here.

This film is like one my favorite Batman animated films, Under the Red Hood. Both films deals with the subject on how far a hero should go for justice. Superman and Batman has similar standards: don't kill. The Elite and Jason are similar too: break the rules, destroy, and kill for justice. The main villains looked up to the heroes at one point and worked together. Jason and Manchester has troubled pasts, and through Ra's al Ghul and Manchester's sister, we learn more about them. There are also established villains like Joker and Atomic Skull, who kill people. Black Mask and those dictators trying to maintain their power / territories while the main villains fight them. Both heroes have their families, and talk to them about their problems with them.

I would say Batman UtRH and Superman VtE both are really good, each did something better than the other. In Batman, there was a better connection with the villain, and the final battle between Batman and Jason felt more personal. In Batman, all we get is one line saying he wants to kill, but it will make him as bad as the villains. In Superman, we get to see it. In a small scene when he defeated Atomic Skull, and his fist was shaking, showing him holding back. At the end, we see what would happen if he becomes an anti-hero or villain, and how scary he can be.

Bit off topic...
While I enjoy superhero movies that are just pure entertainment, it's also good to see them explore ideas. When done badly, we get stuff Hawk and Dove from the JLU. These guys are absolutely terrible. Probably some of the worst superheroes, no, some of the worst protagonists I have ever have the displeasure of seeing. I could go on and on, but I won't. When done well, we get good shows like "A Better World". In Batman UtRH and Superman VtE, it's done pretty well. How far is too far? Our heroes are clearly right. In Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths, they're not. Superman and Batman disagree on a controversial subject. Superman wants to go, Batman wants to stay. Both gave their reasons and respect each other. At the end Superman didn't call Batman a coward or try to drag him along, and Batman didn't try to stop Superman either. I like the president and his arguments too. We are human, not bullet proof aliens that can fly supersonic speeds. Statements from both sides makes sense and given equal weight. At the end, who is right? Maybe there is no right answer.

For the few that may not have seen it, here's the JL:CoTE video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY6K-aY4yBk

IMHO, Superman vs the Elite is a great movie, and gets an A from me.

 

[Christopher]

Finally got around to seeing this, and I really liked it. I really like the story; I love the way it confronts the morality of lethal force and reaffirms the validity of Superman's stance on the issue. The climax showed very clearly that Superman doesn't avoid killing because he's weak or ineffectual -- he has the power to do whatever he damn well pleases, but he chooses to keep that power under the most stringent control, and that takes incredible strength of character and conviction. I really love his speech at the end about how living in a dream world isn't a bad thing. It could be a little corny, but by that point he's really earned it. Terrific writing by Joe Kelly.

Even so, Manchester Black wasn't reduced to a one-dimensional straw man. The others were a bit simplistic in their portrayal, but Black was someone you could believe was really trying, in his own twisted way, to do what he thought was right. Although of course the people who are convinced their actions are right no matter what are the most dangerous ones of all, because they'll never stop themselves.

The acting was good, although Pauley Perette was no Dana Delany. But George Newbern was great. When he was playing "Dark Superman" at the climax there... wow. He's never sounded so impressive and scary and powerful. That was really superb voice acting, a revelation from an actor I've always thought of as simply workmanlike.

I was also pleasantly surprised by how great the animation was. From the initial clips, it looked cruder than what I was used to from these movies, more TV-quality than feature-quality, and I said as much earlier in this thread; but now I recognize that I was wrong. The sketchier art style was simply a stylistic choice, and I soon got used to it; the actual animation is top-notch, done by Telecom Animation Film -- a subsidiary of TMS Entertainment, which I consider the best traditional-animation studio in the world. (They're famous for Akira and Lupin III, and also did a lot of the best-made episodes of the DC Animated Universe, as well as Batman Beyond: The Return of the Joker.) I could tell just from watching it, from the stylistic touches, the fluidity of movement and character expressiveness, that it was TMS's work. Not to mention that the way the "Hat" character was portrayed here reminded me of Jigen from Lupin III.

Another nice surprise was composer Robert J. Kral reusing his Superman theme from Superman/Doomsday. That was a somewhat mediocre debut for the DC Universe movie series, but it did have good music, and I was really pleased to hear the reprise of that theme. It is nice to have the occasional bits of continuity between these various movies, even if it's just musical continuity. (I'm pretty sure Justice League: Doom reused a theme from an earlier movie too, but I forget which one.)

 

[Christopher]

You know, I was watching this again today, and it occurred to me that the final act of this was kind of a more serious equivalent to all those bizarre Silver Age stories where Superman acted like a total creep for most of the issue, and then in the end we found out that it was all just a trick he'd been playing in order to teach Lois or Jimmy a lesson.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Well, the final fight was complete pageantry for the cameras.

Heat vision from space while they're sleeping.

Actually, when you consider heat vision from space while they're sleeping, then Superman does everything for spectacle.

Doomsday can't fly.

Pick him up by an ankle.

Throw him at the moon.

seriously.

Out of earth orbit.

That's what the Cyborg Superman did with Doomsday's corpse. Just tied him to a rock and kicked him into deep space.

 

[Christopher]

^Err, maybe you missed how the whole point of the story was about how Superman doesn't kill?

 

[Shazam!]

Manchester Black (and his Irish / Scottish / Northern England accent) and pretty much any other United Kingdom reference was so cringeworthingly awful and cliche that it completely took me out of this one.

 

[Guy Gardener]

^Err, maybe you missed how the whole point of the story was about how Superman doesn't kill?

No sir, the point of the story is that he knocks them unconscious and then takes the Elite to his Fortress of Solitude where he nonconsensually removes their super powers.

Which is rape and vivisection.

Is rape and vivisection a mature middleground between the us criminal justice system and arbitrary random executions?

Possibly not.

Or were you talking about what I said about Doomsday?

Because Superman killed that guy.

Sure it didn't keep.

But you know what they say, it's the thought that counts.

And as far as taking them to the North Pole goes...

How far "up" does Canada go before it turns into Denmark or Russia?

Because once Superman hoists them out of US Airspace they are innocent in the eyes of Canada, or any of the 6 other countries that make up the Arctic other than the US (and Canada) and whoever Superman is not paying rent to up by Santas workshop...

Superman could be charged for kidnapping or human trafficking.

And if someone else owns the land that he built the fortress on, doesn't that mean that they own the fortress?

Superman is a Squatter.

 

[JD]

Just watched this for the first time yesterday. I really enjoyed it. I thought it brought up some pretty interesting points about Superman in our modern age. I'd say it was one of the best DCAU movies.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The problem with these movies is that they're sourcing real comics for their scripts.

Sooner or later someone is going to be politically pressured into picking an awful story to draw upon, again.

 

[Christopher]

^Don't see how that makes a difference. Any series is going to have better installments and worse installments, regardless of their origin. Whether you decide to create an original story based on idea X or adapt an existing story based on idea Y, you're still making a decision. And some decisions are better than others. It's just the nature of life.

 

[JD]

I was surprised to see them do Flashpoint. I didn't think to reaction to it was all that good.

 

[Mr Light]

Just saw the movie and it was good! I actually haven't read the comics yet, but I'm definitely going to now. Alas I was spoiled that he fakes their deaths.

I definitely did not enjoy Flashpoint, and I'm not crazy about them making a movie out of it.

 

[JD]

It just seems to me that they would want to do more of the old classic stories before they did something that recent that didn't even get a very good reaction. It seems kind of weird to me that they are going from the beloved classic The Dark Knight Returns to the mediocre at best (at least from what I read on the web, I haven't read it myself) Flashpoint.

 

[Mr Light]

They're probably doing Flashpoint to push the New 52 comics, I'm sure the movie will end as a nice big plug for that continuity.