Has anyone seen that Superman TV musical from the early 70s? I've seen clips, but something like that could really put all this into perspective.
Superman: The Reboot --- Its official
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A Clockwork Lim
Lieutenant Commander
Re: Superman: The Reboot --- Its offcial
I'd be happy with Brainiac as the villain and the "origin story" part of the film emphasizing his creation and involvement in the destruction of Krypton, much like how the animated series protrayed him. I think that would be a really interesting way of doing a film.
Those elements are pretty dark without making Superman himself dark. Supes would also have to use his brains more than his brawn when battling him, the villain is pretty familiar to people interested in the comics, and it gives a view of Krypton and Kryptonians without seeming as forced or re-played as seeing Jor-El sending Kal-El off into the cosmos.
I'd be happy with Brainiac as the villain and the "origin story" part of the film emphasizing his creation and involvement in the destruction of Krypton, much like how the animated series protrayed him. I think that would be a really interesting way of doing a film.
Those elements are pretty dark without making Superman himself dark. Supes would also have to use his brains more than his brawn when battling him, the villain is pretty familiar to people interested in the comics, and it gives a view of Krypton and Kryptonians without seeming as forced or re-played as seeing Jor-El sending Kal-El off into the cosmos.
If IRC S:R's production costs were mostly weighed down with the various contracts and attempts over the years. Tim Burton, Nicholas Cage, Kevin Smith, S-shield throwing stars, giant robot spiders, black super suits, etc. etc. All actors, writers, and more that had to have contract obligations paid even though they were not used. Millions and millions of dollars lame ideas and attempts all dragging behind S:R's own merits. By its little self without all of this stuff dragging it down, S:R probably did pretty well.
I think most of the criticism of SR's box office came when it was clear that The Dark Knight was going to be one of the top-grossing films of all time. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's when the reboot was announced. After a year of dithering, looking at Batman's grosses convinced TPTB that they had settled for less with Superman.
It's hard to blame them. Iron Man would have been a strong contended for top grossing movie of the summer, in any other year. This year, the superheroes dominated, so I think they're looking to duplicate that kind of success with Supes.
It's hard to blame them. Iron Man would have been a strong contended for top grossing movie of the summer, in any other year. This year, the superheroes dominated, so I think they're looking to duplicate that kind of success with Supes.
Returns cost $200-205m after the 19 years of productions costs, which were $60-70m, are removed. It therefore broke roughly even at the US box office, hence the dissapointment. Now after WW figures, DVD and merchandising its safe to say they made some money. However, expectations were so high, and rightfully so, that is viewed by the studio as a creative and financial dissapointment.
Hence Donner-verse is bye-bye: Reboot
Although I'm not for "dark Superman".
While I enjoyed Superman Returns and was looking forward to Superman: Man of Steel (or whatever they eventually ended up calling the sequel) I will probably go see a reboot, its probably still a few years away anyways so I won't get hyped up. Would also like to see Brandon Routh return to his role...he was great in Zack and Miri.
He was indeed (one of the few things I actively really liked about that movie), but I can't imagine the powers that be keeping Routh if they were going to re-start the rest of the cinematic Superman universe - it would just be weird. Then again, what do I know? Stranger things have happened in Hollywood...
Not neccesarily. Superman Returns earned $200 million domestically at the box office. X-Men: The Last Stand earned a little over $215 million. Not that big of a difference. Also, X3's budget inflated when Brett Ratner came onboard, from $175 million to a reported $200-225 million, averaging just around the same budget expenses for Returns. So X3 was a financial success, but just barely, and it hardly "trounced" Returns. If anything, the films were even at the box office. Critically, though, that's another story...
^ That's for sure. As disappointing as X3 was compared to the previous two instalments, I'd still rather watch it a dozen times in a row than subject myself to a repeat viewing of Returns.
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Ah, I must've been thinking of international numbers because I recalled a number in the 400's. I'm too lazy to research this, so I'll take your word for it. However, my point still stands that X-3 made more. It had a higher budget, then again it was paying 3rd movie salaries to Halley Berry, Patrick Stuart, The Wolverine Guy, Ian McWhatsits, and so on.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Re: Superman: The Reboot --- Its offcial
I think a "Dark Superman" is a bad way to go, but to show that Superman, like everyone else, has a "dark side" (sorry, people for the pun) is a valid way to approach the character.
Superman in the DCAU (aka the "Timm-verse") was all the good things about Superman, but also very human, and was capable of sometimes being a little less than perfect. He still did the right thing in the end though.
I remember one memorable bit in JLU when Luthor was goading Superman, trying to get Supes to kill him (as a different dimension's Superman had done earlier in the season) and forever ruin his reputation. He had Luthor by the throat and had his eye-beams heating up and it looked like he was about to do it when he stopped, got it together, and said:
"I am NOT that man...right now I wish to God I WAS, but I'm not..."
Very human AND very Superman at the same time...
I think a "Dark Superman" is a bad way to go, but to show that Superman, like everyone else, has a "dark side" (sorry, people for the pun) is a valid way to approach the character.
Superman in the DCAU (aka the "Timm-verse") was all the good things about Superman, but also very human, and was capable of sometimes being a little less than perfect. He still did the right thing in the end though.
I remember one memorable bit in JLU when Luthor was goading Superman, trying to get Supes to kill him (as a different dimension's Superman had done earlier in the season) and forever ruin his reputation. He had Luthor by the throat and had his eye-beams heating up and it looked like he was about to do it when he stopped, got it together, and said:
"I am NOT that man...right now I wish to God I WAS, but I'm not..."
Very human AND very Superman at the same time...
Re: Superman: The Reboot --- Its offcial
You can have some dark elements to the film without making the character dark. I would definitely want a much more family friendly film than some of the recent efforts. When I saw Superman returns, my wife and I were hoping for children and we sat in front of a father and his son who was maybe four or five. The kid giggled and squealed every time Supes came on the screen and spent the whole time asking his dad questions about how many people Superman can help, not how many he can punch.
Now that I am the proud father of films, I would love to have a decent film that wouldn't give my kids nightmares if I took them to see it.
You can have some dark elements to the film without making the character dark. I would definitely want a much more family friendly film than some of the recent efforts. When I saw Superman returns, my wife and I were hoping for children and we sat in front of a father and his son who was maybe four or five. The kid giggled and squealed every time Supes came on the screen and spent the whole time asking his dad questions about how many people Superman can help, not how many he can punch.
Now that I am the proud father of films, I would love to have a decent film that wouldn't give my kids nightmares if I took them to see it.
Close. I wouldn't argue a rounding up but the actual number since we are on the topic is $391m.
Keep in mind that is not $391m that goes entirely back to the studio. Warners did not net $391million from Returns, that is the gross amount in ticket sales. Studios have a profiit sharing system with the theaters. The first 2 weeks typically favor the studio, at least US domestically, the heaviest in a 60/40 or 70/30 style split. It then tapers down over the movies run. They also have to do this internationally although I've yet to hear if its similar, better or worse.
This is why Warners has been dissapointed with Returns, because well its theatrical returns(no pun intended) were not that great when its all said and done.
Bottom line. Superman Returns did not make/net the studio $391m and that is where people get confused. The devil is in the details and I tried to give them in a condensed concise way. Hope it helped.
Re: Superman: The Reboot --- Its offcial
Superman seemed pretty dark, and definitely creepy, in SR, what with stalking Lois Lane and all. I shudder to think how much more darker the character could be.
Superman seemed pretty dark, and definitely creepy, in SR, what with stalking Lois Lane and all. I shudder to think how much more darker the character could be.
Re: Superman: The Reboot --- Its offcial
People always seem to quote that part as being something wrong with Superman. The point I got from it though was that at that point in the film he was so completely out of touch with his humanity that he doesn't even understand that he is acting incorrectly. It stressed his isolation from the people around him.
People always seem to quote that part as being something wrong with Superman. The point I got from it though was that at that point in the film he was so completely out of touch with his humanity that he doesn't even understand that he is acting incorrectly. It stressed his isolation from the people around him.
Re: Superman: The Reboot --- Its offcial
Jesus. That in and of itself tells you -- that isn't our Superman.
Superman doesn't look to humanity to learn how to behave. Superman leads the way. He is something for the rest of us to aspire to.
My Superman is anyway. I didn't recognize that sulking adolescent in SR.
Jesus. That in and of itself tells you -- that isn't our Superman.
Superman doesn't look to humanity to learn how to behave. Superman leads the way. He is something for the rest of us to aspire to.
My Superman is anyway. I didn't recognize that sulking adolescent in SR.
Re: Superman: The Reboot --- Its offcial
Right, but that was the point of the movie. He is NOT our Superman at the beginning of the film, but becomes so by the end when he rediscovers his humanity in the midst of the crisis with Luthor and the kidnapping of Lois and her son.
The problem is that the setup is completely lacking. The film has a problem in its execution IMO, not in the story itself.
Right, but that was the point of the movie. He is NOT our Superman at the beginning of the film, but becomes so by the end when he rediscovers his humanity in the midst of the crisis with Luthor and the kidnapping of Lois and her son.
The problem is that the setup is completely lacking. The film has a problem in its execution IMO, not in the story itself.
Re: Superman: The Reboot --- Its offcial
I just had a complete epiphany!
The reason that Superman is such a deush, and disconnected from the people around him and even repeating the same phrases over and over again, like reality is on a loop is that Kal has been in Space in a box for 5 years in the same way that Tom Hanks spent a couple years on an island talking to a coconut in castaway.
He's completely batshit.
Then again considering that he is insane, maybe he's hallucinated his return to earth many times during the voyage to krypton and back that he is not completely sure that this is really earth and he's not just falling deeper into the grips of space maddness in his dinky space ship during it's massive interstellar journey...
If he erased Lois' memory of their love affair at the end of the second movie... Why doesn't lois think that she was raped, since she doesn't remember consenting to shagging the guy?
I just had a complete epiphany!
The reason that Superman is such a deush, and disconnected from the people around him and even repeating the same phrases over and over again, like reality is on a loop is that Kal has been in Space in a box for 5 years in the same way that Tom Hanks spent a couple years on an island talking to a coconut in castaway.
He's completely batshit.
Then again considering that he is insane, maybe he's hallucinated his return to earth many times during the voyage to krypton and back that he is not completely sure that this is really earth and he's not just falling deeper into the grips of space maddness in his dinky space ship during it's massive interstellar journey...
If he erased Lois' memory of their love affair at the end of the second movie... Why doesn't lois think that she was raped, since she doesn't remember consenting to shagging the guy?
I'm with you there.
