Supergirl - Season Four

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Kai "the spy", Jul 17, 2018.

  1. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As you see, in order for the showrunners to justify their own views on all things immigration, nuance--reason--must be jettisoned in favor of creating the Ultimate Boogeyman. I mentioned this a few days ago, but notice how any of Lockwood's reasoning / early justifications are just a thing of the past--he barely dips his toes in that line of dialogue. Moreover, up to this point, have any of this show's heroes (or anyone else) ever expressed even a moment of genuine sympathy for Lockwood's wife being murdered? J'onn ultimately blamed Lockwood for whatever pain he experienced, but there is a reason for that, and its called selective morality; if one hates Lockwood the Boogeyman, then the murder of his wife (who had nothing to do with the actions of Lockwood) is fine, or not to be the object of sympathy.
    In contrast, we know how the series has treated alien characters victimized or killed by the CoL or anyone else (as they should), but more to the point, it was certainly more sympathetic (than not) to Manchester Black as he murdered many out of revenge for his loss. That is certainly making a point--just not the one the showrunners intended.

    Of course, his being motivated by revenge is merely an explanation, not a justification. Lockwood is just as (increasingly) immoral as Manchester Black, who was simply a mass murderer--but unlike Lockwood, MB was largely handled with an air of reluctance (J'onn) and certainly nowhere near the level of outrage & aggression we see in the case of Lockwood.

    The murderer was in the Lockwood home, and considering the look that the murderer flashed at Ben Lockwood as she was leaving the scene of the crime, that did not appear to be a case of self defense. Ask yourself the question: if you retuned home and someone left your loved one on the floor--dead, then flashed a look at you as if to say, "you asked for it"--are you going to question the circumstances of your loved one's murder at that moment? This is no excuse for Ben Lockwood to kill anyone in an act of revenge, merely addressing your questioning why his wife was murdered.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  2. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But that IS his excuse - the same one given Manchester black. If the point was to show that both sides are flawed to the point of violence being wrong and that one is no better then the other, and it's actions that make one wrong, not ideology then it would fit, but as you said, there is an inate inconsistency with the way things are approached.
     
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  3. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I meant excuse from the audience point of view--that he can say whatever motivates him, but its not a valid justification for the worst of his acts.

    Yep.
     
  4. Phoenix219

    Phoenix219 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    On top of it all, J'onn's entire arc culminates with the lesson Violence is the Answer.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The wife killing alien lady, could have also killed Lockwood himself instead of running away, but that was not her goal, she wanted Ben to feel the loss and pain of a missing spouse.

    Killing both of them would have solved a lot of problems.

    Killing just the missus, stirred up a world of trouble.

    Also...

    Where is the Alien's husband? Surely a televised vivisection would have smoked her out?

    1. He's already been murdered.

    2. The internment system is so poorly regulated/documented, that although he is definitely a prisoner somewhere in America, god help us if any can pin down exactly which gulag that he is stewing in.
     
  6. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Am I the only one who had to look up the term "rendition"?

    Lockwood told the DEO agents to rendition all the other aliens in the warehouse where the Brevik was hiding.

    The 2nd meaning of rendition is...the practice of sending a foreign criminal or terrorist suspect covertly to be interrogated in a country with less rigorous regulations for the humane treatment of prisoners.

    So "where is the husband" is a valid question. The next question is, where did she hide their kids?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    So after the husband escapes, and after Lockwood has killed that particular alien's wife, it's a grrrr man primal urges battle royale between the MEN with fridged wives?

    Before the mommy died, baby Lockwood was looking like he was going to shame his dad into reconsidering his policies, which is now never going to happen, because the rage of a child is so much greater than the rage of a spouse.

    Why isn't Brainiac using historical records?

    Maybe he's compartmentalized what he remembers about the "present" (almost everything) in his mind, so that time can unfold naturally without a hand on it's rudder?

    ...After he kicked Win into the future.

    Did Brainiac lie to Win about his destiny as Super Steve Jobs?

    If Win isn't there in the past to invent and distribute his revolutionary technology, then it's not going to be invented or distributed and Winslow is just a shmuck out of time.

    There might have been a different reason to remove Win from the Board.

    Winslow is, or was Monarch on Earth 39 until Brainiac interviened?

    Winslow is so unimpressive, that he was the most unimportant part of Supergirl's life for Brainiac to co-opt.

    Hmm?

    So Win was supposed to be with Nia?

    Cool.
     
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  8. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not to justify the act itself, but Lockwood has just taken her husband and sent him off to be tortured. She could have been in the house for vengeance or to find out where her husband is. The murderer could have been doing some "interrogating" of her own. Lockwood brought his wife's murder upon himself.
     
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  9. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I dunno, how am I supposed to feel about a Nazi SS officer's wife being murdered by a Jewish woman? Lockwood's wife supported her husband, knowing he's a child-murdering terrorist.

    How do you hold any sympathy to them versus their victims?
     
  10. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Supergirl
    Season 4 / episode 21 - "Red Dawn"


    SG/Kara: SG - So, Kara believes she can publish national security secrets...yeah, that's smart.
    It was clear Kara would try the "we're the same" move, but this series--if played straight--should have the majority of people reject that kind of

    The entire "she has to know" bit about Alex always plays as false drama, since the entire reason for the mind wipe was unnecessary in the first place, and its clear where this will go the moment she sees Kara in real danger.....oh...yeah.

    Comrade Kara: The reference to the boy, and any genetic memories of Kara's life is not enough to eliminate (or even challenge) her own personality, or belief system. But I guess Lex bumped her off as part of his "Lex the hero" ploy...if she's truly dead.

    Lena: Using an alien "truth seeker" on her own mother is the pit of unethical behavior--all to get Lockwood (more than helping James, as Lilian believed).

    "You wanted to save the human race." At least she admits that was Lockwood's true concern.

    James: Lena not telling James he would eventually experience similar reactions from the Harun-El is yet another less than honorable act on her part. Even if she was hoping to extract it before he suffered any irreversible effects, he had a right to know the potential risks.

    So, now he's all about keeping the power when the last episode had hi behaving as if he was not entirely thrilled with being nearly indestructible. The showrunners will never learn (or hire anyone) who understands / knows how to write for the character.

    Ben Lockwood / George Lockwood: So, Lockwood did not know he was a pawn of Lex. With the Harun-El slowly destroying him, there's still no guarantee he will abandon his original mission, which was born of his own experiences, not the string pulling of Lex.

    Brainy: Channeling (actually restoring) the programming / identities of the other Braniacs ("the fifth") was the most interesting plot from this episode. Now that he's taking on their beliefs/memories, I suppose this could be a set up for next season (even if he's "cured" in this season's finale), and possibly the return of any Legion characters, since they--knowing all about him--would have the best chance of essentially rebooting him to obtain the suppressed memory / identity.

    Alex: Predictably, Alex remembers the sister stuff just as Comrade Kara was moments away from defeating Supergirl, just as Supergirl's was "brought back" from the "dead" thanks to a bit of plot convenience.

    NOTES: Assuming Baker is working with Lex, if Lex is exposed, he too would be considered a war criminal in that attack, which means there will be that discussed vacancy in the Oval Office, and the person to fill that seat will be...…..

    For all of this season's hype of Lex finally appearing, I would hope he is not easily defeated; while he is chained to a rather thin plot, the character of Luthor (historically) is too good to be written off with easy solutions, or mistakes even the Scooby Doo gang could uncover in a day.

    Benoist's Red Daughter accent is terrible. Its as unconvincing as Elizabeth Olsen's accent for Scarlet Witch.

    The stunt work and FX...come on...spend a little dough on that.

    GRADE: C.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Tonight's episode was very effective. It was nice to see teen Kara & Alex again. The way Alex rediscovered her memories was too convenient, but it was emotionally effective when she remembered and tried to revive her sister. The "sunlight crawling from the plants" thing was weird, but pretty.

    Rebooted, ruthless Brainy was terrifying. I think that's partly just because I've seen how great a threat Brainiac(-1) could be in past productions, but a lot of it was due to Jesse Rath's chilling performance, and the contrast with his usual persona. His personality transformation was a captivating sequence, easily the scariest thing they've done on this show.

    Speaking of this show's history, what was with Kara saying she's been dealing with kryptonite for 15 years? Back at the start of the series less than 4 years ago, she didn't even know what kryptonite was. Although I guess maybe she was exaggerating to psych out Red Daughter?
     
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  12. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, that was simply amazing. Emotional, exciting, risky, and inventive. Certainly one of the better episodes of the entire series.

    Everything, and I mean everything, worked. I was on the edge of my seat at times, and on the edge of tears at others. They made the Alex memory wipe thing finally pay off in a major way, culminating in a beautiful and almost magical scene adapting one of my favorite moments in Superman lore: the bit in Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns, when a dying Superman clutches at the Earth and draws upon the stored solar energy from the surrounding vegetation to revive himself. (For some reason, despite teeing it up precisely, Zack Snyder didn't follow through with that scene in BvS, leaving it to more capable hands to employ to better effect tonight.)

    With all the balls they already have in the air, I can't believe they introduced this new major development with Brainy. I wonder if they aren't setting him up to be next season's big bad? Fascinating and unexpected choice, if so, and Rath does a great job playing this cold and cruelly calculating version of the character.

    Man, I need a cigarette.

    Looks like TREK_GOD_1's review was likely posted while I was composing this. Think I'll skip it this time -- he no doubt hated the episode for various idiosyncratic and obscure reasons, and I really don't need this buzz killed. :p
     
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  13. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree with the idea that Kara was trying to "psyche" Red Daughter over the kryptonite thing.

    I also found it interesting to see Eliza arrive on the scene.

    Kara and or Alex must have told Eliza not to mention her SG alter ego to mind wiped Alex.

    I wonder why a grieving Alex didn't freak our Red Daughter more than we saw, and I wonder if Red Daughter is really dead.

    Guess we'll find out next week.

    Is Brainy destined to be next season's big bad? Will that be the impetus to bring Wynn back from the future?

    Any bets that Lillian will die soon since she's told Lena she loved her?

    I liked how they made the "totally irrelevant Alex wants to adopt a baby" scenario central to why Alex got her memories of her ADOPTED sister's "true origins" back.
     
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  14. The Realist

    The Realist Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I wondered that, too. I really doubt it. Seems like there's still way too much to be mined with the character to kill her offscreen and so abruptly.
    As a vocal detractor of "baby boohoo" Alex, I have to agree with you.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I really doubt they'd kill her off so cavalierly off-camera.


    That occurred to me, but I hope not. I anticipate something more like Dreamer urging him to return to his true self, with their love saving him.

    It might be interesting if the big bad next year is Lex Luthor. If his plan succeeds, we could see President Lex.
     
  16. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I missed last week's episode (due to family interruption). It appears a lot transpired, like Kara getting caught by government officials and Ben Lockwood injecting himself with the serum.

    I've always liked the dynamic between Lena and Lilian. Sure, Lena used a baby truth seeker on her mother, but it was warranted. The poison was probably too much, but at least she had an antidote. :lol:
     
  17. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All too convenient.

    Because Comrade Kara is not regular Kara, so the worn trope of the evil clone suddenly having its own life/directives shifted to that of the original should not be a plot device here..

    A few viewers wondered about that, but it poses an obvious problem if she lives, but has a (forced) change of heart. .

    I predicted this might play into next season, but I still see it as an excuse for the Legion--or specifically Mon El to make another appearance in the attempt to stop/help Brainy.

    Ehh..I hope not. The series was not missing Wynn.

    Any bets that Lillian will die soon since she's told Lena she loved her?

    Alex still needs to be able to adopt a child. The character has no growth just being "agent" and being her sister's soundboard.

    ...and Captain Marginalized Olsen still has no character focus, even with his gaining superpowers---which flies in the face of his Guardian period, where he once felt he did not need powers to make a difference as a crimefighter.
     
  18. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "Alex?"



    Its not the "trope of the evil clone shifting to the original". She originally began her life with an "Alex" fixation that she did not understand. Lex Luthor lets her call him "Alex" without correction because he knows who Supergirl is and who the real Alex is. Komrade Kara doesn't find out who Alex is/could be until the above scene and KK's walls are not only covered with pictures of Kara and Lena, but Kara and ALex.



    Komrade Kara has imprinted upon Lex because of the name and reading the diary, seeing Kara's life makes KK doubt what her leader is telling her about Kara/Supergirl. Even that act which turned her to Lex's plan, the death of Mikhail does not have Kara's or Alex Danver's fingerprints on it so her Alex confusion has not been cleared.



    Just as she was taught to distrust and fight the USA over a few months, she could be taught to mistrust and fight Lex Luthor once the truth is uncovered.



    Why have someone as (Harunel ) super-powered JO on the show? The whole reason for TPTB to send Superman off planet was so she could have the stage alone for a while. I suspect JO will be de-supered next week just as the harunel kills off Ben.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  19. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Comrade Kara's life experiences are distinct from regular Kara; she has a history in another country, with an entirely different group of people, culture and the direct molding from Lex, so that is her real identity. Despite her artificial origins, it is still a real life lived, not simply psychological window dressing, or only knowing a single directive like the Terminator. For all she knows, the Alex/regular Kara thoughts could be considered planted (from Comrade's POV), and not some shadowy fragment of another life. The evil clone trope will be the only way Comrade Kara suddenly (conveniently) has a "Ah-Ha!" transformation.

    Then giving James powers was yet another go-nowhere sub plot for the character, since Eve shooting him for the purpose of Lex forcing Lena to use James as a test subject was initially sold as a "whodunit"/potential tragedy/PTSD for all of a minute, with the bigger takeaway being the introduction of his sister as the eventual girlfriend for Alex, but James as an enhanced being is less than a sideline story. He--the second billed character (and actor) on the show--has no developed voice or direction of his own regarding the powers (or anything else), which is the typically mishandled treatment of the James character.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  20. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Admiral

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    You know, I remember when DC rebooted Batwoman as a lesbian, several years ago. Suddenly there were all these vocal fans insisting that dealing with her personal life at all was "unnecessary" or "irrelevant" or "forced":

    "Why do they even have to address her sexual orientation at all? This is a superhero comic. I just want her to punch bad guys and stuff."

    Never mind Lois Lane, Steve Trevor, Mary Jane Watson, Reed and Sue, Scott and Jean, and the fact that superheroes and their supporting casts have had love interests and soapy personal subplots since "The Scarlet Pimpernel" at least. Somehow it's only when you're talking same-sex relationships that certain fanboys suddenly decide that this kinda thing has no place in a superhero show or comic.

    I'm getting a distinct deja vu vibe here.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019