• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Supergirl - Season 2

A few things:
1) The producers never had even the slightest intention of Alex being in any way an ambiguous character. The idea that her name signified some 'darker nature' was entirely fabricated by the fandom.

She was conceived to be exactly what we saw her as: Kara's sister, partner, and 'mentor figure'.

2) I believe Smallville's version of Lena, Tess Mercer, was used in a slightly villainous role at one point, essentially replacing her brother as a foil for Clark and Co.

3) I do think there's an opening and an opportunity to bring in other villains who are more directly and exclusively associated with the Kara Zor-El Supergirl (Satan Girl, the World-Killers, Simon Tycho, Blackstarr, Cyborg Superman [Zor-El], just to name a few), but I'd also love to see them tap some of the Linda Danvers/Matrix Supergirl's enemies, especially since they've already delved into the realm of the supernatural with Silver Banshee.
 
It would be interesting to see the show do its own version of villainous sorceress Selena from the Supergirl movie. That would definitely be a supernatural villain and the producers have already shown they like drawing ideas from the movie with using the Omegahedron.
 
One other thing:
CBS gave Supergirl a pretty large budget (14 million for the Pilot and 3 million per episode thereafter), but because it costs less on the whole to film in Vancouver, the show actually has a bigger budget for Season 2 (as per Sarah Schechter [at Comic-Con] via Supergirl Radio).
 
Agreed. I really don't understand this resistance some people have to the writers reimagining or repurposing some of these villains and storylines for this show. Superhero movies and TV series have been reimagining characters and storylines from the beginning in one way or another (even the supposedly more "faithful" ones), and this doesn't seem any different to me.

Well, I don't know about that. It used to be very rare for comic-book adaptations to adapt specific plotlines or reuse villains from other versions. It did go the other way, when the Superman comics borrowed Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, and kryptonite from the radio show (plus the Daily Planet from the newspaper strips and Superman's flight from the animated shorts), but adaptations usually told their own entirely original stories and created their own villains. The earliest instance I know of a superhero adaptation borrowing a villain was when the Superman radio series did a storyline around a robot very loosely based on the ones from the animated short The Mechanical Monsters, which had been released just weeks earlier. The second instance I know is when the 1950 Atom Man vs. Superman serial used Luthor as its villain, the character's first screen appearance -- as well as giving him the Atom Man alias used for an unrelated character on radio (a Nazi spy with kryptonite powers). Other than that, we didn't begin to see adaptations of specific comics storylines or villains until 1966 and after, with the Batman sitcom and animated TV cartoons based on DC and Marvel comics. (Although 2/3 of Batman's guest villains were original creations.)

And once Batman was over, live-action superhero adaptations mostly went back to using original villains, with a few exceptions -- the first two Lynda Carter Wonder Woman episodes used obscure villains from the '40s comics, and the Reeve Superman movies used Luthor and Zod along with other original villains (though the computer in Superman III was initially going to be Brainiac). It wasn't really until the Burton/Schumacher Batman movies and afterward that it became the default for superhero movies to use pre-existing villains, and TV doing it as the default is even more recent than that. The '90 Flash was effectively forbidden from using comics villains until the latter half of its season, and Lois & Clark had Luthor as a regular in season 1 but otherwise made only occasional use of comics villains. Even Smallville relied mainly on original weekly foes, though it brought in comics characters more often over time.

And the grass is always greener. Back in the day (at least by the '90s when I was familiar enough with comics and animated superhero shows to know the difference), I often wished that live-action superhero shows would use more established characters from the comics rather than striking their own separate paths. Now I feel they rely too heavily on pre-established characters and I wish they'd use more original ones. After all, the comics have often been enriched by the adoption of original characters from their adaptations, from Jimmy Olsen to Harley Quinn to Phil Coulson. (Hmm. Olsen... Coulson... coincidence?)

Although I think the reason most characters in comics adaptations today are comics-derived rather than original -- even when they just take the name and change everything else, like Felicity on Arrow or Hunter and Mack on Agents of SHIELD -- is because the shows are now being produced directly by the production arms of the comics publishers, and so they want to rely as much as possible on characters (or at least character names) they already own, rather than paying screenwriters royalties for the reuse of newly created characters. I mean, it's bizarre how far they'll go to reuse existing characters these days. Even Jason Wilkes, Agent Carter's season-2 love interest, was loosely based on a character from a single 1962 story in the Tales of Suspense anthology.


2) I believe Smallville's version of Lena, Tess Mercer, was used in a slightly villainous role at one point, essentially replacing her brother as a foil for Clark and Co.

I believe she was fairly villainous for a while, or at least morally ambiguous, but I think her connection to Lena was a retcon. As originally conceived in season 8, she was an homage to Mercy Graves from Superman: The Animated Series and Eve Teschmacher from the '78 movie, hence her name. (I think she was even addressed as "Mercy" as a nickname on occasion.) It was only in season 10 that she was revealed to be Lex's sister and given the full first name "Lutessa" to fit the obligatory LL initials -- and then somebody seems to have remembered that Lex already had a sister in the comics and gave her the middle name Lena as an Easter egg. So I don't believe she was originally intended to be Lena. If that had been anything more than an afterthought, they never would've saddled her with a first name like "Lutessa."
 
Supergirl isn't the first Arrowverse show to use villains associated with other characters, Arrow has used a lot of villains associated with Batman and other DC characters.
 
Last edited:
Supergirl isn't the first Arrowverse show to use villains associated with other characters, Arrow has used a lot of villains associated with Batman and other DC characters.

Something which bitscrewed Arrow when DC started demanding they kill off everyone the movies would be using. I wonder if Supergirl is going to have to kill of characters like Superman so it doesn't interfere with Justice League/the DCEU. Or, maybe (even though its moved to CW) it still has a deal like Gotham where DC can't just screw them over at a moments notice because they think viewers are too stupid to accept multiple versions of a character on TV and movies.
 
I think they're finally starting to realize people can handle two versions of the same character on TV and in the movies. At this point unless they cancel the Flash or switch the focus to Wally or someone else, I don't think they can really limit characters in both the movies and TV shows.
 
We don't know exactly WHY Arrow was retroactively forbidden from using certain characters, but they weren't "told to kill off" said characters; the choice of how to write said characters out of the show was entirely that of the showrunners; it just so happens that killing off said characters ended up being the most efficient and dramatically resonant way of writing them off of the show.

I would point out, though, that said embargo isn't actually as all-encompassing as it seems, given that we've continued to see Amanda Waller on Arrow even after said embargo was put in place.

We've also seen Frank Lawton since said embargo was put in place, albeit on The Flash.
 
I would argue that Flashbacks and Alternate Universes don't count.

Hopefully Geoff Johns is loosening the reigns on what the TV shows can do.

Superman being cast is huge.
 
I know its unlikely, but damn, would I love a Superman crossover episode. I'd love it if they spent an episode truly exploring the multiverse... lets call it "The Superman (men) of 4 Earths." or something like that.

Most of the actors are already *under contract* by CW/CBS!

Routh Superman, Welling Superman, New (SG) Superman and Dean Cain Superman could all meet and interact on some adventure. Tell me that would be freakin cool??
 
Routh Superman, Welling Superman, New (SG) Superman and Dean Cain Superman could all meet and interact on some adventure. Tell me that would be freakin cool??

I think it would be pure gimmickry and self-indulgence. There comes a point when the Easter eggs and fanservice cross a line and just start getting in the way of good storytelling. And it would be deeply confusing to the new viewers who only know Brandon Routh as Ray Palmer and Dean Cain as Jeremiah Danvers. That's why The Flash made John Wesley Shipp the Earth-3 Jay Garrick instead of the Barry Allen from the 1990 series. It was enough of an homage to satisfy the fans of the old show, yet it was a story point that originated from within the existing show's reality and was thus comprehensible to viewers who knew nothing of the old show. If a reference doesn't work for both audiences, if it's too inside for the casual viewer, then it should be saved for fanfiction.

Okay, granted, you're no doubt just presenting it as a wishful-thinking hypothetical, but even from that perspective, I don't think it would be something I'd enjoy, at least not on those terms. If the goal is to get the actors to interact, you can do that by having them play new characters, as they already do. But if you want to get me interested in a story about multiple alternate Supermen interacting, then the selling point needs to be in the story itself, not the casting.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, definitely different aspects of the character being explored; Dean Cain would be like a Kingdom Come older Superman; Maybe Routh as a version of the current comics Super Dad (considering where we last saw him in Returns, Welling had quite a learning curve over his show, and had to choose his humanity over his ancestry yet embrace his destiny... I'm sure they could all contribute something to a storyline.

Even better would be if we DO get a Superboy via Cadmus..... this would work even better as a mentoring story for him, honestly. But now I'm off in my own personal alt universe of Supergirl TV... lol.
 
I know its unlikely, but damn, would I love a Superman crossover episode. I'd love it if they spent an episode truly exploring the multiverse... lets call it "The Superman (men) of 4 Earths." or something like that.

Most of the actors are already *under contract* by CW/CBS!

Routh Superman, Welling Superman, New (SG) Superman and Dean Cain Superman could all meet and interact on some adventure. Tell me that would be freakin cool??
I hate to say it, but I agree with Christopher that it would make for a bad episode , but it would make for a great COMMERCIAL, a la last year's "fight club"...using the characters in a non-canon situation... Cavill promoting the movie he's in, while Routh cones in at the end like he did in the CW commercial
 
Except they're not.

Yes, obviously, but I'm speaking about the apparent reason for why the WB execs were okay with Gotham existing but not with Arrow keeping Waller and the Squad around. We're not talking about objectively logical definitions, we're talking about the arcane and arbitrary decisions of studios and licensors.
 
The 90s Flash series has already been established as being part of the Arrowverse via the concept of Alternate Earths, so John Wesley Shipp has the distinction of playing 3 different versions of essentially the same character across 3 different Earths (E1 Henry Allen, 90s Barry Allen, and E3 Jay Garrick).
 
Yes, obviously, but I'm speaking about the apparent reason for why the WB execs were okay with Gotham existing but not with Arrow keeping Waller and the Squad around. We're not talking about objectively logical definitions, we're talking about the arcane and arbitrary decisions of studios and licensors.

It ought to be pretty obvious that somebody asked for Arrow's use of Squad characters to be curtailed, especially in light of the licensing agreement that was given to Gotham.
 
The 90s Flash series has already been established as being part of the Arrowverse via the concept of Alternate Earths...

You keep insisting that, but it was just a single image that was never followed up on and that most viewers probably hardly noticed. It was an Easter egg, a wink to the fans, not the Absolutely Canonical Undeniable Plot Point that you keep claiming it had to be. If they had meant it to be an actual, confirmed plot point, then they would have followed up on it by now. Sure, it was enough of a nod to allow you to believe, as a matter of personal choice, that it could be the case, but that's not at all the same as officially verifying it in-story. It's a hint, yes, but hardly unambiguous proof, because proof requires corroboration. (After all, the same show used footage of the Trickster from the '90s show to represent its own version of the Trickster, proving that images from one reality can be repurposed to represent another.)


It ought to be pretty obvious that somebody asked for Arrow's use of Squad characters to be curtailed, especially in light of the licensing agreement that was given to Gotham.

I'm confused... you seem to think you're arguing with me on this, but here we seem to be saying the same thing -- that the Gotham characters were treated differently. The logical surmise is that the reason for that difference is that the Gotham characters are functionally distinct because they're younger, earlier versions. Presumably the goal is to avoid competition between two simultaneous iterations of the same character, so that one doesn't take away viewership from the other. (I'm not saying I think that view makes sense, mind you, just that it's probably the rationale motivating the execs or lawyers or whoever's making these calls.) But teenage Bruce Wayne is not going to be seen as a character that competes with Batman, because he isn't Batman yet. He's technically the same individual, but he has a different persona and role in the story, so the two are functionally distinct enough not to be seen as competing. Which isn't the case with characters like Waller and Deadshot. (As for the Flash, I assume that the TV show was allowed to exist because it was already underway by the time the Flash movie was commissioned. If the movie had been put into production a year or so earlier, the TV show might never have happened.)
 
Christopher: There is absolutely nothing stopping Gotham's writers from jumping ahead and making their Bruce Wayne Batman other than themselves. If they decided to go in that direction, they would be totally free to do so without any objections from anyone on the film side of Warner Bros./DC.

You keep assuming that there's some sort of caveat attached to Gotham's use of the Batman property that is conditional on the series being a "prequel", but there's not.

Regarding the 90s Flash series and the Arrow Multiverse, none of the Arrowverse-affiliated shows have included "meaningless Easter Eggs" to date. Everything that they have included, be it as a background reference, an offhand comment, or a visual tidbit, has been included with the intent of it having importance, even if that importance is only to say "this exists as part of our mythos".
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top