Subspace Radio and the Horizon

[CTM]

I like the idea (I admit, not my own) that Planet-based Subspace transmitters were practical - but ship-based ones were prohibitively expensive (energy and or mass costs). Ships could easily receive subspace messages from the "terrestrial" transmitters, but had to reply with warp-capable message "torpedoes" or simply wait until their next pass by a starbase or other "terrestrial" transmitter to reply. I also like the idea of ever miniaturization and improvement of subspace transmitters - allowing short-range/low-power transmitters to start being carried aboard ships. Even by TNG, one could envision the "terrestrial" transmitters being far, far more powerful than those carried aboard ships. Relay networks within the Federation and the like would help extend the functional range of a starship's transmitter, but I doubt even then that a TNG era ship well beyond the frontier/relay network would be able to send to say Earth; but it might well still be able to Receive messages from there.

 

[Ronald Held]

I can see it needing a repeater to get the signal very far, but that is not the same as stating it had no Subspace radio.

 

[CTM]

I watched the episode in question this evening. The key words in the phrase were "out here." As in "They didn't have subspace radio out here back then." It was all clouded by Kirk trying to explain without explaining, or explaining the inexplicable (to those lacking the proper frame of reference to understand).

I take it that Horizon was beyond the range of any subspace network - either as I described in my previous post, or some other similar explanation.

 

[Timo]

Also, once again, the exact wording referred to the lack of "subspace communication". Not to the lack of subspace radio. You can have a working radio transceiver in your pocket or on your desk today and still not have radio communication, if the conditions don't allow you to make contact (you're out of range, there's too much noise in the ether, your geographical surroundings suck radio waves).

So perhaps the Horizon had a subspace set aboard, but couldn't make contact with it. Or perhaps the Horizon knew she would be sailing in places where no contact could be made anyway, so she never bothered to take aboard a subspace set.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EmperorTiberius]

Ships didn't have subspace communications, planets did.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

A ship without some sort of deflection system would find itself wiped out by the next dirt clod it came across

I would think NORMAL shields would suffice for that. Besides, it's plain to see that most Klingon and Romulan designs either don't have deflector dishes or don't have a dedicated device specifically for that. Apart from Starfleet, only the Cardassians seem to have these devices, and in that case they combine them with weapons mounts anyway.

Sigma Iotia is out in the boonies, so it's not any kind of stretch to assume that they're waaaaaay off the grid, especially when the Horizon stopped by.

I would actually assume the regular premise that subspace radio is impossible over any appreciable distance without some really large and powerful (and therefore very obvious) transmitters, which would explain the largeness of Starfleet deflector dishes (after all, they travel farther and longer than any other race in the Trekiverse). All other races probably use courier ships that only communicate over short distances of a few million kilometers or so, as did Starfleet (or whoever Horizon was actually with) in the 22nd century.

 

[EmperorTiberius]

I would actually assume the regular premise that subspace radio is impossible over any appreciable distance without some really large and powerful (and therefore very obvious) transmitters, which would explain the largeness of Starfleet deflector dishes (after all, they travel farther and longer than any other race in the Trekiverse). All other races probably use courier ships that only communicate over short distances of a few million kilometers or so, as did Starfleet (or whoever Horizon was actually with) in the 22nd century.

Starfleet deflector dishes are it's long-range sensor arrays. Other races might use different technology for their long range sensors and deflectors, hence, their deflectors are probably of completely different designs and don't look anything like starfleet ones.

 

[Timo]

I guess we might be divided in two camps here as regards a key piece of evidence. ENT clearly shows that shipboard subspace comm sets were in existence before the forming of the UFP, and that even civilian vessels at the time (including one freighter named Horizon possessed those. So the "TOS Horizon didn't have a set, because shipboard ones hadn't been invented yet or were hugely expensive and rare" theory doesn't hold water. But perhaps some of us wish to ignore ENT?

Also, many other species in the UFP have shown technological prowess. Even if us Earthlings didn't invent ship-compatible subspace sets by the late 22nd century, would it make sense that the Vulcans didn't already have those, or that they refused to give or sell any to the Federation?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I guess we might be divided in two camps here as regards a key piece of evidence. ENT clearly shows that shipboard subspace comm sets were in existence before the forming of the UFP, and that even civilian vessels at the time (including one freighter named Horizon possessed those. So the "TOS Horizon didn't have a set, because shipboard ones hadn't been invented yet or were hugely expensive and rare" theory doesn't hold water. But perhaps some of us wish to ignore ENT?

Or if you assume, as I do, that the ENT timeline exists only because of the Enterprise's interference in First Contact and somebody (probably drunken Diana) left their communicator in Cochrane's office.

 

[PRStoetzer]

The Enterprise book Kobayashi Maru tells the story. The ECS Horizon's subspace transmitters were damaged and they had to send the report back via regular radio. The Horizon was then destroyed after being taken over remotely by Romulans.

 

[Timo]

^Not a very good story, because it assumes Kirk was lying to the Iotians. Having a broken transmitter is not the same as "not having subspace commmunications back in those days".

Of course, Kirk might have a reason to lie, as mentioned earlier on: Iotians would probably be prime suspects in the disappearance of the Horizon, so Kirk wouldn't volunteer much information to them and indeed would probably try and entrap them with false statements and clever questions. But it's unclear how lying about the UFP's subspace communications capabilities in the late 22nd century would be helpful in this.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Wingsley]

The Enterprise book Kobayashi Maru tells the story. The ECS Horizon's subspace transmitters were damaged and they had to send the report back via regular radio. The Horizon was then destroyed after being taken over remotely by Romulans.

This would seem to cement the notion that "Balance of Terror" and "A Piece of the Action" are indeed contradictory. Spock's address to the crew in "Balance" and the overall content of ENT seemed to make it clear that FTL communication technology did exist, but Kirk's explanation in "Action" made it sound like the technology had not been invented at all back then.

Let me rephrase an idea I suggested earlier: perhaps the basic technology of what is called "subspace radio" (at least, the higher-powered, longer-range technology Kirk was speaking of) did not exist before the 23rd century. Let's assume that subspace communications were simply of a relatively shorter range, lower-power nature in the ENT / post-ENT / early UFP era. Starships in the 2150's and 2160's (such as both the NX-01 and the ECS Horizon) could've used "breadcrumb" booster/relay buoys in those days (like Echo One) to make contacting the home base possible. But if one link in the "breadcrumb" buoy chain went down, the last buoy to receive the subspace message would revert to lightspeed EM radio to relay the call.

In this sense, the technology that Kirk and company take for granted called "subspace radio" did not exist in the days of Echo One. Therefore, Kirk did not misspeak in "Action" since his notion of interstellar FTL communications would be significantly removed from the primitive nature of subspace radio technology in the Echo One days.

Would this smooth over the contradiction?

 

[caisson2delta]

The Enterprise book Kobayashi Maru tells the story. The ECS Horizon's subspace transmitters were damaged and they had to send the report back via regular radio. The Horizon was then destroyed after being taken over remotely by Romulans.

This would seem to cement the notion that "Balance of Terror" and "A Piece of the Action" are indeed contradictory. Spock's address to the crew in "Balance" and the overall content of ENT seemed to make it clear that FTL communication technology did exist, but Kirk's explanation in "Action" made it sound like the technology had not been invented at all back then.

Let me rephrase an idea I suggested earlier: perhaps the basic technology of what is called "subspace radio" (at least, the higher-powered, longer-range technology Kirk was speaking of) did not exist before the 23rd century. Let's assume that subspace communications were simply of a relatively shorter range, lower-power nature in the ENT / post-ENT / early UFP era. Starships in the 2150's and 2160's (such as both the NX-01 and the ECS Horizon) could've used "breadcrumb" booster/relay buoys in those days (like Echo One) to make contacting the home base possible. But if one link in the "breadcrumb" buoy chain went down, the last buoy to receive the subspace message would revert to lightspeed EM radio to relay the call.

In this sense, the technology that Kirk and company take for granted called "subspace radio" did not exist in the days of Echo One. Therefore, Kirk did not misspeak in "Action" since his notion of interstellar FTL communications would be significantly removed from the primitive nature of subspace radio technology in the Echo One days.

Would this smooth over the contradiction?

I was going to post something similar to this idea. I would tend to think, as a general rule, the communications systems on most standard ships were quite similar. To get the subspace style of transmitting/receiving they needed to be within range of really large stationery systems or inside a booster network, as you described.