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Spoilers Stranger Things - Season 5

We've reached the endgame (oops, wrong universe).

Even though we knew it was coming, I greatly loved Will's big coming out and I'm glad it wasn't treated as an easy moment for him. His anxiety was at the highest level and, while it wasn't a surprise, seeing how everyone didn't hesitate to express their love and acceptance of Will really hit hard for me. Added to how much this must've meant for Noah Schnapp, this whole scene was so beautiful and powerful. Between this scene and Robin's coming out to Steve (and all of the conversations between Robin and Will), the show has done a wonderful job in telling queer stories.

I will say I didn't expect the reveal about the Upside Down's nature but I loved that it leaned into physics so hard despite the overall supernatural trappings. I am glad that many of the madcap theories fans had were completely off base (including the entirety of the show has been a fantasy of Will's since kidnapping). I expect we'll still get another twist or two before the end but I'm not sure what they'll be other the true nature of Henry Creel.

Speaking of whom, we got some nice teases about his past and how his dark nature predated Hawkins (which I had been spoiled on by some careless reviewers regarding The First Shadow). I really hope the finale will be more explicit about his past and not keep it vague for the sake of the play. I still very much want to see the play (in whatever form that might be, whether it's a recording or I finally get to see a performance of it some day), but the play's biggest reveals shouldn't be kept there and they should at least be outlined in the show itself.

Although I've been a big Nancy/Jonathan shipper, I nonetheless loved their desperate, long overdue heart-to-heart talk about their feelings about each other and were finally honest about their relationship. Considering how things were between them last season, this conclusion isn't a surprise but it still saddens me a little. I also appreciated Nancy's mature response about Steve and I hope the show takes the uncommon route of resolving of a love triangle with no one together and they're mutually happy about that.

I know a lot of people hated the Dustin/Steve conflict but I still maintain it was a natural discourse, especially in the regards of where Dustin's head was at after Eddie's death. I believe how they finally resolved their differences (both in the heat of the moment and their own quiet heart-to-heart later on) demonstrated that it was a worthy journey for them to take and their friendship is stronger as a result. The only way I can see the Steve dies is if they both die, even if its that the obvious route, but I still don't think that'll happen.

Kali isn't wrong about the vicious cycle that's been perpetuated around her and El, but I'm not convinced her solution is the best one, nor do I think El will ultimately follow through (regardless of whatever Hopper may think or do). I do think Kali is going to trying to force the issue and Hopper is going to get in the way, but I don't think either of those actions will sway El in either direction. She's always been her own person. The only question is whether Kali or Hopper attempt a sacrifice for her sake.

While I figured Karen and even Vicki would be read in by the end, I was pleasantly surprised how Mr. Clarke was suddenly right in the thick of it all! This makes up for missing out on him last season. Just a shame that he (and Erica) aren't part of the final mission in the Upside Down.

I'm still holding onto hope for Powell and Callahan return by that seems unlikely at this point, beyond a glorified cameo during the denouement. Speaking of which, I'm quite surprised Owens hasn't return or hasn't even been mentioned. Last we saw, he was Sullivan's prisoner...and then nothing come of that. But maybe he's part of Kay's final play.

Gods, all of that just came pouring out of me. I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff (Max has finally awaken! Henry was especially a creepy motherfucker when he turned the kids against Holly! The military's plan is of course gross and evil!) but, man, I cannot wait for the finale. Thankfully it's only a week away!
 
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For me, so far, the only major critique I have is with the military subplot. The only benefit they have provided has been in being cannon fodder to the main party and to Vecna and his "soldiers". Maybe they will play a larger role in the finale, as Dr. Kay did mention reinforcements coming in.
 
I'm confused about what the Goo is supposed to represent. I've only watched up to Episode 6 and plan to see episode 7 tomorrow.
Yeah, I found that a little vague, especially once Nancy and Jonathan were coated in it. I thought it was melted metal and plastic but since it didn't harm them in its liquid state, I guess not. My best guest is...melted reality?
 
Yeah, I found that a little vague, especially once Nancy and Jonathan were coated in it. I thought it was melted metal and plastic but since it didn't harm them in its liquid state, I guess not. My best guest is...melted reality?
That's where I'm leaning towards, as well. The exotic matter is breaking down the very essence of the Upside Down into some base component - which is why it all looks the same color. That may explain why Nancy and Jonathan weren't directly affected.
 
Even though we knew it was coming, I greatly loved Will's big coming out and I'm glad it wasn't treated as an easy moment for him. His anxiety was at the highest level and, while it wasn't a surprise, seeing how everyone didn't hesitate to express their love and acceptance of Will really hit hard for me. Added to how much this must've meant for Noah Schnapp, this whole scene was so beautiful and powerful. Between this scene and Robin's coming out to Steve (and all of the conversations between Robin and Will), the show has done a wonderful job in telling queer stories. *

I will say I didn't expect the reveal about the Upside Down's nature but I loved that it leaned into physics so hard despite the overall supernatural trappings. **

Although I've been a big Nancy/Jonathan shipper, I nonetheless loved their desperate, long overdue heart-to-heart talk about their feelings about each other and were finally honest about their relationship. Considering how things were between them last season, this conclusion isn't a surprise but it still saddens me a little. I also appreciated Nancy's mature response about Steve and I hope the show takes the uncommon route of resolving of a love triangle with no one together and they're mutually happy about that. ***

Kali isn't wrong about the vicious cycle that's been perpetuated around her and El, but I'm not convinced her solution is the best one, nor do I think El will ultimately follow through (regardless of whatever Hopper may think or do). I do think Kali is going to trying to force the issue and Hopper is going to get in the way, but I don't think either of those actions will sway El in either direction. She's always been her own person. The only question is whether Kali or Hopper attempt a sacrifice for her sake. ****

* I thought this scene was well done, but I really expected somebody to hint that they've known all along, but that wouldn't really be accurate for the era. Will's queerness was teased in the first season. Of all the things the show gets wrong about the 80s, hiding one's sexuality as a teenager is not one of them. I remember that there were two guy's who were gay in my group of a couple of dozen friends in high school. One was a guy whom I was too naive to guess he was gay until he came out in university. I was always jealous of him because I thought he was pretty suave and always had great looking girls around him. The other guy, we just thought was effeminate --and he didn't come out until his twenties.

**I went back and reread A Wrinkle in Time after the first batch of episodes so I figured a wormhole was going to come into the story somehow.

***I thought this conversation was particularly well done. Given everything they've gone through I felt it realistic that Nancy and Jonathan would be able to handle this discussion more maturely than most 19/20 year olds. The truth is that most high school romances don't last much beyond that. I too, would like to see Steve, Jonathan, and Nancy remain just friends at the end.

**** Something is off with Kali, but I'm not sure what. I fully expect this to end in a way that is similar to the Loki series with one character having to stay behind and take up the role as protector of the bridge--and Kali's return marks her as the number one candidate for that role.

(Sorry for the footnotes style, but I only wanted to comment on parts of your post. Not that the other parts aren't good, of course.)
 
IIRC, Kali has always had one priority in her life, herself. She used her team to exact revenge on those who wronged her. I am skeptical about the story that Kali told to Jane; I felt she was manipulating her into making a decision which would benefit Kali.

It doesn't help that the military subplot with Dr. Kay is a trainwreck. I feel that they are wasting Linda Hamilton in the role.
 
Need to watch the last episode still but it's noon here ( couldn't keep awake at 1am when it was released in Germany so immediately started when i woke up), off to cook lunch ( something quick enough) before i start on the last episode of vol. 2 and i skipped all your postings for now due to possible spoilers.

What i can say is that this show is continuing to fire on all cylinders, it just doesn't let up both in intense moments as well as personal and emotional ones.

Dustin's discovery and the complete reversal of our "knowledge" about the Upside Down was kinda expected by me ( well at least some big twist, not the specifics) but it still had me gripping my seat and all the emotional moments assaulted my manly, Spartan like stoicism ( :lol: :brickwall:), until i broke down when i saw the last scene of the second episode with Max and Holly :wah::wah::wah:

Damn this show is so good and i just can't imagine them fumbling the end now. I'm sure people online will find fault, maybe it'll be a huge fan divider but i am confident it won't leave the audience, ie. us, feeling nothing.
 
* I thought this scene was well done, but I really expected somebody to hint that they've known all along, but that wouldn't really be accurate for the era.
I think it's safe to say based on season 4 that Jonathan knew, even if he didn't openly say it here. You could see it on his face when Will was coming out. If anyone would've known all along, it would've been him (also Joyce, but she had been distracted by the trauma of his disappearance).

**I went back and reread A Wrinkle in Time after the first batch of episodes so I figured a wormhole was going to come into the story somehow.
Oh...duh. I didn't even think about that. It's been many years since I've read the book (and I wasn't that fond of it...) but I got all of the other references (up to and including the Black Thing and even the fairy tale nature of the Creel House). I just didn't see the obvious foreshadowing coming.

***I thought this conversation was particularly well done. Given everything they've gone through I felt it realistic that Nancy and Jonathan would be able to handle this discussion more maturely than most 19/20 year olds. The truth is that most high school romances don't last much beyond that. I too, would like to see Steve, Jonathan, and Nancy remain just friends at the end.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I know a lot of people hate on the relationship and especially Jonathan, but I'm glad that they had such a stellar moment in this final season.

**** Something is off with Kali, but I'm not sure what. I fully expect this to end in a way that is similar to the Loki series with one character having to stay behind and take up the role as protector of the bridge--and Kali's return marks her as the number one candidate for that role.
Yeah, I agree there's something off about her but I've been chalking it up to her (very understandably) cynical view on life. I think Kali doing the Loki sacrifice is pretty obvious so I can't help but wonder if that's a red herring (much like "Steve is going to die!"). But sometimes obvious is good, so we'll see.

(Sorry for the footnotes style, but I only wanted to comment on parts of your post. Not that the other parts aren't good, of course.)
No worries. Split quotes can be a pain in the ass (especially if you're doing it on your phone).

IIRC, Kali has always had one priority in her life, herself. She used her team to exact revenge on those who wronged her. I am skeptical about the story that Kali told to Jane; I felt she was manipulating her into making a decision which would benefit Kali.
Which story? About her friends or what the military are doing in the Upside Down? I believe her because it makes so much sense. Of course they want to recreate Henry and El. That's always been their goal (except for Sullivan, who was just deluded...).

It doesn't help that the military subplot with Dr. Kay is a trainwreck. I feel that they are wasting Linda Hamilton in the role.
I do agree the military subplot has been a bust and I would say Dr. Kay is more of a Mayor Kline than a Dr. Brenner, but I don't think Linda has been wasted. She has been stellar in every moment she's been and I loved how she physically and verbally shoved Lt. Akers around. I do wish we got more of her but I'm happy what we've gotten. Perhaps she'll have a stronger presence in the finale.
 
We've reached the endgame (oops, wrong universe).

Even though we knew it was coming, I greatly loved Will's big coming out and I'm glad it wasn't treated as an easy moment for him. His anxiety was at the highest level and, while it wasn't a surprise, seeing how everyone didn't hesitate to express their love and acceptance of Will really hit hard for me. Added to how much this must've meant for Noah Schnapp, this whole scene was so beautiful and powerful. Between this scene and Robin's coming out to Steve (and all of the conversations between Robin and Will), the show has done a wonderful job in telling queer stories.

I will say I didn't expect the reveal about the Upside Down's nature but I loved that it leaned into physics so hard despite the overall supernatural trappings. I am glad that many of the madcap theories fans had were completely off base (including the entirety of the show has been a fantasy of Will's since kidnapping). I expect we'll still get another twist or two before the end but I'm not sure what they'll be other the true nature of Henry Creel.

Speaking of whom, we got some nice teases about his past and how his dark nature predated Hawkins (which I had been spoiled on by some careless reviewers regarding The First Shadow). I really hope the finale will be more explicit about his past and not keep it vague for the sake of the play. I still very much want to see the play (in whatever form that might be, whether it's a recording or I finally get to see a performance of it some day), but the play's biggest reveals shouldn't be kept there and they should at least be outlined in the show itself.

Although I've been a big Nancy/Jonathan shipper, I nonetheless loved their desperate, long overdue heart-to-heart talk about their feelings about each other and were finally honest about their relationship. Considering how things were between them last season, this conclusion isn't a surprise but it still saddens me a little. I also appreciated Nancy's mature response about Steve and I hope the show takes the uncommon route of resolving of a love triangle with no one together and they're mutually happy about that.

I know a lot of people hated the Dustin/Steve conflict but I still maintain it was a natural discourse, especially in the regards of where Dustin's head was at after Eddie's death. I believe how they finally resolved their differences (both in the heat of the moment and their own quiet heart-to-heart later on) demonstrated that it was a worthy journey for them to take and their friendship is stronger as a result. The only way I can see the Steve dies is if they both die, even if its that the obvious route, but I still don't think that'll happen.

Kali isn't wrong about the vicious cycle that's been perpetuated around her and El, but I'm not convinced her solution is the best one, nor do I think El will ultimately follow through (regardless of whatever Hopper may think or do). I do think Kali is going to trying to force the issue and Hopper is going to get in the way, but I don't think either of those actions will sway El in either direction. She's always been her own person. The only question is whether Kali or Hopper attempt a sacrifice for her sake.

While I figured Karen and even Vicki would be read in by the end, I was pleasantly surprised how Mr. Clarke was suddenly right in the thick of it all! This makes up for missing out on him last season. Just a shame that he (and Erica) aren't part of the final mission in the Upside Down.

I'm still holding onto hope for Powell and Callahan return by that seems unlikely at this point, beyond a glorified cameo during the denouement. Speaking of which, I'm quite surprised Owens hasn't return or hasn't even been mentioned. Last we saw, he was Sullivan's prisoner...and then nothing come of that. But maybe he's part of Kay's final play.

Gods, all of that just came pouring out of me. I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff (Max has finally awaken! Henry was especially a creepy motherfucker when he turned the kids against Holly! The military's plan is of course gross and evil!) but, man, I cannot wait for the finale. Thankfully it's only a week away!

Completely agree on all counts.

I have never experienced a real Coming Out being heterosexual myself and not having gay friends in my close circle of friends ( that i know of, if so i hope they don't fear my reaction if they ever came out), so i have never had a personal talk with gay people about their experiences ( not really workplace talk ;) ) but i can only imagine it is like this to many gay people who are unsure how their friends and family will react. It is heartbreaking to think about the anxiety and fear about such a monumental moment.

This should be mandatory viewing to every bigot out there so they can see what their bigotry and hate does to people, how it affects them and that they're 99% the same as everybody else. Wonderful writing and acting.

What i now wonder mainly is what is Vecna's Endgame, i.e. why is he doing all of this? I mean what happens if he succeeds and merges the Abyss and Earth to create something new, does he want to be the ruler over it all and would it be ruler over the ashes if this merge kills all life on Earth? I really don't get Vecna's ultimate motivation here but there are several hooks still open chief amongst them that unresolved memory with the cave he dares not enter and what that man Henry killed had in his suitcase ( looked like something technical in there for the split second we saw it).

I figure that will be a major ey in defeating Vecna and gives the secondary team around Max something crucial to do in the finale.

As you said fortunately it's only a week away.
 
Completely agree on all counts.

I have never experienced a real Coming Out being heterosexual myself and not having gay friends in my close circle of friends ( that i know of, if so i hope they don't fear my reaction if they ever came out), so i have never had a personal talk with gay people about their experiences ( not really workplace talk ;) ) but i can only imagine it is like this to many gay people who are unsure how their friends and family will react. It is heartbreaking to think about the anxiety and fear about such a monumental moment.

This should be mandatory viewing to every bigot out there so they can see what their bigotry and hate does to people, how it affects them and that they're 99% the same as everybody else. Wonderful writing and acting.

What i now wonder mainly is what is Vecna's Endgame, i.e. why is he doing all of this? I mean what happens if he succeeds and merges the Abyss and Earth to create something new, does he want to be the ruler over it all and would it be ruler over the ashes if this merge kills all life on Earth? I really don't get Vecna's ultimate motivation here but there are several hooks still open chief amongst them that unresolved memory with the cave he dares not enter and what that man Henry killed had in his suitcase ( looked like something technical in there for the split second we saw it).

I figure that will be a major ey in defeating Vecna and gives the secondary team around Max something crucial to do in the finale.

As you said fortunately it's only a week away.

I'm pretty sure Vecna's motivation is the same thing it always has been. Turn our world into the Abyss, fill it with his perfect predators and wipe out the entire human race in favor of his better world. Only big difference here is that if he pulls this one off it's irreversible and unstoppable because there won't be anymore gate to shut.
 

Someone on this forum previously said that the families of child actors who become famous at a young age are awful, and they were right. By the way, I watched episodes 5, 6, and 7, and they were good.
 
Regardless of how things turn out. I can't see how any of our 'heroes' live normal lives considering the massive body count they've racked up against the US military.
 
The acting in all three episodes seemed average to me; nothing extraordinary. But of course, the Twitter crowd is already making fun of Millie Bobby Brown for her Botox and fillers, and convinced that Noah Schnapp is a terrible actor.
 
I do agree with some of the criticisms about the over-reliance in part 2 of "second-screen" type of expository writing. There were a lot of those group scenes and re-stacking information. One of the most awkward ones were Dustin and Steve explaining Return of the Jedi - that was just clunky.

The cast is doing what they can with the scripts.
 
I've seen some comments online saying the final season is awful, but I don't think it is. Or rather, it's not as awful as Game of Thrones or Lost. This is just my theory; I think they'll end the finale in a way that resembles a Marvel series, meaning the villain will be defeated, and one of Eleven and Will will take over the Upside Down and stop the attacks on Hawkins and Earth.
 
Yeah, I found that a little vague, especially once Nancy and Jonathan were coated in it. I thought it was melted metal and plastic but since it didn't harm them in its liquid state, I guess not. My best guest is...melted reality?
Yeah, I had just assumed that was supposed to be the Upside Down itself breaking down.

The three episodes were great, and we actually did get the kind of big reveals they promised.
The big Upside Down reveal really did completely change everything about it, and gave us a nice bit real science behind everything. I thought the visual of the outside of the Upside Down was pretty cool.
It was kind of nice to see them resolve things with Johnathan and Nancy once and for all.
I was also pretty happy with how they had Dustin and him dealt with their issues, and get back to being friends.
Watching it as a straight person, I thought Will's coming out scene was really well done, and the reactions from everybody were great.
It was nice to get Max back, but I was disappointed everything they went through Holly ended up right back in Vecna's control. The reveal that his base was actually in Dimension X/The Abyss was a surprise. The stuff with him and the kids was serious creepy, and it was sad how easily he turned them against Holly. I'm curious what's going to happen with Derek since he knows the truth, but is too scared to turn on Vecna. I'm also wondering what happened with Holly after the other kids knocked her down the stairs, she looked off at the table. I was trying to figure out if Henry was controlling her somehow, or if she had just given up fighting.
Bringing Mr. Clarke and Vickie into the inner circle was surprise, and it was nice Karen Wheeler finally learn about the Upside Down, after spending so long kind of on the edge of all of that before this season. Also loved her getting her another badass heroic moment in the hospital's laundry.
I'm curious what role Dr. Kay and the military will play in the finale, for a while I was wondering if one of the big twists was that we were either going to see her and her people help the heroes fight Henry in the end, or in a huge shocker have her take things so far that they had to join force with Henry to stop her, but now neither seem likely.
The other big wild card is Kali, like Hopper, I don't trust her, and I'm curious how far she will take thing get El to go along with her plan. My expectation right is that El will refuse to stay in the Upside Down as it collapses and Kali will try to force her too, but at the last minute Hopper will show up to save her, but the big question in that scenario would be whether or not Hopper survives.
I read a recap of important info from The First Shadow on IGN, but I couldn't remember all of it so I double checked the details on Wikipedia.
So for anyone who's interested here's the big backstory from it:
The whole thing started back during WWII when a ship was accidently sent to The Abyss, which they called Dimension X, and most of the crew was killed by what Wiki calls "strange humanoid creatures" which I'm assuming were Demos. It turns out that Brenner's father survived the attack on Earth, and told Brenner about what happened when he was on his deathbed. This is what motivated Brenner to do all of his work, which started off in Nevada. While he was in Nevada one of his scientists defected, stole a piece of technology and escaped into the mine. Henry and his family were livng nearby and Henry found the scientist in the cave, which is the memory we saw when Max and Holly were escaping, but what we didn't see is that Henry and the scientist were transported to The Abyss/Dimension X, and Henry encountered The Mind Flayer, which is how he got his powers. There's also a whole storyline with Henry and Bob Newby's sister falling in love, Joyce and other kids doing a production of Oklahoma, and Joyce and Hopper investigating attacks on animals that Henry was repsonsible for.
 
Just saw episode 7. I'll give the show one thing, these episodes are just flying by. I have a feeling I will have the feeling of as soon as the Finale starts, it will be almost over. I did appreciate them explaining more about the Upside Down and the Abyss and the Wormhole, but the goo thing was still confusing, yet it served the basis of Nancy and Johnathon's big scene (Maybe it represents breaking of barriers, but that's more of a metophorical thing, I was looking more for the context of what was going on on screen). Will's coming out was really well done. I've been saying since before the season that I don't think El is going to make it but because they have made such a big deal about this the last two episodes, I'm starting to think killing her off will be the most predictable thing this show will ever do. I hope they don't go that route.

I haven't really talked much about the military plot and to be honest, I wish they had just not had it this season. It's so dumb and while I was excited for Hamilton to be on this series (I even mentioned her role being like that on Resident Alien), I wish she wasn't and I could remember her from Resident Alien instead. That whole plotline is dumb and just adds nothing to already a whole lot going on. They could just end all the military stuff by just blowing up the lab (Which is part of the plan anyway) but I hope there is a twist coming that is somewhat unexpected (How unexpected can things be in this internet culture).

Finally, the star of this season might be Holly. I've absolutely loved her story, with Max and now having to go up against the brainwashed kids. Those scenes are creepy and I still hope the end of the finale is Max and Holly embracing really strong and just becoming life long friends.

Looking forward to the finale, and I'm debating if I want to see it in theaters or not. At least watching on Netflix I don't have to sit through promos and commercials.
 
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Just saw episode 7. I'll give the show one thing, these episodes are just flying by. I have a feeling I will have the feeling of as soon as the Finale starts, it will be almost over. I did appreciate them explaining more about the Upside Down and the Abyss and the Wormhole, but the goo thing was still confusing, yet it served the basis of Nancy and Johnathon's big scene (Maybe it represents breaking of barriers, but that's more of a metophorical thing, I was looking more for the context of what was going on on screen). Will's coming out was really well done. I've been saying since before the season that I don't think El is going to make it but because they have made such a big deal about this the last two episodes, I'm starting to think killing her off will be the most predictable thing this show will ever do. I hope they don't go that route.
For a while I was thinking Hopper sacrificing himself to save El was a lot more likely than El dying, but after two fake out and almost deaths for Hopper, I'm not sure if they'd go there again.
 
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