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Spoilers Stranger Things - Season 4

No way the Duffer Brothers would do a slaughter on that level.

I don't know, man. I'm getting a real Infinity War vibe from this. Like Vecna's not only going to survive but WIN the coming battle (with a promise to come back and finish the job after the time jump), leaving carnage and traumatized just-barely-made-it survivors in his wake.
 
The only difference is there's zero expectation for revival, which is the only way Infinity War got away with doing that carnage.

No, I stand by my point: No way there will be anymore than two significant deaths and most likely directly connected to each other.
 
The only characters I’d be shocked to see die are the core party of Mike/Dustin/Lucas. But it could be open season on the older siblings and friends. And Murray is clearly the most expendable adult.

And they could also have Erica get killed in a reversal of the expectations from D&D if they really want shock value.

I think the presence of Robin, a confirmed and not just implied gay character, reverses Will’s “Bury your gays” protection. Either one can die, just not both.

But I do not expect them to kill the “Main draw” characters the show would be completely different without.

And I really hope they don’t introduce time travel.
 
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Avoiding “Bury your gays” doesn’t mean no gay character can ever die. Just that they can’t disproportionately do so.

And Will’s personality reminds me more of the kind of shy awkward kid who gets accused of being gay by jocks than actual gay kids so if Will is confirmed gay it would make me think the Duffer brothers are stereotyping male emotionality as inherently gay.
 
And Will’s personality reminds me more of the kind of shy awkward kid who gets accused of being gay by jocks than actual gay kids so if Will is confirmed gay it would make me think the Duffer brothers are stereotyping male emotionality as inherently gay.

If he's having a coming out story, he has to be closeted, and if he's closeted, we need to have some indication that he is. Television is a visual media, so it's best to have it shown to us rather than told to us. Therefore they're doing the right thing here, IMHO. I mean do you want a Morrisey poster up on his wall or something?

Robin's coming out was done terribly last season, which is to be expected, as she was intended to actually have feelings for Steve, with Maya Hawke asking at the last minute they rewrite her to be a lesbian.
 
Just popping out from my usual lurker mode for a second. Not 100% if this has been mentioned, but as a music fan it was interesting to note that the Philip Glass piece played during the big reveal scene was Prophecies from Koyaanisqatsi. At the end of that movie the meaning of title word is explained:

1. Crazy life
2. Life in turmoil
3. Life out of balance
4. Life disintegrating
5. A state of life that calls for another way of living

I don't know about you, but that list makes me feel there are some very similar themes going on especially now that we know the motivation of Henry and The Upside Down certainly looks like it's disintegrating.
 
I can't see them killing more than one character this season, they're not going to want to lose to many fan favorites before the end. Now next season, since they're going in knowing it's the end, I'm thinking nobody is going to be safe.
 
Kate Bush sure got a revival out of this season.

Funny how many songs there are from that era that I remember upon hearing them, but had otherwise totally forgotten. I would never have recalled that song again if it hadn't popped up in the show. Happy consequence of living through a decade so utterly over-saturated with great music- it's impossible to mentally store it all.
 
Just wanted to pop in and say that while I've always enjoyed Stranger Things, I never really thought of it as emotionally moving or artistically accomplished until "Dear Billy." That was an absolutely wonderful depiction of the way, after losing someone, we can sometimes become prisoners of our grief, trapped within ourselves, and of how it is connection that allows us to escape it.
 
I agree with you about the strength of Dear Billy, but I think that the emotion being felt is a PTSD similar to what soldiers feel. The guilt of believing you have committed unspeakable acts and that because of what you have done you don't deserve to live in the real world any longer. Not only is it present in what the kids who died went through but it also ties into Hopper's story.
 
Just finished episode 8. Not sure when I will get to Episode 9 but it might be tomorrow night, which means I probably won't look at this thread until Sunday or Monday. I will say episode 8 still felt pretty long and I still have the attitude of what if they completely wrote Hopper out of the show and cut the Russian storyline entirely. I think they still would have had a pretty complete season where it didn't feel overwhelming with these episode run times. Either that or give the season a 13 episode run.
 
Well, that was rough. I mean there's gut punches and then there's having your guts run over by several locomotives and a whole stampede of wildebeest.

That choice of book that Lucas was reading feels significant somehow . . . but I just can't put my finger on why. . .

Also how am I only now just realising that Eddie's uncle is Enoch from Agent's of Shield (as he has always been)?!
 
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About 40 minutes from the end of Episode 9…. Fuuuuck, that’s heart wrenching.
 
I don't know, man. I'm getting a real Infinity War vibe from this. Like Vecna's not only going to survive but WIN the coming battle (with a promise to come back and finish the job after the time jump), leaving carnage and traumatized just-barely-made-it survivors in his wake.

Isn't there another season after this? We aren't at the last episodes of the entire series yet.
 
Stranger Things - Season 4, Episode 9 - the good, the bad and unsatisfying:

The Good:

Hopper and his relationships: even if one did not like the Russia subplot, it was less about the mission / threat of returning to the prison (as a potentially lethal encounter), but about the key reunions for Hopper, which reminded viewers how much of a role he played in El and Joyce's lives, despite his tendency to undervalue himself.

Max and Lucas: One might find themselves breathing a sigh of relief that they did not end up as something of interest for a mortician, but Max's condition--from a loss of eyesight, broken limbs and now comatose--was one of the worst events to happen to a main character in this series. I take it El's inability to reach into Max's mind is the result of the coma, as defeating as the outcome of that scene was, I cannot imagine Max will remain in that state (or suffer from any of the effects of Vecna's attack) throughout all of the final season. There's no guarantees or plot points about the final season leaked so far, but Max and Lucas deserve more screen time pointing toward their future, and a dark one.

The Duffers unintentionally laid out the contrast between the teenage couples; there was more believable, heartfelt, genuine connection in the scene of Max & Lucas exchanging notes (ending with Max's illustration indicating her desire to be in a relationship with Lucas again, which he later copied and pinned to her hospital room's wall), and (obviously), Lucas' agony over thinking Max died than any scenes between Mike and El. Whenever Mike has let go of any insecurities and just lets out what he's feeling, it tends to sound like he's simply saying what he believes he should, rather than it sounding like a weighty declaration of true love. Perhaps its Wolfhard's performance, or the way the Duffers often write the character, but by this time in their relationship, Mike and El--despite being the usual "winner" of the Stranger Things "favorite couple" discussion, never feel quite honest or realistic.

Steve: His hopes to win Nancy back were dashed, but as Nancy pointed out (to Jonathan), he's grown over the past couple of years, and he seems to have resigned himself to a life without Nancy. Yeah, yeah, Nancy's distracted conversation with Jonathan would lead some to think she's contemplating breaking up with Byers, but I can see her staying with Jonathan out of loyalty, and ending up in as loveless a relationship as her parents.

Erika: Sweet scene between Lucas and Erika, with his calling her out on attending all of his basketball games, knowing it was not due to the prompting or demands of their parents. Like many sibling, they snip and bicker, but this brief exchange left no doubt that Erika loves her big brother.


The Bad:

Nothing particularly bad, other than Vecna being more of a vehicle for others to react to, instead of his own character having more development and meaning.

The Unsatisfying:

Eddie:
His redemption arc fate was telegraphed, because of course the guy hated and hunted by various townsfolk / has the urge to run from his troubles would finally become some sort of hero, and just so no one had any doubts, Steve telling Eddie and Dusting to not try to be heroes was the loud call to action for someone to do something during this dangerous time. Yes, you knew it would never be Dustin. The problem is that the Duffers have a tendency to write in such an obvious, on-the-nose manner (similar to many of the 80s productions they take inspiration from), that there's no strong or surprising character development--certainly not with Eddie--again, his fate was clear all along. Further, the biggest problem with his "Not running away" stand is that in the grand scheme of things, how much of a functional purpose did it play for the mission? Oh, we had characters say Eddie and Dustin were playing their part in the mission, but when Eddie made his stand, it did not have the impact intended (that, and many of the bats flew right past Eddie, or ignored him), so how effective was his plan?

Will: Tease after tease after tease, the Duffers dragged Will's "revelation" on throughout the season, with a number of teases in E9 alone; it seems like the Duffers were not only aware of the social media discussion about Will and his alleged sexuality, but they played up on it with moments of conveniently interrupted conversations, longing looks, statements that were written to sound if his feeling were about friendship, rather than romantic love, etc. So, after two seasons of fans playing the "Is Will gay?" guessing game, they are still left with no answer whatsoever.

Overall, the fourth season of Stranger Things was not that much of an improvement over season three; both had strong nuggets that should have been larger parts of the plot, while the central conflict--in this case, Vecna--was not as threatening as the imagery would have anyone believe, and if he's returning for the final season, will he be an interesting antagonist from start to finish? Who knows.

Regarding character deaths just about all ST fans are thinking about / forecasting for the final season, I would be content if S5 steered clear of that plot device.
 
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