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[Bones2]

Vengeance on Varos

Good stuff. 3/5 as far as Who goes. 5/5 for Colin's era.

3/5 as far as Who goes? You talk as if it's a rare showing of competence compared to the classic pre-JNT years rather than what it really is, which is one of the best DW stories ever. There's certainly nothing better in the Davison era (Caves aside, possibly Earthshock), and I probably couldn't name 5 Toms I prefer either.

On the subject of Sil, Nabil Shaban's a friend on Facebook. He spends most of the time going on about how he hates Israel.

 

[Captain Pike]

I swear, these sixth doctor fans live in their own little world. I prefer practically 90% of Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee or Tom's and maybe 1/3 of Davison stories to Varos... It and Revelation.. are the only 2 Colin stories during the broadcast run that were any good at all imo. They weren't masterpieces or anything, but I'd call 'em good.

Now his Big Finish audios are another matter entirely, but the TV shows? Mostly hard to stomache if you ask me.

ETA - Sorry, I just got a bit ranty. Carry on.

ETA2 - Oh and Mark of the Rani ain't too bad either, I guess.. andTimelash is amusing purely because of Darrow's overacting (though I'd hardly call it 'good' by any stretch).

 

[Starkers]

^I think there's more than a hint that people like 6 because it's an unpopular choice to make, it's the fan equivalent of going out with a boy/girlfriend your parents don't approve of

Anyway, lets leave Six behind for a moment and move on to Seven.

The Curse of Fenric:

Oh how I love this story. Is it perfect, no but what story is. It clearly had to have quite a lot chopped out of it (various random scenes play like they're referring to something we haven't seen), some bits are just plain strange (the idea of Ace growing up and seducing the guard is great, the execution is slightly odd. Most surreal chat up lines ever!) and the heomovore makeup isn't brilliant.

But the good far outweighs the bad.

I'm not always the greatest fan of McCoy, but he's spot on here, all knowing and Machiavellian, nasty when he has to be in order to break Ace's faith in him, playing an unbelievably long game.

Ace has truly grown up here. Long gone is the cringe worthy wicked cool teenager and we have a fully rounded companion in her wake, quite clearly the proto-new series companion (she even has a horrible mum ) Not to forget how hot Sophie looks in 40s getup.

A great cast. The guys playing Judson and Sorin both do a wonderful job of playing Fenric as well. Millington is deliciously unhinged, and though people might disagree the two black hearted girls are quite effective I think, shame about the nails, they detract. Oh and Nicholas Parsons, wonderful portrayal as the conflicted vicar.

People go on about Murray Gold and how classic Who never had any decent soundtracks, but the musical score for this episode is spot on, eerie, spooky and not remotely intrusive (which lets be fair is the main reason people can claim classic Who had no decent music, it didn't hit them over the head!).

The direction is good as well, and a lot of the graveyard shots in particular are very effective, as is the underwater work. It's a real shame the series was cancelled when it was getting back to telling stories like this.

 

[Bones2]

^I think there's more than a hint that people like 6 because it's an unpopular choice to make, it's the fan equivalent of going out with a boy/girlfriend your parents don't approve of

No, no I like him because of the character. And at least he had one, which was surely a welcome relief after jim-jam wearing Doctor Beige. It also seems people are having a hard time separating the quality of the stories from whether they like the Doctor who's in it. You're probably all well aware that I think Eccleston is the worst of the lot, but I still recognise The Unquiet Dead and Dalek as great stories.

Still, Curse of Fenric is indeed terrific. Probably the best McCoy story. Nicholas Parsons is surprisingly good, and it's very effective despite being completely shot during daytime.

 

[Starkers]

I like Varos even though Colin isn't my favourite Doctor. On the whole though I don't like his era, I kinda stopped watching Who once Davison regenerated.

And being loud and obnoxious all the time doesn't neccesarily equate to character, Davison had loads, he was just subtle about it.

 

[Bones2]

And being loud and obnoxious all the time doesn't neccesarily equate to character

I thought you liked Tegan

Davison had loads, he was just subtle about it.

Really though? Subtlety implies there are moments of depth and substance if you look closer than superficially. I certainly see very little of that with Davison.

As for comparing Davo and Colin's times, if we take season 22 as Colin's only full season, I think it stands up better as a whole than any of Davo's. It's got two solid classics in Varo and Revelation, and a higher overall quality than any of Davison's years. But as I said before, there's not necessarily a correlation with good stories and a good Doctor. I just happen to think that with Colin there was in contrast to the previous 3 years.

 

[Starkers]

And being loud and obnoxious all the time doesn't neccesarily equate to character

I thought you liked Tegan

I do, she was loud and obnoxious and wore a short skirt.

 

[Stevil2001]

I like Colin Baker a lot, but I think even his well-regarded stories are awful. Revelation of the Daleks is practically a blow-by-blow depiction of how to write an uninteresting Doctor Who story; last time I watched it, I gave up halfway through.

 

[Starkers]

I know I have seen Revalation (its the one with the two mercenary assasins isn't it?) I always remember quite liking it but it has been a while...

 

[DimesDan]

I decided to watch Earthshock today, it's ok, the cybers are better here than in new Who although I'm glad they didn't keep that whole being killed by Gold thing and that child who snuffed it at the end, was he always that annoying?

 

[Captain Pike]

that child who snuffed it at the end, was he always that annoying?

Yep.

 

[Starkers]

Oh come on guys, was Adric really that annoying? Guys? Guys....guys!

 

[DimesDan]

Oh come on guys, was Adric really that annoying? Guys? Guys....guys!

when he died and managed to wipe out the Dinosaurs, I cheered.

 

[The]

^As did the rest of fandom...

3/5 as far as Who goes? You talk as if it's a rare showing of competence compared to the classic pre-JNT years rather than what it really is, which is one of the best DW stories ever.

Not at all. In fact, it had very little substance to it. Even back in the day when the plot was relevant. The Doctor, as a character in this story, could only be congratulated by surviving. He offered more or less nothing else, except to confirm that the minerals were valuable to others besides Sil (and how the Varosians didn't know that, I don't know). So, in comparison to the entirety of Who, yes, it's 3 out of 5. It's not as bad as Time and the Rani, Timelash, or Time-Flight (I'm beginning to see a pattern here). But, there is nothing in the episode to elevate it beyond the superficial layer of a social allegory it presents. And it is the prophetic nature of the story that actually gives it a bump up from 2 out of 5. Colin was excellent, as usual. Peri's boobs were excellent, as usual. Sil was off the chain. Everything else was what it was.

There's certainly nothing better in the Davison era (Caves aside, possibly Earthshock), and I probably couldn't name 5 Toms I prefer either.

I quite liked the ideas behind Castrovalva, and would enjoy watching that repeatedly. And have since it aired through the miracle of foresight and a VCR. This was my first trip back to Varos, and I've also had a copy of that on tape since the day it aired in America. So, I would say your assertion is purely subjective.

As for five Tom's better than Varos?

• Robots of Death
• Genesis of the Daleks
• The Hand of Fear
• Talons of Weng-Chiang
• City of Death

All masterpieces well above and beyond Varos' limited scope.

On the subject of Sil, Nabil Shaban's a friend on Facebook. He spends most of the time going on about how he hates Israel.

I could care less about his politics. I just want him to return Sil to us...

 

[Starkers]

^As did the rest of fandom...

A friend of mine cried (she was only about 11 or something) and I think I was quite shocked. Did fandom at the time cheer, or only fandom in hindsight?

Serious question, did people really hate Adric back in the day, or is it a more recent thang?

 

[Captain Pike]

A lot did hate him at the time. I, for one, liked him. Nowdays, not so much..

 

[The]

I found him annoying back then. Now I find him annoying AND a horrible actor...

 

[jbny67]

I never liked Adric at all.
I remember feeling worse for the dinosaurs than I did for him at the end of that episode.

 

[starsuperion]

I just watched the 2 doctors on daily motion.. wow! What a fantastic story! Though, I would have thought the Androgums would have been more believeable as alien human eaters if they had say blue skin or something..

the fact that they looked human, and were talking about eating humans was a bit unbelievable since they looked just like a human with a few minor differences..he kept saying primitive beast..

come on, he almost looked like one of them..

other then that I can say that Jaime was still young looking, which was pretty cool..that actor aged very well..and the 2ND doctor had a timeless look.. had they coloured his hair it would have been like he never got old..

colin got to shed that nasty jacket, and was in a fit shape..he was great in that episode.. Quite reminiscent of the 4th incarnation at times with a bit of the 5th thrown in..

the Sontarans were a bit off in their make up.. but overall I got a good "Modern General Stall" feel that made me smile..much more like the current series in their voice tones, then the invasion of time weezing sontarans..

I highly recommend the 2 doctors as a great special! the last appearance of the 2nd doctor in that role.. by the way, all the episodes where the doctor meets himself are cool..

I can watch over and over again the 3 doctors.. I love Omega's appearance..plus I get to see Patrick in colour and with recorder in hand with the great John pertwee..

come to think of it, I still prefer the older Tardis.. it was plain, and colourless, but it was cool, and felt superior, and yet wasn't a focus of the show.. it was kinda mute enough to make you center on the doctor's performance, yet you wanted a Tardis for your own, and kinda knew what to expect from the machine..it was like home..

Now I feel like we went from a sterile futuristic alien ship to a coral reef under the ocean in the Bahamas, finally ending up with a lava lamp...

sorry tend to ramble when I am passionate..

back on topic..

Bottom line, Loved the 2 Doctors, production values were excellent, loved the series, and recommend it to anyone..

Peri is a bit annoying though... "Doctor! I don't Understand!" if not for the awesome tied shirt with rack exploited.. I would hate her incessant whining..

as it was, I was in cleavage heaven for half the story...

after watching it online, I am going to buy that DVD..for sure..

 

[Starkers]

Oh well to each his own but I'm no great fan of the Two Doctors. Aside from the fact that Colin does become a better Doctor when he takes the coat off!

The Scottish alien red head canibal thing is just ridiculous, as is the scientist's Brains look (although I'm aware the actor needed glasses) the Sontarons are wasted and look horrible.

Oh and the senseless death of whatshisname was just poor, there was no reason for it.

Nice to see Jamie and the 2nd Doctor again tho...