Stillborn Sulu Show

[Dukhat]

The bottom line on the ratings is that TNG is the only Trek series to ever be a consistent success in its initial run with a general viewing audience. Something about it connected with the viewing public in a way that the other shows did not. I think today we often forget how successful TNG was and how much of a gulf there was overall between the shows. TNG was regularly pulling numbers that rivaled Monday Night Football.

Personally, I think Paramount made a big mistake shifting TNG to the big screen. First Contact was its only real big success in that venue, and none of the other shows were able to duplicate its ratings on the small screen. The folks at Paramount seemed to think that because TNG was a hit, anything with "Star Trek" attached to it would automatically be a hit as well. If nothing else, TFF should have shown them that was not the case.

I also agree that the TNG films were a mistake. But the TOS crew were done with making movies, and Paramount wanted their Kirk-meets-Picard story to springboard the big-screen cash cows that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were no longer providing. Then it just became the Picard & Data show.

AGT was the perfect ending to TNG. If I never saw those characters again, I would have been happy with that.

 

[Ogrebear]

Please explain how UPN would have made a better show with Sulu than they did with Janeway. Because I’m pretty sure it would have been the same show just with a different crew and ship, just like ENT was like VOY but with a different crew and ship. Like what @CorporalCaptain said, the problem was UPN being formulaic. Sulu and the TOS movie aesthetic would not have changed a thing in that regard.

Because that is my opinion on the matter.

I think the known movie era, the more familiar Cold War/post Cold War themes, etc would have made for a much more compelling and interesting show than Voyager. I think in the 1991-2 timeframe there would have been a chance of a decent show.

Sure, the execs may have meddled, sure, it might have been episodic, but this happened with TNG and it turned out great.

We simply do not know how a Sulu show would have gone and supposition that it would have merely been Voyager is a mighty leap.

 

[Ogrebear]

That claim is not supported by the facts either. See the chart. VOY had worse ratings overall than DS9 did.

I cannot see the chart as it is on Imagr which is blocked in the UK.

What is the source of the numbers they are using?

 

[Ogrebear]

Voyager's ratings were not better than DS9's.

Steve Shives has figures that said otherwise.

 

[Set Harth]

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I cannot see the chart as it is on Imagr which is blocked in the UK.

What is the source of the numbers they are using?

Perhaps the poster who posted it, @Firebird, can give more assistance.

 

[Dukhat]

Because that is my opinion on the matter.

I think the known movie era, the more familiar Cold War/post Cold War themes, etc would have made for a much more compelling and interesting show than Voyager. I think in the 1991-2 timeframe there would have been a chance of a decent show.

Sure, the execs may have meddled, sure, it might have been episodic, but this happened with TNG and it turned out great.

We simply do not know how a Sulu show would have gone and supposition that it would have merely been Voyager is a mighty leap.

I get that it’s your opinion. However, we have two shows (VOY and ENT) produced by the same network that would have produced your hypothetical Sulu show, and knowing what we know about UPN’s thought processes, we can absolutely extrapolate that a Sulu show would be little different.

 

[Firebird]

I cannot see the chart as it is on Imagr which is blocked in the UK.

What is the source of the numbers they are using?

IIRC, the original graph was generated using publicly-available Nielsen ratings data.

 

[PCz911]

Let me ask another question…. There seems to be some degree of antipathy towards George Takei , the person, on trekbbs. Does anyone think that this might be (consciously or unconsciously) biasing the thoughts on a Captain Sulu show?

 

[Dukhat]

Let me ask another question…. There seems to be some degree of antipathy towards George Takei , the person, on trekbbs. Does anyone think that this might be (consciously or unconsciously) biasing the thoughts on a Captain Sulu show?

No. I like George Takei just fine, as his feud with Shatner doesn't affect my life whatsoever and I don't know him personally.

With that said, I stand by my assertion that a Sulu show, produced by UPN, would have been no different than what we got with VOY and ENT.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The bottom line on the ratings is that TNG is the only Trek series to ever be a consistent success in its initial run with a general viewing audience. Something about it connected with the viewing public in a way that the other shows did not. I think today we often forget how successful TNG was and how much of a gulf there was overall between the shows. TNG was regularly pulling numbers that rivaled Monday Night Football.

I've said a few times before that I think '94 was "the peak" of Star Trek. I saw a few days ago that "All Good Things..." is among television's top 20 highest rated series finales, which I would not have thought, frankly. When i think back on '94, it felt like the moment for the franchise.

Personally, I think Paramount made a big mistake shifting TNG to the big screen.

On the one hand, the cast was signed for an eighth season.

On the other hand, Paramount wanting a network of their own (UPN) forced the issue of ending TNG.

On the gripping hand, TNG was kinda tired in the seventh season.

I agree with what @Dukhat says later in the thread, that "AGT" would have been a fine final outing for that crew. I don't believe their movies ever justified their existence, and I never really needed to see them again.

But I do think that TNG could actually have run longer if they had shaken up the cast. Worf still goes to Deep Space Nine. Data gets a promotion to XO on another ship. Riker gets his own command. People move on in their careers. New crew will come aboard when the Enterprise stops at a starbase. I have long felt there should have been more cast turnover than there was, and the show could have run longer if there had been.

First Contact was its only real big success in that venue, and none of the other shows were able to duplicate its ratings on the small screen. The folks at Paramount seemed to think that because TNG was a hit, anything with "Star Trek" attached to it would automatically be a hit as well. If nothing else, TFF should have shown them that was not the case.

Paramount's idea was, "We can make cheap Star Trek movies with this popular crew!" Only, the films weren't cheaper, and the films (imho) are just television reunion films with a budget.

With that said, I stand by my assertion that a Sulu show, produced by UPN, would have been no different than what we got with VOY and ENT.

This is key. It would have been made by the same people as Voyager in a hypothetical 1995. There is the slim possibility that Berman says no to making a Star Trek series for UPN to launch with and the studio finds a different producer for the series -- I recall Berman saying at the time that if he said no that's what would have happened -- but otherwise, "Sulu '95" is going to get made out of the same office, with the same people, as Voyager. Winrich Kolbe probably directs the pilot.