Creatively bankrupt train wrecks don't produce two sequential films that were both critical and financial successes.
Oh, and since you're felling prophetic, can you please hit me up with next week's Powerball?
STID's plot holes unrivaled?
- Thread starter Mountie1988
- Start date
Oh, and since you're felling prophetic, can you please hit me up with next week's Powerball?
I figure it's pretty tit for tat.
The "Three dimensional thinking shit gets me everytime. Really, really? That's the big "trick"? Khan never flew in a plane or dealt with submarines when he was a world leader, or for that matter none of his people? Or, how about the chance that mister superior intellect, might browse a book or two on basic Starfleet tactics or Starship operation? How the fuck was he getting anywhere if he couldn't think to command his ship in 3 dimensions? This never came up when he read the Enterprise's tech manuals in Space Seed? "Starshp Navigation for Dummies?" No, never?
And we know he has access to Enterprise design specs: He knew where to blow holes through the refit...the refit that is an "Almost totally new Enterprise" that would have shit in different places from the version Khan is familiar with. And in all the studying the FUCKING PREFIX CODE never came up in his research?
This is why I don't worry about analyzing a Trek movie to much. I'll rip 'em apart if I do.
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Three cheers also for Abram's apologists! Bless you laddies and lasses. Trek's going to the gutter and we're all cheering and singing its praises!
(emphasis mine)
You can polish a turd but it will still remain a turd. When the third NuTrek film comes out you'll see what has happened, just give it a few years. I and quite a few fans are ahead of the curve you see, we know where this trainwreck is going and we understand why Star Trek is -- at this moment -- creatively bankrupt.
But I'll give you one clue- style over substance.
I do hope that this is not going to turn out to be be one of those threads.
So long as we can keep it to the topic of plot holes (real or imagined,) this thread will continue. If I get the notion that people are participating less for the discussion and more for taking swipes at people whose opinions about the movie they do not share, then this thread will be closed, and warnings may ensue.
Ln X, you seem to have a habit of appearing in this forum only when there's an opportunity for taking little swipes and jabs at the people who enjoyed the movie (while ostensibly posting in praise or support of an opinion expressed by another); you'll want to be extra-careful, or the first warning could be yours.
And not just critical success either.Creatively bankrupt train wrecks don't produce two sequential films that were both critical and financial successes.
Oh, and since you're felling prophetic, can you please hit me up with next week's Powerball?
User Average from Metacritic: 7.9/10
User Average from IMDB: 8/10
User Average from RT: 91% Liked It -- Average 4/5
It is pretty obvious that such people are in the vocal minority here. To say that 'people' don't like it isn't very accurate. I think at the very least users who make such claims should use 'some people' don't like it.
Oh, I dunno, forgetting that you have 70 odd magic blood men sitting right there whilst you risk life and limb chasing after Khan is pretty spectacular.
Really, the history of human warfare has persisted in a three-dimensional theater. "Do we take the hill or march through the valley?" That sort of thing.
And beyond sub-maritime is aerial combat, which was was most likely the preferred form of battle in Khan's time. All three dimensions play a HUGE form everything to sortie deployment to the biggest furball dogfights.
On top of all that, as I've pointed out a bazillion-and-one time "space" is literally has "three dimensions" in its definition. To suggest Khan is completely oblivious to the "up and down" of celestial combat, is just plain dumb.
This is exactly it.
Of the twelve films, the only one to really escape the clutches of the plot-hole monster is the first one. But even TMP is not without its scars.
The others are littered with plot holes and inconsistencies and logic blunders that can leave big red palm prints on the foreheads of those who aren't careful.
But so what? Despite some of the false rhetoric that seems to lurk, the Star Trek film franchise's primary priority has always been to entertain. And they all do ... even Nemesis.
Like I say, don't get me into actually analyzing a Trek movie. I love Star Trek, but I can rip it's heart out if I get to overthinking it.
Another one: Starfleet is full of morons.
"You know Jim, you're right your crew is all trainees. hmmm. We lost contact with Reliant a few hours ago too. Might be connected to what is going on with Regula One. You head for Regula One, the Yorktown is two days away and will meet up with you there. Try to stay out of trouble till she arrives."
Now we have the first fight as is. Second fight: Khan rounds the planetoid and starring down the gun deck of two pissed of starships.
Instead...
Trainees? Fuck let 'em have their fun you go handle it.
I can understand some disagreements on the perceived qualities of the various iterations of Trek. But it's starting to get out of hand. It feels like some folks are coming to this forum just for the chance to pick a fight.
I'm not a huge fan of Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise but I don't feel the need to rush into those forums and take a dump on something other people obviously enjoy.
It's starting to feel mean-spirited and I really think that is sad.
I'm not a huge fan of Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise but I don't feel the need to rush into those forums and take a dump on something other people obviously enjoy.
It's starting to feel mean-spirited and I really think that is sad.
A thing to remember too:
Star Trek has survived. Every time.
It survived after 3 seasons on NBC in the 60's. It survived TMP. It survived TNG. It survived TFF. It survived DS9, VOY and ENT. It survived NEM.
What people are complaining about now have what other fans have complained about before, and about the very same flavors of Trek many here love and despise.
Abrams version of Trek will last for its time, just as Roddenberry's, Bennett's and Berman's. A new person will take up the reigns and the argument will start up again.
Star Trek has survived. Every time.
It survived after 3 seasons on NBC in the 60's. It survived TMP. It survived TNG. It survived TFF. It survived DS9, VOY and ENT. It survived NEM.
What people are complaining about now have what other fans have complained about before, and about the very same flavors of Trek many here love and despise.
Abrams version of Trek will last for its time, just as Roddenberry's, Bennett's and Berman's. A new person will take up the reigns and the argument will start up again.
Pretty big assumption to think they all have the inhanced healing ability.
Bingo. It took a couple hours (give or take) to revive the tribble. Assuming they all got it (which he doesn't know if they do or don't), how long after thawing before whatever it is in the blood if viable again? Bones didn't have the time, what he did have was a ready to use source on tap so long as Spock didn't kill him first.
More than that he stated that he did not know how to defrost the guys in cryotubes. Bones would never have taken chances and killed one of them.
Just one of many examples where NuTrek is perfectly in line with GoodOl'Trek by the way
STID Plot holes the worst?
Need I continue?
- Reliant crew can't tell planets apart
- Ceti Eels make one "susceptible to suggestion"...but only to Khan's suggestions
- Manhatten Project-esque Genesis Project is endangered and Kirk putters to the rescue at...warp 5
- Manhatten Project-esque Genesis Project is endangered, Kirk wonders who's "taking Genesis" and when he encounters a starship that isn't behaving normally he doesn't act suspicious
- Five-digit prefix code where no two numbers can be repeated...worst encryption ever
- "They put creatures in our bodies to control our minds," "You're safe now," WHAT? Kirk isn't the only one who's gone senile
- "Hours would seem like days"...so much for the superior intellect
Need I continue?
They're men what do you expect?
As far as I'm concerned TWOK and every other Star Trek movie barring TMP was loaded with plotholes. However Khan not killing Kirk immediately was not one of them. The premise in TWOK was that Khan had become unhinged. He unreasonably wanted revenge on Kirk and sure he wanted to kill Kirk when that was his only option but when the opportunity arose he decided to make Kirk suffer. Not a plothole.
Why didn't the Borg queen convert Picard as soon as she could in FC? She also wanted to make him suffer/see the light for a bit.
I could list at laest 20 plotholes from each Star Trek movie, or any Star Wars movie, Avengers movie if I knew/loved the background well enough.
Guilty admission: when I stumbled on this thread, I thought it was a typo. I honestly thought the title was supposed to read 'unraveled' or 'revealed'. Thus I was hoping for enlightenment, having posted several concerns about the events of STiD elsewhere in this forum.
IMO we as franchise fans nitpick more than general audiences. It's our culture. Some of my nitpicks have been addressed by the wisdom of others here, other questions still bother me. BUT back to the OP, are the plot holes 'unrivaled'?
No. Not even close. Sure the movie has it's share of head-scratchers as do most of the films, but at some point we have to sit back and remember that this is science fiction. It's all a plot hole.
IMO we as franchise fans nitpick more than general audiences. It's our culture. Some of my nitpicks have been addressed by the wisdom of others here, other questions still bother me. BUT back to the OP, are the plot holes 'unrivaled'?
No. Not even close. Sure the movie has it's share of head-scratchers as do most of the films, but at some point we have to sit back and remember that this is science fiction. It's all a plot hole.
I could dump part of a letter I wrote to SFDebris regarding STiD's plot holes/stupidity if you want.
I'd love to read that.
The problem is that every Star Trek fan -- irrespective of what series he likes -- watches the movies. The reason why this STID division is bigger than most is because it ain't a clash of different ST, it's a clash of quality or even the Star Wars vs Star Trek argument.
The first group appears rather happy with what is a rather average, at best, movie. While the second group sees STID for what it is and is one more Star Trek film running on vapours. The same kind of vapours which had Nemisis, VOY and ENT limping along.
I think the biggest point of contention is that STID suffers from this post-millennial malaise where films pass muster with alright characters, a threadbare plot and some decent action scenes. But older films have done such things in a far better way and Star Trek is not supposed to be Star Wars. There is something more fundamentally amiss with STID which is far bigger than the potential problem being a different series, a different cast or something.
Finally to SeerSGB. You are absolutely right about the fact that if you think really hard you can rip any Trek film to pieces and find like several or so major plot holes. But why not tally up all the plotholes in STID, I bet the final number would be greater than either Star Trek V, Insurrection or Nemesis!
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