STID 5th anniversary

[WarpFactorZ]

I think one of the worst features of JJ Trek that makes it somewhat ridiculous is that it takes place in "dog years". That is, 1 year in the Kelvinverse is 7 years in human years. Everything is accelerated -- promotions, friendships, life, death, etc...

As pointed out above, this hurts the impact of Kirk's death. The crew has really only been together for what, 6 months? The only person who was really friends with Kirk for any longer period of time was McCoy, through the Academy. Spock: hated him. Uhura: hated him. Sulu? Chekov? Didn't even meet him until the mission to Vulcan.

Comapred to TWOK's death scene, this was amateur hour.

 

[BillJ]

Comapred to TWOK's death scene, this was amateur hour.

TWOK is vastly overrated. I actually like Into Darkness better.

 

[Kor]

I've said elsewhere, there's a great film in there. I just found the callouts to TWOK cringe-inducing. As an old TOS fan who saw TWOK in the theaters, I'm not sure if it was a good call to appeal to nostalgia in this one. We hadn't really come to know this new crew enough, so NuKirk's sacrifice didn't have the emotional pull of Spock's in TWOK. I also felt it was backtracking to yet again have Kirk getting demoted be a part of the plot. It's choppy in terms of character growth.

That said, there's a lot to love. I wasn't crazy about it being Khan, but Bandycoot Cumberbund was great as usual, and I liked the timely message of the film, about becoming our enemies. STID is my least favorite of the new films, but I still pop it in the DVD player much more often than I will the TNG movies.

I know a casual viewer who was totally unfamiliar with any Star Trek and hadn't even seen ST09, yet thoroughly loved and enjoyed "Into Darkness" without having the foggiest idea that there were any blatant call-backs to some older Trek movie. I'm sure there were plenty of other viewers who enjoyed it on that level.

Kor

 

[saddestmoon]

I loved watching STID 5 years ago (where did the time go!)

And I still love it!

That scene where the Vengeance emerges from warp in front of the enterprise - and then the subsequent warp chase that ensues - are both incredible!

and Cumberbatch as Khan! Pure gold!

 

[Admiral Archer]

I love almost every aspect of this movie, and it is my favorite of the Kelvinverse films. For me the only Star Trek films that can top it are Star Trek: The Motion Picture and Star Trek First Contact.

 

[fireproof78]

TWOK is vastly overrated. I actually like Into Darkness better.

Very much this.

 

[Trekkin]

I don’t know if I’d ‘rate’ it higher than TWOK. But it’s certainly towards the very top of my Trek movie list. And yes, I’m well aware that might be interpreted as damning with faint praise. It’s not.

I kinda thought it was closer to a reworking of FC than anything. One that I thought tackled it’s issues in a slightly more satisfying way.

Picard ultimately got to harpoon his white whale, found closure through that, and lost absolutely nothing.

Kirk ultimately chose the high road with Khan, but still lost everything (even if some of it was only briefly) as a consequence of earlier bad decisions. Carol really did lose everything as collateral damage. Khan fucks himself over through whole-heartedly embracing his emotional extremes, whilst Spock nearly caused the permanent his friend through sheer rage.

Even though both do cop-out of the (most thematically satisfying) Moby Dick ending, I found STID at least avoided undermining it’s ‘vengeance for vengeance sake is bad’ message.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Wow! 5 years since my favorite Trek movie (and favorite incarnation of Khan debuted)... where does the time go?

 

[Gavin70]

I'm not sure if it was a good call to appeal to nostalgia in this one. We hadn't really come to know this new crew enough, so NuKirk's sacrifice didn't have the emotional pull of Spock's in TWOK.

This was my feeling too. When TWOK came out we'd had 15 years from the original episodes plus animated series plus extended universe novels to develop the relationship between Kirk and Spock to the point where Spock's death was truly heartwrenching. With STID the relationship had only developed over not quite 2 full movies and the idea that the relationship between Spock and Kirk had developed to the point where Spock would be so upset by Kirk's death felt forced.

To be honest I'm not really sure why those involved felt the need to redo TWOK. It didn't provide anything of value to new fans and only pissed off fans of the original. It should have been a brand new villain.

 

[The Wormhole]

I'd rather watch Picard dance the mambo and sing HMS Pinafore for 20 mins than watch the conclusion of ID.

In all honesty, I liked the HMS Pinafore scene.

To be honest I'm not really sure why those involved felt the need to redo TWOK. It didn't provide anything of value to new fans and only pissed off fans of the original. It should have been a brand new villain.

Although I am generally against the idea of using Khan, particularly considering they had developed an original villain and then decided to make him Khan, I actually can see some of the logic behind the decision. From First Contact on wards every Star Trek movie has been about revenge. FC actually inverted that by making Picard, the hero, the vengeful one, but Insurrection onwards the villains have pissed off douchebags bent on revenge. Since the Trek films are so intent on doing another Khan, why not actually bring back Khan? That they finally actually did with STID I thought "well, at least they have that out of their system." Then Beyond gives us another pissed off douchebag bent on revenge for its villain.

 

[fireproof78]

This was my feeling too. When TWOK came out we'd had 15 years from the original episodes plus animated series plus extended universe novels to develop the relationship between Kirk and Spock to the point where Spock's death was truly heartwrenching. With STID the relationship had only developed over not quite 2 full movies and the idea that the relationship between Spock and Kirk had developed to the point where Spock would be so upset by Kirk's death felt forced.

To be honest I'm not really sure why those involved felt the need to redo TWOK. It didn't provide anything of value to new fans and only pissed off fans of the original. It should have been a brand new villain.

It carries a theme of so much death in Spock's life. The breaking point, as it were of loss, as well the fact that Kirk finally understood Spock and his sacrifice. It was a heart wrenching scene for me.

Also, Star Trek has lived in the shadow of TWOK's success for forever. As @The Wormhole pointed out, it's been a recurring theme in Trek films. FC did well enough subverting the Captain Ahab trope, but Nemesis pretty much did an aping of TWOK as well.

Khan is considered most iconic villain, so it honestly doesn't surprise me that in an alternate timeline film he would make a reappearance. STID at least had him not be the villain largely until the third act after he kills off Marcus. More interesting than the straight revenge plot of TWOK.

 

[BillJ]

In all honesty, I liked the HMS Pinafore scene.

I did too. The only part of Insurrection that I found entertaining.

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[The Wormhole]

The bit where the shuttles are show flying in formation with everyone singing is so surreal it's awesome! A shame such a great sequence was wasted in a crappy movie.

 

[ItIsGreen]

I will argue to my dying breath that Insurrection is not a crappy movie.

 

[M-Red]

ID is probably my least favorite of the Kelvin films, but I still really enjoy it despite its flaws. It's a good space fantasy movie.

I actually think some of ID's problems are a result of ST09 and the way they chose to end that story. The ending of ID --where Kirk and crew are blasting off on a 5-year mission --should have been the ending of ST09.

That would have allowed the creators to place the Enterprise "out there" throughout all of STID, and made the crew more reliant on one another than being able to fall back on Earth and SF HQ. That said, I think the opening sequence of STID is one of the best sequences in the 50+ year history of the franchise. It's Trek at its very best.

The crew interactions are superb for me, and I really appreciated going to Qo'noS and seeing the Klingons unmasked and in a fight scene. Kirk and Khan flying through space in their suits is an awesome concept they executed perfectly. Cumberbatch proved to be an excellent addition, and very much pulled off the Superiority angle needed for his character to thrive.

There are some other creative choices I would have changed, but it's in no way of "remake" of TWOK. Not at all. Overall, STID has grown on me in the last 5 years and it's a film that's now highly rewatchable for me just like the other Kelvin films.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I still think that movie is the template of how Star Trek movies should look like. Big budget, beautiful scenery, a signature Warp speed effect, and young, well fit performers wearing lean outfits. Also having fun making the movie look... alien was cool for me. I've never seen Trek look that good before besides Star Trek which was A NEW HOPE redressed.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The ending of ID --where Kirk and crew are blasting off on a 5-year mission --should have been the ending of ST09.

I was annoyed that ID's very ending was so very very close to ST'09's. It kinda felt like the whole thing was a mini-story that took place between the last scenes of that movie.

 

[fireproof78]

That would have allowed the creators to place the Enterprise "out there" throughout all of STID, and made the crew more reliant on one another than being able to fall back on Earth and SF HQ. That said, I think the opening sequence of STID is one of the best sequences in the 50+ year history of the franchise. It's Trek at its very best.

While I agree with the majority of your post, this part stood out. The Nibiru sequence as beautifully shot, felt very TOS to me with the action adventure, the dilemma of leaving Spock for dead, and warping off to another adventure. Very well done.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I did too. The only part of Insurrection that I found entertaining.

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Wow. I have absolutely no memory of that scene. Probably better off that way...

 

[pst]

The ending of ID --where Kirk and crew are blasting off on a 5-year mission --should have been the ending of ST09.

i thought that was the ending of star trek 09. i mean until it wasn’t.