Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Series

[The Wormhole]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Moffat is already hesitant over using River Song again and if he's doing that, my sense is that the Paternost gang is just used to transition fans from Smith over to Capaldi. Very likely, this first episode will be the very last time we see Vastra, Jenny and Strax.

I'll be very surprised if this is intended to be the last time we see them. I doubt Moffat would have killed the characters and resurrected them in Name of the Doctor just to bring them back for one more appearance and then never revisit them again.

 

[Green Lantern]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

I hope they all die.

 

[Worf2DS9]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

I like the Paternoster Gang and I'm glad we'll be seeing them in the new series. I still would like to see a spin-off show with them.

Me too, even along the lines of a short-run special mini-series. Heck, I'd even take a Big Finish audio series with them. Seems to have worked with Jago & Litefoot, and they could even do crossover stories with J&L from time to time.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Moffat is already hesitant over using River Song again

I'd be more than willing to bet that that has more do with Alex Kingston's (lack of) availability than anything else - she's in Arrow now, and is about to start a run of Macbeth in New York with Ken Branagh.

If Lem (the Papal Mainframe woman) in Time Of The Doctor wasn't originally, in some draft, written as a post-Library River which got changed cos Kingston wasn't available, I'll eat *all* of my hats.

The same way I don't see Rose/11 I have trouble with River/12, just doesn't feel right. It'd be interesting though to see how the character works without the "cougar" angle. It's hard to imagine Capaldi being put-upon as the previous incarnations.

 

[Worf2DS9]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

^ That's kind of how I feel about Jenny coming back from "The Doctor's Daughter." It would have worked most ideally with Tennant still playing the Doctor. It might have been interesting with Smith, but just not the same. Likewise now with Capaldi. That said, by this point it's probably likely we'll never see her again anyway.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

^ I agree Jenny is unlikely but with Capaldi being older and perhaps being more paternal that might bring a different bent to the story if they did reintroduce her.

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Casual viewers probably don't even remember Jenny. Bringing her back at this point would just be odd.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Casual viewers wouldn't have known about the Great Intelligence or the Zygons either. They still came back.

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Casual viewers wouldn't have known about the Great Intelligence or the Zygons either. They still came back.

Sure, but it's easier to get away with that. We weren't expected to remember the Great Intelligence or the Zygons; we didn't need to know anything about them. They were basically re-introduced as brand new villains.

"Last of the Time Lords" is the Doctor's thing. Yes, we know Jenny is out there zipping around the universe, but at this point I think too much time has passed (and too many Doctors) for it to make much sense to bring her back, especially since the Doctor thinks she's dead.

I'm not saying you can't make it work, but I think it would be difficult.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Casual viewers wouldn't have known about the Great Intelligence or the Zygons either. They still came back.

Sure, but it's easier to get away with that. We weren't expected to remember the Great Intelligence or the Zygons; we didn't need to know anything about them. They were basically re-introduced as brand new villains.

"Last of the Time Lords" is the Doctor's thing. Yes, we know Jenny is out there zipping around the universe, but at this point I think too much time has passed (and too many Doctors) for it to make much sense to bring her back, especially since the Doctor thinks she's dead.

I'm not saying you can't make it work, but I think it would be difficult.

*Shrug* They brought Sarah Jane back after 30 years and 6 Doctors. It could work with Jenny.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

I'm just saying that many stories are about the return of people or things from the characters' past, even if those people or things haven't been seen before. For instance, the Meddling Monk, the Master, and the Rani were all previously known to the Doctor when they were introduced for the first time. So whether a character has been featured in previous episodes or not really shouldn't have much bearing on whether it would work to bring them back. As long as the new story is written in a way that's accessible to new or forgetful audiences, as long as everything important to the story is explained, it shouldn't make much difference.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

The same way I don't see Rose/11 I have trouble with River/12, just doesn't feel right. It'd be interesting though to see how the character works without the "cougar" angle. It's hard to imagine Capaldi being put-upon as the previous incarnations.

Never really got a cougar vibe from 11/River. Even with the Mrs. Robinson joke.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

The same way I don't see Rose/11 I have trouble with River/12, just doesn't feel right. It'd be interesting though to see how the character works without the "cougar" angle. It's hard to imagine Capaldi being put-upon as the previous incarnations.

Never really got a cougar vibe from 11/River. Even with the Mrs. Robinson joke.

For me it's the older woman combined with her being aggressive and sexual vs. the more innocent nature of the Doctor who thinks bunk beds are cool. I always felt like she was driving that relationship. Even the whole "sweetie" thing always seemed a bit patronizing. YMMV, of course.

Alex talks about it herself here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wyk7Y-INEs#t=1m55s

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

The same way I don't see Rose/11 I have trouble with River/12, just doesn't feel right. It'd be interesting though to see how the character works without the "cougar" angle. It's hard to imagine Capaldi being put-upon as the previous incarnations.

Never really got a cougar vibe from 11/River. Even with the Mrs. Robinson joke.

For me it's the older woman combined with her being aggressive and sexual vs. the more innocent nature of the Doctor who thinks bunk beds are cool. I always felt like she was driving that relationship. Even the whole "sweetie" thing always seemed a bit patronizing. YMMV, of course.

Alex talks about it herself here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wyk7Y-INEs#t=1m55s

I didn't mind River in the Library episode when she was introduced. But the whole schtick as it developed during Matt Smith's run just got annoying. It turned me off the character completely.

 

[DWF]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

The same way I don't see Rose/11 I have trouble with River/12, just doesn't feel right. It'd be interesting though to see how the character works without the "cougar" angle. It's hard to imagine Capaldi being put-upon as the previous incarnations.

Never really got a cougar vibe from 11/River. Even with the Mrs. Robinson joke.

For me it's the older woman combined with her being aggressive and sexual vs. the more innocent nature of the Doctor who thinks bunk beds are cool. I always felt like she was driving that relationship. Even the whole "sweetie" thing always seemed a bit patronizing. YMMV, of course.

Alex talks about it herself here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wyk7Y-INEs#t=1m55s

Which is odd seeing that he's about 1000 years older than she is.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Casual viewers wouldn't have known about the Great Intelligence or the Zygons either. They still came back.

Sure, but it's easier to get away with that. We weren't expected to remember the Great Intelligence or the Zygons; we didn't need to know anything about them. They were basically re-introduced as brand new villains.

"Last of the Time Lords" is the Doctor's thing. Yes, we know Jenny is out there zipping around the universe, but at this point I think too much time has passed (and too many Doctors) for it to make much sense to bring her back, especially since the Doctor thinks she's dead.

I'm not saying you can't make it work, but I think it would be difficult.

*Shrug* They brought Sarah Jane back after 30 years and 6 Doctors. It could work with Jenny.

Not to mention SJA brought back the Brigadier and Jo Grant, despite the fact that that show's target audience would have no idea who they were. And they were even planning on bringing Ace back.

The "casual viewer" is more intelligent than most people realize.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Again, countless shows bring "back" their main characters' old friends, enemies, and lovers even when they've never been seen before. How many '70s and '80s TV episodes involved an old flame of the hero's coming back into his life, even though we'd never seen her before? So if the show brings back a previously established character and you're unfamiliar with their earlier appearances, then for you the experience is no different than something like the Master's introduction in "Terror of the Autons," Leila Kalomi's introduction in Star Trek's "This Side of Paradise," Jaime Sommers's introduction as Steve Austin's old flame in "The Bionic Woman" (the Six Million Dollar Man 2-parter, that is, not the subsequent spinoff of the same name), etc.

So if it's okay to "bring back" newly created nemeses/college friends/old flames that nobody in the audience has ever seen before, it should certainly be okay to bring back pre-existing characters that some of your audience hasn't seen before.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

It is often funny to see people demand the opposite whenever one of those is done.

"What the hell? Why didn't they just bring back a pre-established character? This show has no sense of continuity."

or

"Holy shit, that character hasn't been on the show since last season. Do they actually expect us to have every scene of every damn episode memorized? Should have just created a new character without any of this continuity baggage."

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

Again, countless shows bring "back" their main characters' old friends, enemies, and lovers even when they've never been seen before.

I guess for me there's a difference between bringing back an old friend/enemy (like Sarah Jane, The Master, etc) and bringing back a one-off character that was in a random episode that otherwise had no impact.

Again, I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying, at this point, I'd rather they focus on new things. The Doctor is like 1000 years older than he was when he first met Jenny, a girl he knew for less than a day. Bringing her back would just be kind of random.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Steven Moffat Talks About The "Raw", "New Direction" For The Serie

I guess for me there's a difference between bringing back an old friend/enemy (like Sarah Jane, The Master, etc) and bringing back a one-off character that was in a random episode that otherwise had no impact.

Again, my point is that many stories "bring back" characters who had never been seen before at all. Again, when the Master was first introduced in "Terror of the Autons" in 1971, he was already an old nemesis of the Doctor, even though he'd never appeared in the show before.

So how many times a character has appeared before -- or if they've ever appeared at all -- should have no bearing on whether an effective story can be told about their return. Ideally, the story should be written for the benefit of viewers who aren't familiar with the character anyway, so that they won't be confused or left out. As long as you explain any relevant backstory in the episode itself, what came before or didn't come before should be irrelevant.

Of course, the corollary of that is that you ideally don't bring a character back just for nostalgia's sake, but do so because there's a story worth telling about them, a story that would be just as meaningful even if they'd never been seen before. Like how Moffat handled the Great Intelligence. Aside from a couple of subtle in-joke nods about snowmen and the London Underground, and the Doctor muttering something about finding it familiar, there's no real indication in "The Snowmen" or "The Name of the Doctor" that the Intelligence is an old 1960s foe being brought back; it feels like a newly created villain, and its presence was driven by the story being told in the then-current season, not simply by reminiscing about a couple of Second Doctor tales. If it's meaningful to the present story, then past appearances or lack thereof make no difference.