Stephen King's The Stand

[Kail]

Just watched this mini series and I have a question or two. What good di sending out the spies do? The Judge died before he ever got to Flaggs camp, the girl slept with his head man but got caught and kills herself, and the handi-capped guy gathered some information, but never got to convey it. Yes, he did show up at the right time to save Stew, so I guess he had a valid story point to contribute, but the others all died in vain.

And speaking of dying in vain, what good reason, story wise, were the four town leaders sent out to Las Vegas? Stew gets hurt and stays behind, so much for him. The old man is murdered in his jail cell, no story contribution there. The other two are strung up and about to be killed when "the hand of God" grabs hold of a nuclear weapon and blows them all to bits.

I could see if their being there somehow lead to the destruction of Flagg, but they didn't. There were just there, dying in vain.

So am I missing something? Why were they sent out in the first place? What were they suppose to do? It just seemed a waste.

 

[Lt. Trull]

i dont know much but what I did gather is that god needed somebody to work thru. that is why he needed their presence in las vagas.

 

[Pavonis]

From the good guys' perspective, they needed to find out what Flagg was trying to do. Of course they had to send spies. The fact that little came of it is actually rather realistic. There were no professional spies available to send to Vegas (were there?), so the good guys sent the people they could.

As for the four sent out to Vegas, I think they served a very specific purpose. They brought about the end of Flagg's reign by providing a spectacle (their execution) for most, if not all, of Flagg's followers to gather for. I don't recall how large the bomb that Trash Can Man brought, but it may not have been large enough to wipe out all of Vegas. However, by gathering everyone at one location, the Hand of God was able to detonate the warhead in a large crowd, ensuring the destruction of Flagg and his followers.

That's what I guess.

 

[Vendikarr]

So the Devil (Flagg) planned to nuke Boulder and eliminate all the 'good' people. I guess God liked the plan, cuz he stole Flagg's nuke, and wiped out the 'evil' people.

So by looking at their methods, what's the difference between the two deities?

 

[sidious618]

It's a ridiculous ending. I remember reading the book and going WHAT THE FUCK?

And not in a good, LOST like, way.

 

[ToddPence]

Seems to me like the sensible thing to do would have been to stay out on the East Coast and stay out of the silly conflict between Flagg and Mother Abigail.

 

[General Kang]

Just watched this mini series and I have a question or two. What good di sending out the spies do? The Judge died before he ever got to Flaggs camp, the girl slept with his head man but got caught and kills herself, and the handi-capped guy gathered some information, but never got to convey it. Yes, he did show up at the right time to save Stew, so I guess he had a valid story point to contribute, but the others all died in vain.

So the characters in the book decide to send out spies, and the spies are unsuccessful in gathering useful information, and you wonder what sense it makes?

Did it occur to you that perhaps, when telling a story, a storyteller might relay how characters make a decision that does not help them in the long run?

I think that it is pretty clear that the committee made the decision and chose the spies and sent them out on their own, without direction from Mother Abigail (ie w/o orders from above) and nothing good came out of it - which makes sense from the story's perspective - they screwed up, and the Judge and most of the other spies died.

And speaking of dying in vain, what good reason, story wise, were the four town leaders sent out to Las Vegas? Stew gets hurt and stays behind, so much for him. The old man is murdered in his jail cell, no story contribution there. The other two are strung up and about to be killed when "the hand of God" grabs hold of a nuclear weapon and blows them all to bits.

I could see if their being there somehow lead to the destruction of Flagg, but they didn't. There were just there, dying in vain.

So am I missing something? Why were they sent out in the first place? What were they suppose to do? It just seemed a waste.

Pretty clear that King meant for the leaders to be a witness to the destruction - that they were martyrs. And while their being there wasn't necessary, suffice to say, if you spend too much time worrying about whether something God does is "necessary" you'll quickly spiral into intellectual oblivion (ie, why was it "necessary" for God to sacrifice his son make humans acceptable to himself?)

The one thing that does come from both the leader sacrifice AND the spies is that Tom, the only spy who survives, saves Stu, the only leader who goes over and survives (although he never made it there) - perfect example of the coincidence between fate and blind luck and God's will.

 

[A beaker full of death]

I love this miniseries. For two reasons only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCPRhcaw8Q

 

[Kail]

From the good guys' perspective, they needed to find out what Flagg was trying to do. Of course they had to send spies. The fact that little came of it is actually rather realistic. There were no professional spies available to send to Vegas (were there?), so the good guys sent the people they could.

As for the four sent out to Vegas, I think they served a very specific purpose. They brought about the end of Flagg's reign by providing a spectacle (their execution) for most, if not all, of Flagg's followers to gather for. I don't recall how large the bomb that Trash Can Man brought, but it may not have been large enough to wipe out all of Vegas. However, by gathering everyone at one location, the Hand of God was able to detonate the warhead in a large crowd, ensuring the destruction of Flagg and his followers.

That's what I guess.

This all sounds pretty resonable, thanks! BTW, I'd like to say I enjoyed this show very much. The first 3/4 better than the ending though. Just seemed like kind of a let down.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

This reminds me of something I always wanted to ask... maybe this is a stupid question and maybe this is adressed in the book, but why were only people from the United States coming to Boulder (?) and Las Vegas respectively? What about the rest of the world?

Did everybody outside the U.S. die of the virus? Or was the rest of the world unaffected by it? Or did every country in the world have its own apocalyptic "Stand"?

 

[Peak]

There's not much info about the rest of the world in the book. The thing I do remember is that the military gives a code word (I think it was "Rome Falls") that ensures that the rest of the word also get the virus.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So the Devil (Flagg) planned to nuke Boulder and eliminate all the 'good' people. I guess God liked the plan, cuz he stole Flagg's nuke, and wiped out the 'evil' people.

So by looking at their methods, what's the difference between the two deities?

Sometimes, even the forces of good must use harsh methods to stop the spread of evil. Just because Flagg would have used the bomb, and God caused it to detonate, doesn't mean anything.

 

[Lt. Trull]

So by looking at their methods, what's the difference between the two deities?

omnipotent and omniscience; they are qualities that everybody but god lacks... its the ability to see farther ahead then the other guy...

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Seems to me like the sensible thing to do would have been to stay out on the East Coast and stay out of the silly conflict between Flagg and Mother Abigail.

A story about people drawn to good or evil...they never had free will. They were all but brainwashed in their dreams.

 

[Sci]

This reminds me of something I always wanted to ask... maybe this is a stupid question and maybe this is adressed in the book, but why were only people from the United States coming to Boulder (?) and Las Vegas respectively? What about the rest of the world?

Did everybody outside the U.S. die of the virus? Or was the rest of the world unaffected by it? Or did every country in the world have its own apocalyptic "Stand"?

The Stand is a novel about the death and rebirth of America; as such, it focuses exclusively on American characters. The rest of the world isn't relevant to the story.

 

[Jayson]

I would also think it might be hard to travel oversea's to get to America after the collapse of society. Not only do you need a pilot or a crew that knows how to operate a boat you got to stock up on supplies and I asume Flagg proably had followers in other countires as well and that's not even counting the sicko's and imoral types that aren't affliated with Flagg and are operating on their own. In the book I remember how their was a group of people who were kidnapping women or something like that and we heard gun shots going off in NEw York and the characteras mention that their is still alot of bad people out their.

Jason

 

[Marc]

This reminds me of something I always wanted to ask... maybe this is a stupid question and maybe this is adressed in the book, but why were only people from the United States coming to Boulder (?) and Las Vegas respectively? What about the rest of the world?

Did everybody outside the U.S. die of the virus? Or was the rest of the world unaffected by it? Or did every country in the world have its own apocalyptic "Stand"?

The Stand is a novel about the death and rebirth of America; as such, it focuses exclusively on American characters. The rest of the world isn't relevant to the story.

Except the small bit where after fucking up with the superflu army bigwigs decide to release it in Russia. Can't have the russkies winning after the U.S scores an own goal.

 

[Sci]

This reminds me of something I always wanted to ask... maybe this is a stupid question and maybe this is adressed in the book, but why were only people from the United States coming to Boulder (?) and Las Vegas respectively? What about the rest of the world?

Did everybody outside the U.S. die of the virus? Or was the rest of the world unaffected by it? Or did every country in the world have its own apocalyptic "Stand"?

The Stand is a novel about the death and rebirth of America; as such, it focuses exclusively on American characters. The rest of the world isn't relevant to the story.

Except the small bit where after fucking up with the superflu army bigwigs decide to release it in Russia. Can't have the russkies winning after the U.S scores an own goal.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I mean, yes, obviously a novel about the death and rebirth of America is going to contain some small bits about what happens in the rest of the world -- say, the bit in Book One where the narrator mentions the "second wave" of deaths that resulted from the collapse of human society after the superflu and notes that such deaths were less common in relatively nonindustrialized countries like Peru than they were in heavily industrialized societies like America. And, yes, part of the American experience is the existence in power of men and women of a violent or chauvonistic bent, such as those Army generals. But, overall, the experience of other countries simply isn't relevant to the story, because it is first and foremost about the death and rebirth of America.

 

[JonathonWally]

I love this miniseries. For two reasons only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCPRhcaw8Q

Beaker, you've made my month, I just may set that as my homepage.

 

[blaXXer]

I love this miniseries. For two reasons only:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCPRhcaw8Q

Great cans!