STD: Only Marginally Better than The Final Frontier

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by CrazyMinh, Jun 18, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. CrazyMinh

    CrazyMinh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Hi!!! I'm Crazy Minh, and I'm new here. I'm also a 20-odd year Trek fan who despises the new incarnation of Star Trek. Let me get that out of the way. This is in NO WAY a troll post, or a spam post. It's meant to be a critical review of the series, done by a critic that CBS DIDN'T pay off to give the dumpster fire that is STD good reviews. Before I start, I'd like to add that for those who actually LIKE this franchise-killer of a show: you're welcome to your opinion, as am I. I'm not going to bellittle you for liking that masterpiece of terrible writing, abysmal research and god-awful potent- that would make me just as bad as the people who bullied me in High School for liking Star Trek, and the people who continue to do that till this day. BUT, if you feel offended, it's not my problem. You are entitled to feel however yu feel, and that is not my issue.

    Part One: Why STD does not justify it's own existence
    Now, many people may remember Star Trek: Enterprise, the previous prequel. Scratch that, everyone here should remember it, as up until now, it was the worst incarnation of Star Trek. However, you may feel about the decontamination scenes, the blatant Fanservice with T'pol, etc., the show justified it's own existence in the timeline, something prequels are meant to do if they want to be successful.

    Enterprise was set during a era which was a interesting point in the timeline. It followed the events of the excellent movie First Contact, and was a point in time that had been mentioned but never explored: the events following First Contact that lead to the creation of the Federation. However, Star Trek discovery is set during a war that is never actually mentioned in the show (despite the writers trying to attach it to a specific episode of TOS, that episode never actually mentions a war with the Klingons) and one which isn't really that interesting a event. Sure, thousands of people are dead. So are those who died in the Dominon war, almost a 100 years later. Sure, it was caused by one person. Ever heard of Hitler??? Yeah, he was one person who started a frakkin genocidal slaughter. But at no point are the events in the series anything beyond boring. Enterprise had a interesting period of time it did justice to. STD however bastardises the feel of the 23rd century, and doesn't even use the style that the people of the time built their starships along to. There are no big, glowing buttons. There are no funny 'plastic' fixtures. There are no pipes labeled GN-DN (standing for Goes Nowhere-Does Nothing). There are no uniforms of the period. The enterprise badge (which doesn't appear until after the completion of the original 5-year mission) is everywhere. Don't think that's canon??? Look at the original Star Trek: The Next Generation technical manual, which was actually written by people who had actually worked on proper Star Trek before. This brings me to my next point:

    Part Two: The cast and crew
    Now, while STD has excellent actors in it's cast...they're being forced to go along with cliched dialouge, terrible writing and just plain canon violation. This is mainly due to the fact that currently there are no members of the production, writing or showrunning team that have worked on classic star trek. They've either come with no experience at all...or have worked on the stupid Nutrek movies that represented the low-point in the franchise. The writers aren't even that good. Take, for example, Alex Kurtzman. He's worked on Star Trek 2009, Star Trek Into Darkness, other stuff, and The Mummy (2016). You know, the movie that completely stuffed up one of the best horror franchises ever??? The movie on which Kurtzman was the primary writer??? The man has claimed he's going along with Roddenberry's dream of the future. Which part, I might sarcastically say??? The grimdark, depressing and gritty future that Roddenberry 'apparently' created??? Yes, I do realise that this makes no sense, as Roddenberry created a future where starleet officers aren't xenophobic crybaby bitches, Klingons are honourable warriors who don't look like space orcs, starfleet isn't a horrifically messed-up orgnaisation with no character, and where people live in peace and harmony. Yes, things which STD really has, doesn't it???

    Part 3: The abysmal writing
    STD has shit writing. I say this as a writer myself. It. Is. Shit. The feel is wrong for Star Trek (Just watch enterprise and it feels more like Trek than STD), the characterisation is wrong (starfleet officers don't act like Michelle Burnham (that is to say whiny, xenophobic, stupid bitches with a Mary-Sue complex bigger than that of Wesley Crusher)), the depiction of the Klingons is just....stupid, the show violates canon left and right (The mutiny, the holographic communicators, the spore drive, the goddam holodeck and replicators, the frakkin war itelf, etc), the show makes the entire run of Voyager invalid (may I remind you about magical spore space dust drives that can traverse the entire universe in three second BULLSHAT technology)...I could go on forever, but I won't.

    What's worse is the writers accuse anyone who disses the show as being 'ignorant' or 'homophobic' or 'misogynist'...oh, right, that brings me to my next point...

    Part 4: The Diversity
    Star Trek has always been a diverse show. STD is no more diverse than any other series. You want a list??? Fine, I'l give you a list:
    - Uhura (first interacial kiss on television)
    - Chekov (Russian bridge officer during the cold war)
    - Sulu (asian bridge officer during a time of racism)
    - Geordi (black engineering officer)
    - Ben Sisko (first black lead character)
    - Jake Sisko
    - Chakotey (Native American Bridge Officer)
    - Janeway (first female lead on Star Trek)
    - Harry (asian bridge officer)
    - Tuvok (first black vulcan on-screen)
    - Hoshi (asian female comms officer)
    - Travis (black helmsman)

    Only one of these characters was killed off 'permanently' (Sisko, and that's ambiguous in whether he's alive in the Wormhole), and we actually Cared when he was killed. STD has the following characters (I won't list their nationalities, but I will list their fate)

    - Michelle Burnham (alive; briefly send to prison in a possibly accidental offensive stereotype of a black person)
    - Gergiou...or whatever (dead/mirror version alive)
    - Native American Security officer (killed off by space monster in the second episode she appeared in)
    - Gay couple (one killed after appearing for 15 minutes, mostly in flashbacks after he died, the other alive)
    - possible others...who no one cares about in the slightest (although we don't really care about the above characters in the first place)

    So, they claim diversity...but only two of the characters listed are actually still alive as their original versions. Seriously, that's diversity??? More like a lot of dead characters...

    Part 5: The design and production
    I'm running short on time here, so I'm going to write a list instead:
    - Those space orcs they call klingons
    - Spinning saucer sections/gaps in the saucer section
    - No warp core in engineering, but warp narcelles on the discovery
    - No correlation between TOS ships and STD ships
    - No viewscreens, & holograms before the 24th century
    - Bridges don't go on the bottom of saucer sections
    - Lens flares. Frakkin Lens Flares!!!
    - Klingon's don't put coffins on their ships. The dead don't matter to them. The bodies are just empty shells to them.
    - Too much spent on special effects
    - Dark bridges with no lighting
    - The bullshit uniforms and props
    - etc

    Comment and discuss:
     
  2. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    @King Daniel Beyond , I think this is your field of expertise :D
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    BillJ
    Too long; don't care.
     
  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    I disagree with nearly everything you said.
     
  5. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    You're missing out. They pay pretty good.

    Because of my praising Discovery, I now have enough money to put all of my unborn children through college.
     
  6. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I have to admit, this is the first time I've seen someone compare Burnham to Hitler.

    We've had TONS of canon debates here already and I don't think I'm up to another one so soon, but keep in mind that the Enterprise was launched in the 2240s while the Discovery is a relatively new ship in 2256, so I'm not too mad about different set design. I do miss the GN-DN pipes, that's a neat joke.

    Yea, I'm pretty sure that's not exactly canon.

    I'm sure I've already brought this up dozens of times, but at least one of the writers, Kirsten Beyer, is a huge Star Trek fan, she wrote like half a dozen Voyager novels, at least one of them was a New York Times Beststelling novel and she is actually on this forum, although she hasn't been that active anymore.

    They certainly are honorable folks in the TNG-era stuff but if I were to describe TOS klingons I'd go with "treacherous" any day.

    I think that's kind of the point. Picard etc. are already "finished" characters; Burnham still has a lot to learn until she completed her journey.

    I'm genuinly curious; what's a Mary-Sue complex? I mean, I know what a Mary Sue is, but is a Mary-Sue complex something where a character thinks they can do everything or maybe something different?

    Got addressd in the final episode; the record of her mutiny was deleted, hence why Spock found "no record of a mutiny" in Starfleet in TOS later on.

    Can be addressed as either newer tech that Enterprise doesn't have because of the "15 yers newer" thing or technology that got phased out before TOS. The author of the first (non-canon) DSC novel suggested that it was easier for foreign parties to spy on the holofeed so traditional view screen communication was used. The line from one DS9 episode can easily be read as O'Brien installing the new (version) of the holo-comm, like when I buy the new iPhone, that doesn't mean that it's the first iPhone ever.


    Will definitely be addressed further as the series goes on. Since you can jump uiverses with it I can easily imagine starfleet classifying it on the spot.

    The sim room as I like to call it can be seen as an extension of the holo targeting in Enterprise; furthermore the Enterprise herself had a sort of holodeck in TAS. Since that didn't display humanoids and only patches of land it could be reasoned that the DSC one is more advanced cause it's a newer ship.

    Why are these problematic?

    Is there the faint possiblity of you talking about a certain Michael Burnham?

    if you're talking about Landry; her actress is Indian, not Native American.

    Culber was killed after like ten episodes and appeared in hallucinations/spore stuff, not flashbacks.

    Yeah, I kinda have to agree with you there. The show could have been a lot more diverse; IMO.
    They probably have one lying around on the ship somewhere.

    Except for the ones we saw in Enterprise.

    T'Kuvma is probably a member of a different sect of Klingon religion.


    ETA: Oh my word, it's almost 2 in the night and I have no life :D
     
  7. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Complains about lack of diversity in Disco.

    Calls Micheal a "stupid bitch."

    Yeah. I got nothing.
     
  8. CrazyMinh

    CrazyMinh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Right, sorry about the viewscreens bit...wait??? Holograms??? On ENT??? Do you mean the technology from the future that Daniels had??? That doesn't count.
     
  9. Firebird

    Firebird Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    Location:
    On the Cinerama screen, in glorious Technicolor.
    Not a troll post, yet invokes Godwin's Law midway through the third paragraph. Fascinating.
     
  10. CaptainMurdock

    CaptainMurdock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2013
    Location:
    Ohio
    I like Final Frontier more.
     
  11. CrazyMinh

    CrazyMinh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    I'm not complaining about the lack of diversity. If I had it my way, I'd click my fingers and Q the series out of frakkin existence. It's terrible. Even Enterprise at it's WORST (A night in sickbay, Dead Stop, etc) was better
     
  12. CrazyMinh

    CrazyMinh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    WHat the hell is godwin's law???
     
  13. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    If you don't watch, it would be kind of like it doesn't exist.
     
  14. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2015
    I kinda half agree here. Definitely not everyone who doesn't like the show is bigoted (for example BillJ has been a strong vocal opponent of the show but I wouldn't think for a second that he's bigoted). However I'm always kinda cautious with the accusation that the writers accuse all critics of bigotry, I rarely see actual proof for that. Just to be clear; I'd disagree with the statement if it was made. Of course there are also bigoted people who don'tl ike the show for that reason, but that's a whole different story.

    Nope, not Daniels. In one of the first episodes the Enterprise NX-01 encounters a species that has holodecks sort of in the way DSC had. Later we see "Targeting Holo-emitters" used in the show, basically you got flying spheres and you shoot them. The DSC holodeck seems like a blend of these two, to me.

    From Wikipedia: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1"

    Also, sorry for the myriads of typos I'm making; I'm usually not this tired while writing posts. Good night everyone; please don't get this thread locked until I'm awake again :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  15. CrazyMinh

    CrazyMinh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Yes, the episode where tucker gets pregnant. Not really a highlight of trek. Also, how does mentioning hitler make me a troll??? I've been a fan for 20 years, and I know my stuff.

    Internet Troll:
    In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3]often for the troll's amusement.

    From Wikipedia the Free Encyclopaedia
     
  16. CrazyMinh

    CrazyMinh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    I'm not sowing discord, I'm not starting quarrels (well, quarrels within reasonable boundries), I may be upstetting some people (but do you feel upset???), my post (I admit) is slightly infamatory, it's not extraneous, it's not off-topic, it is designed to provoke a emotional response (disgust), it doesn't disrupt normal discussion, and I'm not doing it for my own amusement.
     
  17. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    So you're saying Burnham's done something like what Hitler did.... but you're not trolling?
     
    Syd Shanshala, Manticore and Firebird like this.
  18. CrazyMinh

    CrazyMinh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
  19. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    Well, then. If I believed what you believed, I would've stopped watching right then and there... and wouldn't have waited nine months to say something about it.
     
    Mad Jack Wolfe and BillJ like this.
  20. CrazyMinh

    CrazyMinh Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Hey, I've said stuff about it before...just not here. I didn't know this site existed unitl about a week ago.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.