STC Ep. 8: "Still Treads The Shadow" rating and discussion....

[Kemaiku]

On the one hand, it would have been amazing to have Shatner appear and go out on his own terms. But it would have been a stretch, even with the conditions of his return, to buy it being the same person visually/voice acting wise. Vic pulled off two distinct portrayels of the same character better than several A-listers I could mention.

The borrowing was overdone but like I said, it was from of the more forgettable episodes and portions of TNG's movie era. Arguably if STC can take several of those ideas, work them together and produce a better end product then maybe. They should have given Ti a better reason to exist and kept Doug's basic aesthetic if not direct work to keep the series internally consistent.

An emergent AI may have access to a lot of knowledge from the Defiant database, but would it form such a perfectly sapient mind within Jim's lifetime? I suppose having learned that it was possible, the major refitting in 2271 was to alter the fundemental infrastructure of the fleets work coming from Daystrom to prevent it happening (well, one of the reasons).

If need be, we could dismiss some of the visual changes to "reality distortions" rippling out from the singularity, a symptom of the interdimensional limbo the Defiant was pulled from. But that all depends on how they depict everything in later episodes.

 

[KennyB]

While sure, having Shatner would have been cool...........I doesn't do ANYTHING for free.

 

[Warped9]

My view is that IF any of the original cast were to guest star it would work better to have them play new characters rather than simply older versions of the roles they originally played.

 

[Firebird]

Bridge set answer:

Spoiler

Same bridge set. Different overheads, designed by Will Smith to match the other ship as seen in TOS--fortunately those displays are very different in style to those on the Enterprise, so they help a great deal. Alternate dedication plaque. But the biggest factor is the lighting.

Enough platforms were made to finish the bridge but consoles were never built for the last one-and-a-half starboard stations. These platforms, with railings, were put in place when needed for specific shots. This episode isn't the first time this was done. Also, (not necessarily in this episode, but...) when necessary, shots at another station (Environmental) are cheated via angles/editing to stand in for the never-built Weapons Sub-Systems station. Even though TOS had all their bridge pieces, even they often cheated in this way to save time.

Thanks for clarifying that! One more question:

Spoiler

Does that mean that the STC bridge finally has a viewscreen? The shots over Sulu's and Smith's shoulders looking towards it didn't look like a green screen composition this time around.

 

[Danlav05]

The other and more direct issue is of physical resemblance. It's easier to buy an "aged" Vic as an older version of a young Vic than Shatner as an older Vic. I thought about this while watching the episode and it works better the way they did it.

Also the older Vic doesn't seem so much a departure from the older Kirk seen in "The Deadly Years" whereas Shatner doesn't look much like he did as the "aged" Kirk in that episode.

Even I am now admitting that I don't buy Shatner as Kirk anymore from mockups/the Oscars sketch. He's 20 years older, in a different shape (not that I'm sizeist but it makes him look different) and I guess the way he lampooned himself doesn't help

 

[Zaminhon]

While sure, having Shatner would have been cool...........I doesn't do ANYTHING for free.

He also guards the IP very closely and particularly his own. A while back, a fan created a meme that included Shatner in the captain's chair to promote one of the kickstarters and it was posted on the STC facebook page. The next day, Shatner responded and demanded that the meme be removed and of course it was. I believe this was before the Ax suit. I don't blame him, he's fully justified in protecting his image, but it shows that he keeps an eagle-eye out for that kind of stuff.

 

[Danlav05]

My view is that IF any of the original cast were to guest star it would work better to have them play new characters rather than simply older versions of the roles they originally played.

I think those days are gone - Takei has refused requests to be Sulu again after World Enough and Time (mainly due to other projects like the Broadway show which he put a lot of time into, he did a monologue for the Federation: The First 150 Years book though) and right before the serial numbers were filed away Koenig and Nichols filmed a 'farewell' scene as Chekov and Uhura for Renegades.

There's Yorktown from the 80s though (set between STC and TMP) being finished up with new footage of George recorded around 1985 - in fact passers-by to the forest saw him and thought they were working on Star Trek IV!

 

[urbandefault]

I enjoyed the crap out of this episode. One of their best yet.

 

[YJAGG]

As always, I thank them for making these videos and over all I enjoyed it. The kid in me loves to know what happened next after an original TOS story,

That said the grown up in me found this to be derivative and TNG-easque .

I loved the "stock shot of Sulu and Checkov at the helm ( great touch)

Grant, please just use your normal speaking voice ...just try it please.

Spoiler

Clever touch giving old Kirk an oversized tunic to make him look frail, I liked Vic's Old Kirk voice so much more than his "normal Kirk".
Very clever mimicking the old age make up in the Deadly years.

The counselor's part once again could of been done my Bones or Spock, or just about anyone else, and I appreciate the actor, just not her character.

There were a few things that just did not sit right with me
Still confused about what the great secret was that Tiberius conditioned Kirk to forget ? and Very confused about why the guest star was so upset about not going into the void with a 90 somehting year old Kirk, who she just met while there was 30 something year old Kirk...I just don't get that part of the story.

The biggest contradiction to me was just as Kirk beams over, he says if the ship is in danger, get out, and yet this Kirk was pissed because he was left behind, I get it got space happy, but his first log entry was I can't belive they left me? again as a archtype Kirk can't go all loopy.

 

[Treadwell]

Thanks for clarifying that! One more question:

Never built a viewscreen. CG artist Marc Bell has been doing those shots since he came aboard. He's a whiz at that stuff, like the turbolift ceiling mentioned earlier.

 

[Reanok]

I voted Excellent I really enjoyed watching this new Episode a lot.

 

[Zaminhon]

They really nailed the the makeup and Vic's acting and the editing were fantastic. All the production elements came together on this one to make it one of the best.

Spoiler: Question

I do have a question about Ti's motivations and how "the Dark" (I take it, Dark Matter) was involved. Was TI waiting for the Dark Matter to be visible because of the Black Holes and to be used for some purpose? It apparently wanted the two event horizons to fuse for some reason, but what was the point?

 

[Danlav05]

Excellent. Best episode since "Come Not Between the Dragons" which I adored. It's hard to believe that we're near the end of the 5 year mission after nearly half a century, but I'm in awe at how they recreate the 60s feel.

I can't help but wonder if the Old Kirk part was written with the ambition to invite William Shatner back (not that any KiRkstarter would raise his demands), also there was a TOS writer, but to me Mignogna is the best Kirk since Shatner (remember at the beginning when I was tirelessly defending New Voyages against STC and Vic? How things change with time and more knowledge!) and he performed the dual role very very well.

 

[9gs]

Excellent. Best episode since "Come Not Between the Dragons" which I adored. It's hard to believe that we're near the end of the 5 year mission after nearly half a century, but I'm in awe at how they recreate the 60s feel.

I can't help but wonder if the Old Kirk part was written with the ambition to invite William Shatner back (not that any KiRkstarter would raise his demands), also there was a TOS writer, but to me Mignogna is the best Kirk since Shatner (remember at the beginning when I was tirelessly defending New Voyages against STC and Vic? How things change with time and more knowledge!) and he performed the dual role very very well.

We will probably never get that answer. This episode is an actors dream and why would you give up half of a part (and maybe the best half) if its your decision to make?

 

[rocketdave]

I see I'm far from the only one who wondered if Vic had at one time entertained hopes of casting a certain someone in the role of the older Kirk. Realistically, I'm certain the chances of something like that happening were infinitesimally small, guidelines or no, but had hell frozen over and he had somehow managed to entice Bill into being in a fan film, this episode probably would have done a better job holding my interest. However, then Still Treads the Shadow might have reminded me too much of the NV episode with George Takei, World Enough and Time, and this episode already reminded me of plenty of other stuff.

When I first saw Vic lying on that sickbay bed, I riffed, "It's Dave Bowman!" I didn't know how close to the truth I was about that 2001 connection, since this episode also had its own HAL. Of course, I couldn't help thinking of TNG's Second Chances with Thomas Riker as well, not to mention the series finale of Stargate SG-1 where a timey wimey thing traps the main characters for decades (for them) on a ship. Old Kirk's sacrifice at the end, having to stay on the ship because the autopilot is down, even brought to mind what happened with George Kirk in ST09. That one almost feels like it could have been a deliberate homage.

And here we have yet another old flame of Kirk's that's never been mentioned until now who just conveniently happens to be around (which, now that I think about it, is reminiscent of The Deadly Years). I know it's a common trope, but the fact that we'd never heard of this woman before somewhat mitigated the emotional impact of the story for me. I've never been especially bothered by unexplored aspects of Kirk's past suddenly coming to light, such as in WOK, but I guess I found it a little weird that this woman, who is a complete stranger to the audience, would have such a strong bond with Kirk that she'd be willing to throw away her life for him.

STC is still, imho, the best live action fan film series (not that I've watched a ton). This was a perfectly decent episode and I liked it better than the last one, but I just didn't think it was the most engaging. If this had been a TOS episode, it would have been one of the above average ones, but the ideas probably would have felt more fresh back then, too.

 

[Firebird]

If this had been a TOS episode, it would have been one of the above average ones, but the ideas probably would have felt more fresh back then, too.

I think that's exactly why I'm not being too harsh on the elements that we've seen in TNG and elsewhere. I'm trying to keep myself in the mindset of this episode originally airing back in 1970 or 71, where it would've seemed a bit more of a new concept.

 

[Warped9]

I think that's exactly why I'm not being too harsh on the elements that we've seen in TNG and elsewhere. I'm trying to keep myself in the mindset of this episode originally airing back in 1970 or 71, where it would've seemed a bit more of a new concept.

The problem with that us that it's so apparent they were borrowing ideas which came later.

 

[Zaminhon]

2001 would have been contemporary to this in 1970, but Kirk outsmarting self-aware AI's is old hat in TOS. If anything, it kind of reminded me of Time Squared, but I thought much better, I never cared for Stewart's acting in that one. I guess Picard being incoherent through most of it didn't help much.

 

[Warped9]

"Time Squared," "Second Chances," "The Deadly Years," and TFF were immediately revognizable sources of "inspiration" for this story. I suspect there were others.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Just watched it for the first time. WOW! I think it was amazing! One of the best STC has done and certainly one of my favorites. Certainly Vic Mignogna's best performance so far! For 54 minutes I was completely hooked and entertained, despite the similarities in themes with other stories.
My only complaint? I can't believe STC will end with episode 11! Please say it ain't so!