STC Ep. 6: "Come Not Between The Dragons" grading and discussion....(possible spoilers)

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Oh my...

Do not mess with McKennah

I think that this episode was Michele Specht’s strongest performance yet.

Question: Do you think that TOS would have gotten away with a scene like this back in the 60’s?

Bones getting decked is becoming a running gag in STC.

 

[STEPhon IT]

It is what it is; the plot is straight forward, but I fail to figure out what the episode is about? I'm guessing this was a love letter for Vic's very loyal, convention fans; it had a Nippon-Power Rangers feel to it. I don't think the Shakespeare inspired title was appropriate, although remnants of King Lear was sort of sprinkled through and heavy-handed by the end of it, but once again the production design was spot on, even better than the classic Star Trek.

In the beginning I was suspecting it would be focus on Chekov, and then I thought there would be a rivalry between the ladies for the Captain's attention and some influence the Japananime alien maybe harnessing but I was completely wrong. It's not King Lear or shares it's subtleties, like Star Trek's great venture with "The Conscience of the King" where the episode did an impressive job in adopting the themes from "Hamlet" while making a tale about an actor.

I haven't rated these things in the past, and I'm not going to do it now. The production work is top notch.

 

[JE Smith]

As I said before, I enjoyed it, but it felt very slight, with a thin plot that needed more complications or some kind of development. The alien shows up, is chased by its dad, and gives itself up. Kirk monologues, and it's over. What little drama there was felt artificial and tacked-on, especially the "Day of the Dove" aspect of everyone being made to feel hostile. It also felt very similar to "Lolani," a much better-developed script. This should either have been 20 minutes longer (with more incident and action developed), or 20 minutes shorter. It felt like the kind of mash-up fan fiction a teenager would craft, dressed up in STC's exemplary production values. Annnd, yay, we're shipbound again.

But -- at least it wasn't a story built directly on the scaffolding of a past TOS episode, as so many other STC shows have been. It was very well-made (even though the alien screamed "man in suit," it still worked for me, and was a cool design) on every other level beyond the script. I'd watch it again, which is something I can't say for "The White Iris." 3.5/5

 

[Philip Guyott]

It is what it is; the plot is straight forward, but I fail to figure out what the episode is about?

What! Seriously! Did you not watch the episode until the end?

"Every time you lash out in anger at your son, you become less the father he loves and more the monster he fears. Please, please find a way to heal yourself, because my father never did." - Ensign Eliza Taylor

Link

This episode was all about fatherhood and how fathers should relate to their children. As someone who has father issues this episode spoke to me in a very personal way. This is what Star Trek does at its very best, it addresses moral and social issues facing society today.

STC has returned us to what Star Trek should be - morality plays that are enjoyable to watch.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Star Trek's episodes centered on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, while this episode was all over the place. I didn't get any father issues with the characters I care about, THE MAIN CHARACTERS, but I understood the PLOT, as I've mentioned.

 

[Zaminhon]

I like that the supporting cast has a lot of fun things to do in this episode.The fight scenes were hilarious which made this a very fun episode. It's done even better than the original because of not using stunt actors. It was fun watching the women of STC kick ass. I think Smith should head up security, she can really pack a punch and so can (One punch) McKennah and (Kick-boxer) Uhura . I was also impressed with Wyatt Lenhart as Checkov, he's really pulling off that role. Grant would be so much better if he stopped with the voice impersonation and just use his own. I really enjoyed seeing Gigi outside of her Chiana character, she did an excellent job, here.

The creature design was fantastic. I think they would have needed something like a Toho / Desilu collaboration to pull this off in the 60's. Another great job with the scoring, the new musical cues blend in perfectly with the original themes. I wonder if the moving star field on the main viewer when the ship is supposed to be stationary is intentional and trying to emulate the inconsistency of the original show in that regard?

The main theme of the show felt a little contemporary since these issues were usually hidden away in a skeleton closet in the 60's, but I have no problem with them dealing with contemporary issues. Besides, some of the typical Cold War themes of the original wouldn't go over very well today with the younger viewers, It was an impressive production and in my top 3 of STC episodes. Now, they need to go and revisit Vulcan, I'd love to see their take on it.

 

[Astra]

There is a nice video with Greg on the STC Facebook page about the creating of the monster, it was livestreamed from Space City Comic Con.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Even if the ship is stationary, the vessel is still sustaining itself from the vacuum of space; so a moving star field feels fine to me.

 

[The Transformed Man]

I'm actually kind of surprised people are missing the theme of this episode... it's not about father/son relationships per se, it's clearly about parental physical abuse, and it was handled in a very 50's/60's TV manner. This was a fairly common theme in a lot of more family friendly entertainment from the era... it would never be directly addressed as such, and frequently writers danced around the subject and used more thematic elements (in this case the father's rage and physical lashing out manifested in the crew) to talk about the subject.

Quite a few TV westerns tackled the subject (I specifically remember an episode of Rifleman that dealt with the issue), and it was nice to see the STC crew handle the story in a similar fashion.

 

[Admiral2]

I had to give this episode an "Excellent." I just had to. Not only is the overall episode great, but the aliens are the coolest thing I've seen in trek since the Excalbians.

And I'm a little embarrassed that it took me half the episode before I recognized Gigi Edgley...

Awesome job ST:C crew!

 

[Maurice]

Nice production values. I loved the alien suit.

Am I the only one who finds some of the dialog mumbly? I had to rewind several times because I couldn't make out what some characters were saying when they spoke low.

My ongoing complaint with fanfilm scripts applies here: again, the characters don't drive the story.

Spoiler: story specific stuff

The Captain is purely reactive, and at the climax it's the alien itself that saves the day of its own volition. Kirk's big speech to Spock doesn't feel set up earlier, and the big confessional guest-star message at the end likewise comes out of left field. The entire denouement is too long.

There are also "filler" moments which do nothing to advance the story. McKennah's brawl with Smith is totally unnecessary. You could cut it and it changes the story not one bit.

"Shields down to *yawn*..." Just. Stop.

So, again, nice looking show, but the script quality falls short of the production values.

 

[Philip Guyott]

Star Trek's episodes centered on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, while this episode was all over the place. I didn't get any father issues with the characters I care about, THE MAIN CHARACTERS, but I understood the PLOT, as I've mentioned.

Well at least I care about Eliza!
Gigi Edgley’s emotional performance really made me care about the character.
After all the best Star Trek is character driven!

I get what you are saying, but I don’t think that they could have addressed this particular theme as effectively if it had been a Kirk, Spock and McCoy story. I got the impression from ST:2009 that prime universe Kirk had a good relationship with his father. As prime universe Spock said to JJ verse Kirk:

...you often spoke of him as being your inspiration for joining Starfleet. He proudly lived to see you become captain of the Enterprise.

Although McCoy did kill his father, he did so out of love! David McCoy was stricken with an incurable and painful disease in which he had pleaded with his son to release him from. The fact that a cure was discovered soon after, caused him many years of regret. I get the impression that they had fairly a close relationship.

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That leaves us with Spock. He most certainly had father issues. In a deleted scene form Star Trek V, Spock says that Sybok has failed as he had resolved those issues long ago.

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I suppose this episode of STC could have been an opportunity to see how Spock had dealt with his father issues. But the deleted scene is not canon, nor particularly well known. In canon Kirk and McCoy did not learn of Spock's pain until Star Trek V, therefore addressing these issues here would have affected continuity.

In an episode about fatherhood the sensible option here was to bring in a fourth character to address these issues.

 

[STEPhon IT]

My ongoing complaint with fanfilm scripts applies here: again, the characters don't drive the story.

"Shields down to *yawn*..." Just. Stop.

So, again, nice looking show, but the script quality falls short of the production values.

Seems like it's a very, very difficult element to grasp. It's even harder for the ones who --out right-- loved these episodes.

 

[Maurice]

As a paid screenwriter I know how difficult the form is. I actually created a spreadsheet to track where my story beats should land based on the script length, and to make sure I've set up all the thematic stuff in the first act.

The lengthy denouement is a common fanfilm problem, and it's one "The Tressaurian Intersection" got dangerously close to repeating until I took the pruning shears to the end. In some ways the ending to that is still longer than I'd like but I got it as short as I could while still trying to land all the closing dramatic beats.

 

[urbandefault]

Watched it, liked it. Not outstanding, but it didn't suck. I enjoyed seeing Gigi in a Starfleet uniform, and it was nice to see the secondary characters given something fun to do.

I was surprised to see that Damian Beurer played the alien. He's done a lot of fan stuff, including the stunt fight in Bat In the Sun's Batman vs Darth Vader.

Thumbs up.

 

[Admiral2]

Seems like it's a very, very difficult element to grasp. It's even harder for the ones who --out right-- loved these episodes.

I out right loved this episode, and I have no problem with the script, or with the story not being driven by the big three. It was character driven. The characters driving it were Eliza and the aliens. I'm fine with that. I don't need every single episode of trek to be about Kirk, Spock or McCoy's angst.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I'm fine with it too, is the reason why I won't give it a grade. And simply enjoy the work done by the talented production team. These things are well crafted; I clearly know where the money and interest went into this episode.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

There is a nice video with Greg on the STC Facebook page about the creating of the monster, it was livestreamed from Space City Comic Con.

I can't see that video. Perhaps they've taken it down.

 

[Admiral2]

I'm fine with it too, is the reason why I won't give it a grade. And simply enjoy the work done by the talented production team. These things are well crafted; I clearly know where the money and interest went into this episode.

Right. Sorry, I was mostly responding to the post you were responding to...

 

[Philip Guyott]

There are also "filler" moments which do nothing to advance the story. McKennah's brawl with Smith is totally unnecessary. You could cut it and it changes the story not one bit.

Well, they transported the alien to engineering because it was better shielded. The doors to engineering were then sealed. The next step would have been for McKennah and the transporter chief to have locked out transporter controls. To prevent this, Smith had to regain control. As the whole sub-plot was how to prevent Kirk from harming the alien this scene did serve a purpose.

"Shields down to *yawn*..." Just. Stop.

A bit harsh and not particularly constructive. I am a big fan of Starship Exeter, but it seems that you have a hard time enjoying other fan productions, in particular, the good ones. That being said I acknowledge that as a screenwriter you do analyse things on a different level to myself. But as a fan, I know what I like, and I love this.

As to the denouement I agree it was a bit long by TOS standards, but it was beautiful in both its writing and its execution. I never cry at stuff on TV (I’m British!), and if I did I would never admit it to anyone I know personally, but the denouements of ‘Pilgrim of Eternity’, ‘Lolani’ and now ‘Come Not Between the Dragons’ have all been able to provoke a strong emotive response in me. No other fan production has even come close.