You know, using the old excuse that it's "just a TV show," when one actively posts on a Star Trek internet bulletin board, is kind of a self-defeating attitude, don't you think?
And feel free to disagree with my facts.
State of the Stargazer
- Thread starter MatthiasRussell
- Start date
You know, using the old excuse that it's "just a TV show," when one actively posts on a Star Trek internet bulletin board, is kind of a self-defeating attitude, don't you think?
And feel free to disagree with my facts.
Come on, I post here because it's fun. The only reason I said that it was "just a TV show" was because I felt a certain hostility with your first post. But please if there was no hostility intended, my bad. Let's just have fun eh?
No problem dude, that's cool. And if I did unintentionally sound hostile in my post, I apologize.
All good mate
Have you seen this pictorial before?
http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/01/11/stargazer-kitbash-pictorial/
Haven't actually read it in a while but there are some really great bits of info on there, including the best pics of the NCC-7100 out there. They were very helpful for my own kitbashing project.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/Scotty701/Stargazer Project wip/IMG_3491.jpg
The pages over at MA are also very cool.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/NCC-7100
...Which would work fine if Picard weren't
1) a generally detail-minded guy
2) a history specialist
3) really in love with his old ship
4) in possession of domestic gadgetry that would effortlessly make him a 100% accurate Stargazer model, complete with the correct registry and 578 accurate if two-millimeter-high minifigures...
Really, I see no particular reason to go with Sternbach's recommendation here. Why deliberately erase a potentially interesting starship from the Trek universe?
Timo Saloniemi
Because he worked on the show and you didn't, so I'm more apt to take his recommendations over yours
Seriously though, there's absolutely no reason why we need to come up with some wierd justification that the model isn't supposed to represent the Stargazer simply because of a reuse of ERTL decals, when pretty much all signs point to it being the Stargazer.
Picard's first command was the Stargazer. The Stargazer was a Constellation class starship. That was his only command before the Enterprise-D (barring the nonsense from "Legacy"). The Constellation class seems to be very rare in the 24th century, so the idea of Picard commanding two vessels of that same class is extremely remote. Picard also never mentions any other command other than the Stargazer. The desk model is also obviously not just "random set dressing," because random set dressing would be a regular Connie or Excelsior ERTL/AMT model that would have been relatively easy to assemble as opposed to an intricate kitbash.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Oh for crying out loud. It's common sense.
You might have a leg to stand on dude if this conversation were happening before "The Battle" aired, but as it is "The Battle" aired 24 years ago. All on screen evidence would suggest that it's the Stargazer.
In other words, its easier to assume it is the Stargazer than to logic out why it isn't.
That, and as has been pointed out, it was Rick Sternbach who designed the model and as he was involved with the production of the show during its entire run, I'd say he's in a *much* more authoritative position to speculate/declare about what's what than any of us.
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(Why should "authority" matter on an issue where we have pseudo-facts from the Trek pseudo-universe to go by, too?)
Picard's ship was littered with artwork unrelated to his career. Picard's personal cabin had artwork unrelated to his career. Which is only realistic, because he would have neither the time nor the incentive to go decorating a floating city in space to his personal tastes.
I fully accept the idea of the Constellation class model as a generic piece of decoration, as many here have suggested. It's something from Starfleet Decorating Division, Tabletop Battalion, Generic Molds Company, Yellow Platoon. And it (instead of, say, a model of an Excelsior) is in Picard's room because it reminds him of his old starship. But in-universe, somebody slapped "NCC-7100" on the hull, and that is the interesting little detail that I think we shouldn't casually ignore. The model isn't decorated with the regalia of the Stargazer, but it isn't left undecorated, either, and that's worth a little bit of extra speculation.
Timo Saloniemi
Picard's ship was littered with artwork unrelated to his career. Picard's personal cabin had artwork unrelated to his career. Which is only realistic, because he would have neither the time nor the incentive to go decorating a floating city in space to his personal tastes.
I fully accept the idea of the Constellation class model as a generic piece of decoration, as many here have suggested. It's something from Starfleet Decorating Division, Tabletop Battalion, Generic Molds Company, Yellow Platoon. And it (instead of, say, a model of an Excelsior) is in Picard's room because it reminds him of his old starship. But in-universe, somebody slapped "NCC-7100" on the hull, and that is the interesting little detail that I think we shouldn't casually ignore. The model isn't decorated with the regalia of the Stargazer, but it isn't left undecorated, either, and that's worth a little bit of extra speculation.
Timo Saloniemi
Because real facts outweigh pseudo-facts?
And how is that even "pseudo-evidence" that the desk model wasn't supposed to represent the Stargazer? Starfleet has numerous starship classes. Picard could have had a model of practically any starship if he wanted to. The fact that it's a Constellation class, along with the fact that he commanded one such vessel, leads any logical-thinking person to conclude that it's meant to be the Stargazer. The fact that he also had some non-career-related items has nothing to do with that.
I think only one person actually suggested that, and they weren't exactly on-board with the idea either, IIRC.
Timo, you're more than welcome to jump through hulu-hoops of illogic if that's what suits you and makes you feel good to be a Trekkie
All I'm saying is that the weight of "real" evidence is against your theories.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
No. Casually ignoring it is precisely what we should be doing.
This is where I disagree. Not every last little inconsequential detail needs to be mulled over, determined, established and proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Certainly not in this case.
I think it may have been me who said that it was a random set dressing that 'looked cool'.
I should clarify that I meant that it was probably made as a random set dressing when the first episode was filmed before the Stargazers back story was fleshed out later in the first season.
To me it's not clear whether it was intended to be Picards previous command when Encounter at Farpoint was filmed, at the time I think it was only a model.
My in-universe explanation is that his model represents some kind of proto-Constellation class that was somehow important to picard, and perhaps at the same time reminded him of his old ship. I dunno, maybe he just had an liking for this class of ship...
I should clarify that I meant that it was probably made as a random set dressing when the first episode was filmed before the Stargazers back story was fleshed out later in the first season.
To me it's not clear whether it was intended to be Picards previous command when Encounter at Farpoint was filmed, at the time I think it was only a model.
My in-universe explanation is that his model represents some kind of proto-Constellation class that was somehow important to picard, and perhaps at the same time reminded him of his old ship. I dunno, maybe he just had an liking for this class of ship...
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
The Stargazer backstory was already established in Picard's bio in the TNG writer's bible; the whole reason the yellow model is in the ready room is because Rick Sternbach thought there should be some memento from Picard's previous command in there, so he started working on it in tandem with the production designers on 'Farpoint.'
But there are no other real facts besides the ship being registered "NCC-7100". Beyond that, we only have the model creator's personal opinion, and a couple of other opinions.
Brent Spiner had great ideas about where Data came from. Those weren't either facts or pseudo-facts, just opinions, and Data ultimately came from somewhere else altogether. This is a comparable situation.
It's a starship registry number. The #1 most popular thing to be mulled over on this Trek forum or others!
Timo Saloniemi
And I will repeat myself: Sternbach said it was supposed to represent the Stargazer. That wasn't his personal opinion, it was a fact. As Doubleohfive also said, the model was made because of the Stargazer reference in the show bible.
Spiner was just an actor. He never had any creative control about his character's backstory; the producers of the show did. There's a huge difference between an actor's opinion and what the producers intended. Or are you saying that the desk model thought it was something else other than what the producers stated?
Meh. I'm all about registry numbers, and even I'm fine with ignoring this as the inconsequential thing it is. It was simply a rearranging of the ERTL/AMT decals before the real registry of the Stargazer was decided upon. Nothing more, nothing less. If you're going to be that pedantic about it, then you must also feel that Starfleet just randomly decided to change the Hood's registry from 2541 to 42296, the Yamato's registry from 1305-E to 71807, or that SF truly has a vessel named the "Raging Queen"...
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Spiner was just an actor. He never had any creative control about his character's backstory; the producers of the show did. There's a huge difference between an actor's opinion and what the producers intended. Or are you saying that the desk model thought it was something else other than what the producers stated?
But Sternbach had no creative control either. He might have had all sorts of opinions about the desktop model, but none of those became part of the Star Trek pseudo-reality, just like Spiner's cool ideas were ignored.
Of course, other Sternbach and Spiner ideas were adopted. As no doubt were those of some director's girlfriend. But all that is unrelated to the desktop model's pseudo-nature.
Timo Saloniemi
Huh? He built the model. Obviously he had enough creative control to do that. And I'm sure he would have labeled it "Stargazer" had the model kit labels contained a's, g's, and z's.
Look, if you want to think that desk model is some other ship besides the Stargazer, fine.
But it's not.
