Started my TNG journey today: Reimagined childhood

[Terran_Empire]

After going through TOS from start to finish and films I-VI...I feel like I can make the claim to being thoroughly "trekked" but as I watch some interviews and behind the scenes moments with cast and crew and how they recall "growing up" with TOS...I had to think to myself and admit that I cannot relate to that, at least not directly.

I know Kirk, Spock and Bones through the eyes of an adult, and only so. As much as I loved and love the original show and the films...it doesn't spark in me that pleasing feeling known as nostalgia, but...TNG does. TNG, DS9, even VOY...that was my generation's TOS. Sure I didn't watch all of the episodes back then and the ones I did watch were all out of order but...I remember the formula and feeling of those shows even now that all the plots and stories have long since evaporated away from my mind.

I watched Encounter at Farpoint today, remastered and for the very first time...and I was pleasantly surprised. Surprised only that the show is just as good, maybe even a bit better, than how I remember it as a youth. I was afraid that like with so many other things, it wouldn't live up to that imaginary pedestal I had left it on in my head...that it would somehow disappoint me and in doing so ruin my fond memories of it. Thankfully those fears proved to be unfounded. That said, I see it now for everything that it is, in 20/20 if you will, whereas as a child you only see so much...only appreciate so much.

A few thoughts on the pilot itself....Q, a character I did not recall very well from my days of viewing TNG irregularly...is an ingenious antagonist or even villain, if that is what he or "it" is. John de Lancie deserved, if the nature of his character permitted it, a regular cast spot. He is just as good at Stewart and Frakes in some of these scene...a total small screen artist.

Also the "court" sequence in Encounter was....brilliant. At times the pilot jerked and prodded forward with a degree of clumsiness but this whole scene "made" the episode and on another level the entire series. Terrific fun.

That's my two cents.

 

[RunawayStarShip]

Honestly, I had a different reaction when I rewatched "Encounter at Farpoint" a year ago, not having seen it in its entirety for years. There's lots of good in EaF (which was what I remembered), but it's hampered by weird editing choices and some awkward scenes, especially in Part 2.

 

[Praxius]

When I was younger I always thought of Q as a bad guy throughout the series (yet with a lot of witty comical moments)

Then as I re-watched the series over the years a few times over, I started to see Q as not a bad guy, but actually a reluctant Good Guy who was interested in Humans, Picard especially, and wanted to help him along by using some very tough/harsh lessons in the process to make sure everything stuck.

I say reluctant good guy because he never wanted to appear to take the crew's side, kept his distance and mocked the crew so they didn't start to like him.... he had a reputation to uphold.

At the first of the series he was a bad guy, like Encounter at Farpoint and the episode where he tried to turn Riker into a Q and thus, show how weak humans were when it came to power and corruption.

Then he seemed to change his view a bit after that, but kept up the act of the villain so he didn't look like he was wrong about humans at the start..... this becomes apparent in All Good Things at the very end..... and at that point, even Picard seems to see Q's intentions for the first time and actually kind of starts to like Q.

After a few watch-throughs I ended up liking Q more and more.

It's interesting the things you see and catch over time as you grow.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

When I was younger I always thought of Q as a bad guy throughout the series (yet with a lot of witty comical moments)

Then as I re-watched the series over the years a few times over, I started to see Q as not a bad guy, but actually a reluctant Good Guy who was interested in Humans, Picard especially, and wanted to help him along by using some very tough/harsh lessons in the process to make sure everything stuck.

I say reluctant good guy because he never wanted to appear to take the crew's side, kept his distance and mocked the crew so they didn't start to like him.... he had a reputation to uphold.

At the first of the series he was a bad guy, like Encounter at Farpoint and the episode where he tried to turn Riker into a Q and thus, show how weak humans were when it came to power and corruption.

Then he seemed to change his view a bit after that, but kept up the act of the villain so he didn't look like he was wrong about humans at the start..... this becomes apparent in All Good Things at the very end..... and at that point, even Picard seems to see Q's intentions for the first time and actually kind of starts to like Q.

After a few watch-throughs I ended up liking Q more and more.

It's interesting the things you see and catch over time as you grow.

And then the movies happened, where the 'speech-i-fied' Picard turned into action Picard and also prone to shooting first and asking questions later. (It would have been interesting to see Q's reaction of the changed Picard).

TNG was part of my childhood as well even though I grew up on reruns of TOS in the late 70s/early 80s. Alas, the show would lose me after the 2nd season. I would return every now and then to catch episodes here and there. For example, episodes with Tasha Yar, Ensign Ro....but I never felt the 'adventure' aspect as I did with the best episodes of TOS.

 

[wulfio]

I don't think Q was a bad guy. He was as impartial as a researcher studying an ant colony.

 

[Terran_Empire]

I don't think Q was a bad guy. He was as impartial as a researcher studying an ant colony.

Of course. What I meant was that he was an antagonist towards the Enterprise and crew, at least in this episode. Regardless of what his intentions might be it's pretty clear that Picard and the crew view him as something similar to a villain by the end of EaF.

Again i'm watching TNG from the start, largely ignorant of how things develop throughout the series.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Q's more a prankster than a hero or a villain. But the sum result of his influence on humanity is undeniably positive.

 

[Praxius]

And then the movies happened, where the 'speech-i-fied' Picard turned into action Picard and also prone to shooting first and asking questions later. (It would have been interesting to see Q's reaction of the changed Picard)......

I wouldn't exactly say that and I never got how people started to think Picard suddenly changed into an action hero in the movies.

Something I posted in another forum about Picard:

This is a character who used to be just like Kirk when he was younger, to the point of getting into a bar fight with some Nausicaans, put up a good fight while being out numbered but getting a knife in the heart in the end.

This is the same character who was captured by the Borg, turned into a Borg, used as a puppet by them and used his knowledge to wipe out countless people, then with the help of his crew, escaped the Borg, destroyed the Cube and later went on to fight them off the Enterprise E, shooting them up with a Tommy Gun, blasting them off the deflector dish with Worf, eventually killing the Borg Queen with Data while swinging through skin corroding gases.

The same character who helped Worf get back his honor, who fought Klingon assassins from the house of Duras.

The same character who single-handedly thwarted terrorists on his ship who wanted to make a WMD from the warp core resources.... Then fk'n killed them all like a boss.

The same character who took on a clone of himself who was of the worst traits, who also had a superior ship, superior technology and superior weaponry.... And eventually.... Yup... Killed him like a boss by ramming his ship into the other, boarding the other ship and then getting into hand to hand combat with his younger clone and skewering his azz with a fk'n pipe.

The same character who was captured by Cardassians and tortured for an extended period of time in order to break him and prove how weak humans were compared to Cardassians.

THERE WERE FOUR LIGHTS B*TCH!!!

The same character who had to save his ship from de-evolving and fight off a gigantic acid spitting mutant Worf while also turning into a pygmy marmoset.

The same guy who invented the Picard Maneuver and saved his crew from a surprise attack.

The same character who took over tactical during an out-numbered battle against Klingons while trying to defend the Enterprise C until it got back to its timeline. He probably knew his ship was going to be destroyed, and yet held his ground without blinking and kept on fighting with everything the ship had left.

The same character who has had so many Mind-F*cks, PTSD incidents and saved countless lives over the years at the expense of his physical body and mind, that any other normal person would have been tossed into an institution long ago.

How many other people do you know who would laugh while getting a blade shoved in their chest?

Yes, Picard is a gentleman and uses his logic and reason to diffuse a situation.... But you do not want to fuk with him.

^This was relating to a thread in another forum asking who was the ultimate Captain between Kirk and Picard (An age-old debate in itself)

What brought me to the above post was when another member went on about how Picard seemed more passive than Kirk and relied more on his brains than his physical abilities.

What I saw in the movies wasn't much different than what I saw throughout the series. In Nemesis and First Contact, Picard swayed towards the Action side of his personality, while Generations and Insurrection mostly went the other way.

He had many moments going both ways though his time in Star Trek.

I personally enjoyed all the TNG movies.... more so than the original series movies. (Granted I really liked Undiscovered Country and The Final Frontier)

--------

My apologies for possibly side-lining the thread topic, but then again, I guess I did cover some highlights and evolution of Picard in the series. Much of this I personally didn't pick up on and missed the connections until after the 2nd or 3rd time watching the series though beginning to end like Terran_Empire is now doing.

Through my first watch through of TNG, I thought Picard was a bit on the dull side and didn't take many chances, but then through the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th time through, I started to put it all together and see how dynamic Picard really was.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

And then the movies happened, where the 'speech-i-fied' Picard turned into action Picard and also prone to shooting first and asking questions later. (It would have been interesting to see Q's reaction of the changed Picard)......

I wouldn't exactly say that and I never got how people started to think Picard suddenly changed into an action hero in the movies.

Something I posted in another forum about Picard:

This is a character who used to be just like Kirk when he was younger, to the point of getting into a bar fight with some Nausicaans, put up a good fight while being out numbered but getting a knife in the heart in the end.

This is the same character who was captured by the Borg, turned into a Borg, used as a puppet by them and used his knowledge to wipe out countless people, then with the help of his crew, escaped the Borg, destroyed the Cube and later went on to fight them off the Enterprise E, shooting them up with a Tommy Gun, blasting them off the deflector dish with Worf, eventually killing the Borg Queen with Data while swinging through skin corroding gases.

The same character who helped Worf get back his honor, who fought Klingon assassins from the house of Duras.

The same character who single-handedly thwarted terrorists on his ship who wanted to make a WMD from the warp core resources.... Then fk'n killed them all like a boss.

The same character who took on a clone of himself who was of the worst traits, who also had a superior ship, superior technology and superior weaponry.... And eventually.... Yup... Killed him like a boss by ramming his ship into the other, boarding the other ship and then getting into hand to hand combat with his younger clone and skewering his azz with a fk'n pipe.

The same character who was captured by Cardassians and tortured for an extended period of time in order to break him and prove how weak humans were compared to Cardassians.

THERE WERE FOUR LIGHTS B*TCH!!!

The same character who had to save his ship from de-evolving and fight off a gigantic acid spitting mutant Worf while also turning into a pygmy marmoset.

The same guy who invented the Picard Maneuver and saved his crew from a surprise attack.

The same character who took over tactical during an out-numbered battle against Klingons while trying to defend the Enterprise C until it got back to its timeline. He probably knew his ship was going to be destroyed, and yet held his ground without blinking and kept on fighting with everything the ship had left.

The same character who has had so many Mind-F*cks, PTSD incidents and saved countless lives over the years at the expense of his physical body and mind, that any other normal person would have been tossed into an institution long ago.

How many other people do you know who would laugh while getting a blade shoved in their chest?

Yes, Picard is a gentleman and uses his logic and reason to diffuse a situation.... But you do not want to fuk with him.

^This was relating to a thread in another forum asking who was the ultimate Captain between Kirk and Picard (An age-old debate in itself)

What brought me to the above post was when another member went on about how Picard seemed more passive than Kirk and relied more on his brains than his physical abilities.

What I saw in the movies wasn't much different than what I saw throughout the series. In Nemesis and First Contact, Picard swayed towards the Action side of his personality, while Generations and Insurrection mostly went the other way.

He had many moments going both ways though his time in Star Trek.

I personally enjoyed all the TNG movies.... more so than the original series movies. (Granted I really liked Undiscovered Country and The Final Frontier)

--------

My apologies for possibly side-lining the thread topic, but then again, I guess I did cover some highlights and evolution of Picard in the series. Much of this I personally didn't pick up on and missed the connections until after the 2nd or 3rd time watching the series though beginning to end like Terran_Empire is now doing.

Through my first watch through of TNG, I thought Picard was a bit on the dull side and didn't take many chances, but then through the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th time through, I started to put it all together and see how dynamic Picard really was.

I guess that is an alternate way of looking at it...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I liked that Picard was more a thinking man and an introvert than an action hero. That's what made him stand out from all the cookie cutter male leads on television, and it's the same reason I liked Grissom at the beginning of CSI. Anyone can beat another guy up, not just anyone can intellectually dominate the enemy. (Kirk could do both I guess).

 

[EnriqueH]

Terran, you and I appear to be on the same journey.

If it's alright with you, I'm going to piggyback on your thread so that there's not two guys posting threads about the same thing.

I was ahead of you during our TOS watching spree, but you surpassed me during the TOS movies.

Anyway, I finished Star Trek VI this morning and jumped right into Encounter at Farpoint, but I had some trouble getting into it.

Maybe I should've waited until tomorrow?

I love TNG, and I've already seen it from start to finish once before, but I've always had a little trouble getting into Encounter at Farpoint.

How is Encounter at Farpoint perceived here? Strong? Weak? Ok?

I've always seen it as half great, half ok.

Loved Admiral McCoy's cameo, which was my favorite part, (though my being a diehard TOS fan might make me a bit biased).

 

[wulfio]

I'm a hardcore TNG fan. So much so that Patrick Stewarts portrayal of Captain Picard influenced my formative years quite a bit. But I find the first 2 seasons of TNG pretty hit and miss. There's a few gems in there of course; measure of a man is arguably one of my favourite episodes from the entire franchise.

However my general sentiments towards them is most of the eps are generally not good, with one dimensional antagonists that merely serve as plot devices, and nothing more. But each episode has at least some redeeming qualities. And when I'm watching them, I tend to separate the overall quality of the episode with the small moments in character development that I really appreciate(like in Data's arch for example).

So in your example, in EaF, what I would take away from that episode is McCoy's interaction with Data, or even Data with Riker in the holodeck; and that would make me appreciate the episode. Because I knew there was a lot of growing pains in those early seasons, I just take things with a grain of salt, and that's my outlook on them whenever I do re-watches now.

 

[Terran_Empire]

Terran, you and I appear to be on the same journey.

If it's alright with you, I'm going to piggyback on your thread so that there's not two guys posting threads about the same thing.

I was ahead of you during our TOS watching spree, but you surpassed me during the TOS movies.

Anyway, I finished Star Trek VI this morning and jumped right into Encounter at Farpoint, but I had some trouble getting into it.

Maybe I should've waited until tomorrow?

I love TNG, and I've already seen it from start to finish once before, but I've always had a little trouble getting into Encounter at Farpoint.

How is Encounter at Farpoint perceived here? Strong? Weak? Ok?

I've always seen it as half great, half ok.

Loved Admiral McCoy's cameo, which was my favorite part, (though my being a diehard TOS fan might make me a bit biased).

It looks like we are, doesn't it? I hope you fell in love in STVI the same way I did. Incredible film.

I really liked EaF. Every scene with Q (notably the court sequence) was just on-screen gold. At and hour and a half it does drags it's heels a tad but that's forgivable considering all the great little scenes mixed in (the above mentioned holo-deck scene, introducing La Forge, etc).

I found Admiral McCoy's cameo was warm and familiar but for some reason it appears that old age has altered his lexicon and speech patterns as he sounds like a Louisiana fish angler who's never even heard of a telescope.

After watching "The Naked Now", "Code of Honor", and "The Last Outpost" I was starting to get a bit disheartened. Each of these episodes has merit and some great scenes but overall they lacked the dynamism I remembered TNG for.

"Where No One Has Gone Before" restored my faith however. Great episode, great concepts. The scene where Picard, La Forge and Data are completely bewildered at being thrown past their galaxy and several others was really well done.

 

[EnriqueH]

Terran, you and I appear to be on the same journey.

If it's alright with you, I'm going to piggyback on your thread so that there's not two guys posting threads about the same thing.

I was ahead of you during our TOS watching spree, but you surpassed me during the TOS movies.

Anyway, I finished Star Trek VI this morning and jumped right into Encounter at Farpoint, but I had some trouble getting into it.

Maybe I should've waited until tomorrow?

I love TNG, and I've already seen it from start to finish once before, but I've always had a little trouble getting into Encounter at Farpoint.

How is Encounter at Farpoint perceived here? Strong? Weak? Ok?

I've always seen it as half great, half ok.

Loved Admiral McCoy's cameo, which was my favorite part, (though my being a diehard TOS fan might make me a bit biased).

It looks like we are, doesn't it? I hope you fell in love in STVI the same way I did. Incredible film.

EPIC FAIL. You didn't read my posts.

Kidding. There's so many topics in this baby that I don't blame you.

I actually DIDN'T care for VI very much this last viewing and I get into why in the movie thread.

In a way, it's my least favorite of the 6 films at this point. I used to rank it highly, and I kinda understand why some people love it, but I think it has its share of glaring flaws.

I really liked EaF. Every scene with Q (notably the court sequence) was just on-screen gold. At and hour and a half it does drags it's heels a tad but that's forgivable considering all the great little scenes mixed in (the above mentioned holo-deck scene, introducing La Forge, etc).

I found Admiral McCoy's cameo was warm and familiar but for some reason it appears that old age has altered his lexicon and speech patterns as he sounds like a Louisiana fish angler who's never even heard of a telescope.

After watching "The Naked Now", "Code of Honor", and "The Last Outpost" I was starting to get a bit disheartened. Each of these episodes has merit and some great scenes but overall they lacked the dynamism I remembered TNG for.

"Where No One Has Gone Before" restored my faith however. Great episode, great concepts. The scene where Picard, La Forge and Data are completely bewildered at being thrown past their galaxy and several others was really well done.

I'm rewatching Encounter at Farpoint today. I was not in the right mood yesterday, I had people in and out of the living room all day, just not a 2-hour window conducive to immersing in a show or movie, so I decided to rewatch it and get my TNG viewing spree off to a good start.

 

[q264]

You guys are in for a real treat with a "fresh" run through of TNG. The pilot might lurch like two separate stories that have been slapped together, but it's still a great building point for some of the characters and key themes of the series. I've even come to appreciate the klunky first season episodes, it really feels like a brand spanking new ship that, like its crew, needs some breaking in. Early Picard is great because you see him so uncomfortable with children and unable to have a real personal life aboard the Enteprise. Those early episodes plant the seeds for some great moments in the Picard arc. He is always such a badass and in my opinion one of the best characters of all-time. It also doesn't hurt that the man is played by a brilliant actor who could teach a masterclass in masterclasses.

Also, while I still think Star Trek VI is awesome and one of the best Trek movies, ever since I studied Shakespeare I've come too appreciate The Undiscovered Country even less for some reason. YMMV.

 

[EnriqueH]

I'm glad I rewatched Encounter at Farpoint, because I *did* enjoy quite a bit. The editing seems a tad off, but there's still much to enjoy here.

I used to love Naked Now back in the day. Today, I think it's still enjoyable but flawed. Funny, but I didn't remember this being one of the "Wesley saves the day" episodes but it is! Y'know, I was never a staunch anti-Wesley person, (though I guess that might change when I go through the series again), but they could've toned down his Mary Sue status just a bit.

I'm enjoying Picard and Riker quite a bit. The whole cast is good. I was never a big Data fan, he's good/ok, don't get me wrong, but I always liked Riker more as a character and wish Riker hadn't taken so much of a backseat to Data in the movies.

 

[Terran_Empire]

I'm glad I rewatched Encounter at Farpoint, because I *did* enjoy quite a bit. The editing seems a tad off, but there's still much to enjoy here.

I used to love Naked Now back in the day. Today, I think it's still enjoyable but flawed. Funny, but I didn't remember this being one of the "Wesley saves the day" episodes but it is! Y'know, I was never a staunch anti-Wesley person, (though I guess that might change when I go through the series again), but they could've toned down his Mary Sue status just a bit.

I'm enjoying Picard and Riker quite a bit. The whole cast is good. I was never a big Data fan, he's good/ok, don't get me wrong, but I always liked Riker more as a character and wish Riker hadn't taken so much of a backseat to Data in the movies.

The Naked Now is great for some laughs watching Gates and Patrick acting like buffoons and all but the Data/Yar scene just rubbed me the wrong way for some reason. It's not a bad way to spend 45mins but it feels weak next to TNG's scope and scale.

Picard is impossible to not love, and I agree on Riker. I am 10 episodes in and he is kicking a** everywhere. Hide and Q has become an instant favorite of mine already. Coming off of 79 TOS episodes which had little to no continuity between episodes/seasons...this was very, very refreshing.

 

[wulfio]

One thing about TNG that I really like, is I think of all the trek shows, it has the most talented cast.

 

[DigificWriter]

I also just started working my way through TNG, beginning with my first-ever viewing of "Encounter" (which I had never seen despite growing up with TNG on the air in syndication), and I find myself at a loss as to why it's become so retroactively maligned.

The Naked Now has always been one of my favorite early TNG episodes (out of the ones I've seen), and it's fun watching the crew go a bit stir-crazy even though we don't know all that much about them.

 

[EnriqueH]

I saw Hide & Q, Haven and The Big Goodbye today, and I enjoyed all three.

Hide & Q was a stronger Q episode than I had remembered. Picard and crew seem to think of Q as someone who wants to pester, harass and possibly hurt them, but I now see Q as someone who wants to give them tough love. But the ending seemed to be a copy of what happened to Trelane. I wonder if they originally wanted this to be a Trelane episode?

Haven, I enjoyed for Lwaxana Troi, but also because I enjoyed seeing a little Betazoid culture, and the continued exploration of the Riker-Troi relationship.

Big Goodbye was a fun, whimsical episode in the vein of TOS' Shore Leave, (though nowhere near as good IMO). TNG is still not polished but I see the cast, particularly Patrick Stewart, as starting to feel comfortable in their character skins.