Starship Troopers (spoilers)

[Holdfast]

I find the movie to be a pretty sharp and interesting satire until the last mission, when it suddenly becomes exactly the sort of rah-rah "ain't war an adventure" flick that it earlier ridiculed, as it certainly seems that the protagonists achieve what could be a defining victory in the war. If the filmmakers had had real stones, everyone would have died abrupt and meaningless deaths, but the demands of commerce evidently required some sort of upbeat finale.

That's the kind of 'upbeat finale' that's appropriately disturbing, though. Fascism triumphing over its enemies is more unsettling then it being defeated, no?

Frankly, no, not when the "enemy" is not once shown to be capable of any kind of compassion. Suppose that, during WW2, the fate of the world came down to zombies vs. Nazi Germany. Sorry, but I'll always root for humans, no matter how corrupt, over literally mindless bugs/creatures.

If there had been hints that the bugs had their own civilization, feelings, love, etc., that'd be a different story, but that's not what the movie presented.

I was rooting for the humans in the end too, but for me, that's one of the movies assets. You end up rooting for a fascist empire yourself, in just the same way as the humans in the movie do, and cheering along. And then you remember what the Federation is all about... and you STILL cheer along because it's just good fun. Elegantly effective ending, and a beautiful depiction of what propaganda does, when two opposing ideologies clash (fascism and communism in the movie, but could really be anything).

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I thoroughly enjoyed the film Starship Troopers. Every few years I enjoy rewatching it. Someday I'll reread the book to see how it holds up to the film.

Even though I'm an ignernt American, neither the satire of fascism, nor the serious statements on the flip side regarding the responsibility of the individual to society, went over my head. Imagine that!

Do your part!

The cast was great, and Jake Busey's performance was memorable. I love the score by Basil Poledouris. The visual effects were bleeding edge at the time, and they still hold up.

Possibly another allusion to WWII Germany in addition to those mentioned so far: the use of the rank "Sky Marshal" might allude not only to "Air Marshal", a general officer in the Royal Air Force, but perhaps it also alludes to "Generalfeldmarschall", especially given the uniforms.

The immediate sequel Starship Troopers 2: Hero of the Federation sucks seriously huge quantities of ass, so don't say I didn't warn you. I haven't seen Starship Troopers 3: Marauder yet. Rumors of a fourth film circulate.

 

[lurok]

I was rooting for the humans in the end too, but for me, that's one of the movies assets. You end up rooting for a fascist empire yourself, in just the same way as the humans in the movie do, and cheering along. And then you remember what the Federation is all about... and you STILL cheer along because it's just good fun. Elegantly effective ending, and a beautiful depiction of what propaganda does, when two opposing ideologies clash (fascism and communism in the movie, but could really be anything).

I may be (probably) alone in not minding if bugs had succeeded. Unlikely for Hollywood narrative, I know. But I think that's what makes the satire so smart...without disagreeing with anything you've said

 

[TV's Frank]

Are most movies about individuals during wartime this sad?

Uh... have you not seen Apocalypse Now, Flags of Our Fathers/Letters from Iwo Jima, Saving Private Ryan, The Hurt Locker, etc., etc.? Depressing and downbeat pretty much goes with the territory, yeah.



I find the movie to be a pretty sharp and interesting satire until the last mission, when it suddenly becomes exactly the sort of rah-rah "ain't war an adventure" flick that it earlier ridiculed, as it certainly seems that the protagonists achieve what could be a defining victory in the war. If the filmmakers had had real stones, everyone would have died abrupt and meaningless deaths, but the demands of commerce evidently required some sort of upbeat finale.

And no, it's no good to claim that the upbeat ending is a sly parody of upbeat war movie endings, because there's nothing sly or winking about it. It's a betrayal of the earlier promise and daring, plain and simple.

Actually, it's a perfect ending for what the film sets out to be, which is a giant 2-hour propaganda reel that could be used to recruit new soldiers. Propaganda films set out to demonize the enemy and at the end of Starship Troopers the victory that is cheered is not the defeat of the enemy, but simply that they made their enemy afraid. It's a bitter, inhuman ending, but if you think about the recruiting ads which book-end the movie, then you realize the entire movie can be viewed as one, long ad meant to rally citizens to join the militia. It's actually a very layered and subversive film from start to finish, made by a director and screenwriter with incisive intellects, wit and experience.

 

[TV's Frank]

At what point would the enemy have shown compassion?

I don't mean to humans, but maybe to each other. There could have been medic bugs; we could see bugs trying to protect or mourning their fallen comrades. But no, they're presented as mindless.

Hell, almost everything we see of the bugs is when they're under fire by humans, to which their reaction is pretty understandable.

It really doesn't take gigantic leaps of imagination to conceive of hints that might show the bugs in a better light. We could have seen Doogie suppressing information showing that the bugs' homeworld is a peaceful one, or that they're pleading for an end to the war. If the movie had been really daring, it could have shown Rico acccidentally learning as much, thus requiring Doogie to murder him in order to keep the war machine going.

Either way, when discussing what the movie could have shown, saying "but they didn't show that!" is not all that convincing.

But again, you're trying to put this movie into a normal movie box, where you have these twists and reveals and character moments. In actual war propaganda films, the enemy is always painted as being a complete "other". They don't think like us, live like us, love like us and therefore they are a threat and must be destroyed. If a propaganda film stopped to examine the enemy and show another side to them, then it fails and those who create the propaganda will lose the attempt to rally support from their own people. This is what Verhoeven is recreating in this film, albeit through the lens of Heinlein and sci-fi. As I stated earlier, this film is presented as entirely one-side for a reason, because that's what propaganda is and that is what governments present. The fact that Starship Troopers is somehow amazingly enjoyable at the same is an elegant feat for which Verhoeven still is not praised enough.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Entertaining and (disturbingly) funny movie.

Every time I see it, I can't decide whether it's incredibly smart or dumb. Or both.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I love the score by Basil Poledouris.

I was almost going to forget about it. Inconceivable! The soundtrack was awesome.

But so is most of Poledouris' work.

 

[lennier1]

I find the movie to be a pretty sharp and interesting satire until the last mission, when it suddenly becomes exactly the sort of rah-rah "ain't war an adventure" flick that it earlier ridiculed, as it certainly seems that the protagonists achieve what could be a defining victory in the war. If the filmmakers had had real stones, everyone would have died abrupt and meaningless deaths, but the demands of commerce evidently required some sort of upbeat finale.

You do realize that the whole thing from the "do your part" ad in the beginning to the fleet scene at the end is a whole sequence is supposed to be part of the broadcast of that regime's propaganda channel? And ending the propaganda during that timeslot with everyone dying instead of the Fedration's heroes winning a glorious victory would kinda defeat the purpose.
It's like tuning into one of FOX News' broadcasts and seeing a third-grader make Bill O'Reilly break down in tears.

 

[Tulin]

The movie was a farce, a joke. It was a parody of the novel, nothing more. It should be treated as such.

In fact Verhoeven commented on the fact that that was the intent. And that he was shocked that most Americans took it at face-value because they didn't understand the irony.

Americans are famous for not being able to understand irony.

It's like a cultural blindspot thing.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

We're ignernt!!!!

 

[Gaith]

Propaganda films set out to demonize the enemy and at the end of Starship Troopers the victory that is cheered is not the defeat of the enemy, but simply that they made their enemy afraid. It's a bitter, inhuman ending, but if you think about the recruiting ads which book-end the movie, then you realize the entire movie can be viewed as one, long ad meant to rally citizens to join the militia. It's actually a very layered and subversive film from start to finish, made by a director and screenwriter with incisive intellects, wit and experience.

Eh, say Verhoeven did set out to make an old-fashioned war melodrama from start to finish. Here's the thing: those are really, really easy to do, upbeat endings included. Okay, so the protagonists and their society appear vaguely fascist. That's pretty easy, too; just put eagles all over the uniforms.

None of this strikes me as particularly "layered and subversive"; sorry. It would have been more challenging and layered, not less, for the movie to have changed gears at some point and have the protagonists question the systems around them. Without such a shift, it's a somewhat provocative but ultimately shallow and all-too-easy exercise - imho.

 

[TexasNightt]

Was I supposed to read the book so I could get the irony?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ The book is not a joke. The movie is. So if you read the book first, you're likely to be severely disappointed.

 

[Goji]

The movie came out when I was 11, and my parents thought it would be too violent for me (not an unreasonable evaluation of it). So I read the book instead. I was probably too young for it, I guess, but I thought it was awful. I saw the movie when it came out on video but was probably still too young to really appreciate it on anything more than a superficial action movie level. The bugs were neat, anyway. I saw it again as an adult and have come to really like it.

Besides, any movie with Neil Patrick Harris *and* Michael Ironside has to be good.

 

[TV's Frank]

Propaganda films set out to demonize the enemy and at the end of Starship Troopers the victory that is cheered is not the defeat of the enemy, but simply that they made their enemy afraid. It's a bitter, inhuman ending, but if you think about the recruiting ads which book-end the movie, then you realize the entire movie can be viewed as one, long ad meant to rally citizens to join the militia. It's actually a very layered and subversive film from start to finish, made by a director and screenwriter with incisive intellects, wit and experience.

Eh, say Verhoeven did set out to make an old-fashioned war melodrama from start to finish. Here's the thing: those are really, really easy to do, upbeat endings included. Okay, so the protagonists and their society appear vaguely fascist. That's pretty easy, too; just put eagles all over the uniforms.

None of this strikes me as particularly "layered and subversive"; sorry. It would have been more challenging and layered, not less, for the movie to have changed gears at some point and have the protagonists question the systems around them. Without such a shift, it's a somewhat provocative but ultimately shallow and all-too-easy exercise - imho.

I think its subversive aspect is not something contained in the story itself but in its effect on a general audience. It's subversive when it is able to whip up audience frenzy, who find themselves cheering on a society that is clearly fascist and simply demonizing its enemy, and who never once make the connections that this could have been a WWII propaganda film following Nazis who are threatened by frighteningly ugly "Westerners". That is what I find so amazingly subversive about it and the fact that it still is a really well-crafted and thrilling movie to boot. There is so much going on in this film from a external standpoint as it not only adheres to both the propaganda film format, Hollywood war movies and some elements of the book, but then satirizes all of these elements simultaneously. It's a fine high wire that just doesn't roll off the Hollywood assembly every year.

 

[Too Much Fun]

You people calling this movie stupid or a guilty pleasure may be surprised to know how highly regarded it is in some circles. On another message board, someone made a thread asking what the greatest movies of the last 15 years were, and people actually seriously criticized me for not including it when I made my own list.

I think it's trying to do what a few other Paul Verhoven movies (i.e. "Robocop", "Total Recall") did more successfully - be a deliberately wild, whimsical, and freaky action movie while at the same time cleverly parodying some aspects of American culture in order to give a clever satirical subtext to the mayhem. I respect the attempt, but I don't think the movie quite succeeds.

Being able to function as both an entertaining romp and a truly eloquent satire can be true hallmarks of greatness for a movie (i.e. "Dr. Strangelove"), but I think this movie is held back from achieving its ambitions by how simplistically its characters are written and acted. There's just no one in the cast played and written with as much charisma and depth as the protagonists and villains in "Robocop" or "Total Recall".

The leads are all bland and forgettable, which is why most of the cast hasn't had much of a career since the movie, with the exception of Neil Patrick Harris, who is off screen for so much of the movie that his role could be described as a glorified cameo. People have argued at me that this doesn't matter because the characters are supposed to be bland (that's part of the point of its message about patriotism and military, I guess?), but this doesn't change the fact that the flatness of the characters makes the movie less absorbing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"MEDIC!!!!"

 

[Gepard]

You people calling this movie stupid or a guilty pleasure may be surprised to know how highly regarded it is in some circles. On another message board, someone made a thread asking what the greatest movies of the last 15 years were, and people actually seriously criticized me for not including it when I made my own list.

I'm truly baffled, both by this and the love I see for it here. I remember it was widely panned when it was first released -- an opinion I resisted at the time, because I really, really, really wanted to like a movie about people in spaceships fighting giant bugs. Alas, it sucked once I saw it, and time hasn't helped it any.

There are some moments in the film that work -- e.g. the scenes involving Neil Patrick Harris -- which just goes to underscore how off-the-mark the bulk of the film is. I think it takes a specific kind of performance to sell satire when the screenplay plays it as straight as Starship Trooper's does, and NPH's effective work only helps highlight how much the acting and directing suck. The characters are unlikeable idiots ("But they're supposed to be! It's satire!" Whatever.) and the production design screams "worst parts of the 1990s". It's up there with the 1998 remake of Lost in Space in terms of having dated horribly.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm truly baffled, both by this and the love I see for it here.

I guess those of us who like it are morons.

 

[lennier1]

People have argued at me that this doesn't matter because the characters are supposed to be bland (that's part of the point of its message about patriotism and military, I guess?), but this doesn't change the fact that the flatness of the characters makes the movie less absorbing.

Part of that is deliberate. Take a closer look at the cast and you'll see how many of those actors came from a soap opera background. It's not entirely by accident.