• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Starship Transporter

Hatchet2k4

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Red Shirt
I was thinking about the new movie and how the Enterprise was built on land, wondering just how they may have gotton the thing into orbit when it hit me.. Is it possible they have industrial grade transporters able to beam an entire starship up? The largest things I can think of that have been transported are shuttles or the whales from STIV. Do you think there is a maximum size limit on an object to be beamed? The energy requirements must go up pretty steeply as compared to beaming a few people..

Anyway just some random thoughts I had to try and stimulate some board discussion. :)
 
Beaming a ship of a certain size would likely take a large portion of power to acomplish.

Shuttles can be transported ... as can large groups of people, and something akin the size of an 8472 bioship (the issue why Voyager failed in that little thing though was because the ship in question was impervious to their technology).

I guess that larger ships can transport larger objects.
Depends really.
And I really don't know if they have industrial grade transporters capable of transporting whole starships. They were never mentioned.
 
I always wondered if they could use "industrial size replicators" and just replicate entire ships.

It's certainly within the realm of possibility.
Though, with numerous materials being hard to replicate (at least it was initially), I would imagine they can only replicate smaller portions of the ship and then assemble them together (then again, most limitations in replication were encountered onboard starships that usually don't have industrial grade replicators).

That, and there's also a question of just how large industrial grade replicators are.
They would likely be larger than replicators used to create spare parts/weapons/food/whatnot ... but how much larger exactly?

Up to a shuttle size, if not twice that size ... well, quite possibly.
If you want to replicate ships ... then you would have to replicate it in portions, and then later assemble them.

I could imaging that it likely wouldn't be up until later in time (perhaps early 25th century) that drydocks would be usually equipped with transporter/replicator pads that also serve as illumination points, and then direct the materialization process in a pattern to form a star-ship, or pieces held in specific position by force-fields/low level tractor beams and then dozens of workbees just sealing them together.
 
It strikes me as strange to invent ways to haul a starship from surface to orbit, when the very nature of starships is to move from place to place. Certainly it should be trivially easy to lift off from Earth's surface and reach orbit, as compared to the much greater feats of flying between planets or flying between stars.

Today's rockets have a hard time going to orbit - but then again, they are completely incapable of flying between planets or stars. At the very best, they can coast between planets. Starships are by their very nature much more capable, so giving them aid in reaching orbit sounds like equipping an aircraft carrier with scuba-geared mules for getting her out of dock when her own propellers would do the job much better.

Though, with numerous materials being hard to replicate (at least it was initially), I would imagine they can only replicate smaller portions of the ship and then assemble them together

Whatever the reason, starships are always shown assembled of relatively small pieces - in floating dock scenes and the STXI ground yard scene alike, their hulls consist of plates a few dozen meters on the side at best. One would think this would never be done if replicators could create larger structures, or perhaps could create entire starships seamlessly by starting at one end and proceeding towards the other.

Then again, perhaps the piece-by-piece construction is for the purpose of later being able to remove individual pieces for maintenance work? Archer's ship certainly benefited from having jettisonable hull plates in "Minefield"...

Timo Saloniemi
 
If they had the power to simply relicate an entire starship in moments, they would probably not have any need for things as simple as starships. I believe that's allready mentioned in some of the trek tech books somewhere. As for transporting huge objects, doubling the size would probably mean the power and computer system requirements would be cubed at least, quickly growing beyond even Trek tech.
 
Humanity by that analogy could have sent out a fleet of probes to explore the galaxy.
Janeway clearly mentioned to 7 that humanity wanted to see what's out there for themselves.
The need for star-ships is there as a result.

One thing that has been a subject of common conjecture is the time needed to construct a star-ship.
No direct on-screen evidence has been given, however I do find it ludicrous that it would take years for them to construct one especially when you take into consideration their capabilities (even without replicator use).
Transporters existed essentially before the Federation was founded, as did construction technologies/methods.

One final thing ... comparing Federation ships to naval vessels of contemporary time is a fundamentally flawed way of thinking.
Even on-screen evidence directly showed Picards astonishment that a simpleton from the late 20th century would be ludicrous enough to compare the Enterprise-D to a naval vessel.

I know that people need to find some common ground in order to explain things logically, but operating on a flawed premise is hardly the way to do it since we are talking about star-ships capable of FTL for one thing and thousands of other things, further aided by technology from over 300 years into the future (which was also hyper accellerated in development because some Federation members have been in space for hundreds/thousands of years before Humans).
 
On replicating Starships, if it's not possible to do a whole complete starship then would replicating the framework and exterior panelling not be an easier job, then put in all the interior stuff later. It'd be like building a house where you have the building prebuilt and all you'd have to do is put in the wiring, plumbing etc.
 
This thread kinda reminds me of the Ent. episode "Dead Stop". That space dock thingy that conformed to the ship's size and replicated panels/hull plating. Very clever contraption. Anything like that exist in the 24th century era Trek?
 
This thread kinda reminds me of the Ent. episode "Dead Stop". That space dock thingy that conformed to the ship's size and replicated panels/hull plating. Very clever contraption. Anything like that exist in the 24th century era Trek?

I would say the technology on that 'Dead Stop' station is on par with the late 24th century of the Federation, so it should be possible.
 
But even the Dead Stop station couldn't replicate an entire ship. The repairs took a certain amount of time and had to be done in stages, a few pieces at a time.
 
But even the Dead Stop station couldn't replicate an entire ship. The repairs took a certain amount of time and had to be done in stages, a few pieces at a time.

Ah, but you are forgetting the fact that the station in question plotted to steal one of the Enterprise's crew members for itself.
The station could have easily increased the number of hours needed to repair the ship so it can get Mayweather and making it look like an accident.

So the actual amount of time needed to repair the ship could have been lower than what was presented.
I'm not saying it's 100% like that, but it's a possibility.

And true, while the station was not seen replicating entire ships, in this particular instance, it wasn't necessary because it already had a pre-existing ship to repair, and a crewmember to snatch.
So we don't really know if it's capable of replicating entire ships.

Though I wouldn't put it past SF's abilties in the late 24th century that they can replicate a shuttle in one go for example with industrial grade replicators/transporters.
 
Didn't Michael Okuda say that there was no way to replicate a ship? I forget the rationale, but it seemed reasonable at the time.
 
Pretty sure you would have to replicate the ship in components and stages and put it together by hand. After all, we have rarely or never seen Starfleet officers using replicators to build working tools, weapons or equipment.
 
Replicators were good for producing a working phaser in DS9 "Civil Defense" and a working slugthrower plus a miniature transporter in "Field of Fire". Replicators were supposedly used as the basis of the exocomps, too, allowing them to replicate themselves to new shapes and functions.

There may be tradeoffs between size and complexity, but it sounds unlikely that complexity alone would prevent replication of a device. OTOH, size alone could be an obstacle, but we've never been led to believe that replicators would be particularly energy-intensive devices.

Except perhaps in VOY, where keeping replicator use to a minimum supposedly created energy reserves worth noting during the first season. But this was never explicated as the reason for the replicator rations. It's just as possible that the rations were there because so many replicators were broken; later on, they were used as a disciplinary technique even though the ship was back to full operational capacity. And simultaneously with the replicator use rationing, the use of holodecks was permitted without known limitations. OTOH, shutting down life support on a single deck was said to create useful savings, so that might be the yardstick by which to measure replicator power use, too.

Size could also be a limitation if replicators lose cohesion when creating large objects, or if replicator arrays are expensive to build and have to be the size of the target in order to work properly.

And as said, even if single-piece replication were possible, the ships might benefit from consisting of smaller pieces; that would allow for maintenance and repairs also at facilities that lacked starship-sized replicators.

Timo Saloniemi
 
And automated station similar to the one in Enterprise - but dedicated to starship construction - would make starship assembly a very fast process.

Something like that being used (possibly for the first time by the Fed) may be why we saw so many Galaxy class ships all of a sudden in the Dominion War (DS9)...

Tech like that could produce a ship a day - and pump out *fleets* of starships much faster that Starfleet could produce and train crews for them! And you have to think that by the 24th century...that station the NX-01 encountered would be well inside Federation space...and *long ago* was probably neutralized, taken apart and studied - that may even be where replicator technology *came* from...reverse-engineering that station...

And later on...Starfleet/the Federation could move a step up to all-at-once starship replication - perhaps sometime in the 25th century...

(An interesting separate discussion would be the advantages/disadvantages of starships built/replicated with a single one-piece hull vs those constructed with modular hulls built of many smaller parts/plates...)
 
The ability to build a starship per day would probably lead to a doctrinal change. Battles could be won through attrition, which would promote the building of unmanned ships specifically designed for attrition.

In contrast, what we saw in the Dominion War suggests that new starships cannot be easily built, if at all, within the timespan of a half-decade conflict: there were virtually no starships of war-dedicated types, only prewar types - and thus probably ships built before the war.

Even the Dominion apparently couldn't build quite that quickly, but their ship types don't show verifiable, continuing prevalence of prewar models...

Timo Saloniemi
 
^ You're once again assuming that the ability to quickly build starships would lead to the ability--or the desire--to quickly develop new designs. This is not usually the case, especially if the government in question is the sane and responsible type: in the event of a massive full-scale war, the only designs that will enter widespread mass production will be designs with a proven track record, or refinements of old sub-par designs with new systems that allow them to perform better.

That we don't see many more Defiants than we did is rather peculiar, but then there's no indication that the Sao Paolo is another experimental craft pilfered out of space dock, so it's entirely possible that Starfleet actually constructed hundreds of Defiants for various fronts throughout the war. There were probably a few designs we didn't see as well, and upgrades to existing designs we wouldn't have recognized; the category for new designs is filled perfectly by the Norway/Steamrunner/Akira trinity anyway.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top