Starship Security

[Sgt_G]

This isn't to say woman can't do the job / shouldn't be cops. First, I know lots of women who are bigger / strong than I am, but then again I'm shorter than average height. Second, there are situations where you NEED a female cop (or female soldier / Marine) to defuse things or to deal with female suspects / victims. But when it comes to brass-knuckles hand-to-hand combat, a female security officer will *usually* be at a disadvantage, and the risk of death increases greatly.

A real-world example: recent case of four cops, two men (one of which isn't much taller than I am, making me wonder how he got on the force) and two women, tried to subdue a combative mentally-ill male suspect. The man died while they were trying to take him into custody, and now there are allegations of possible excessive forced was used. One can wonder that if three of the four cops were physically larger than they are, perhaps they could have subdued him without needing to resort to their tool-belts, and maybe the man would still be alive today.

Cross-posting with DamarsKanar: Same logic applies. Use of phaser on stun is equivalent to modern tasers, increasing the risk of severe injury / death due to pre-existing medical condition. What the OP was saying: Intruder Alert = let's send five to eight guys all six-foot-two, not one guy five-foot-ten and two gals five-foot-even.

 

[DamarsKanar]

true enough. although i doubt vulcans get into security all that much. a few notable exceptions withstanding

They don't seem to (excluding the obvious) since I suppose Vulcans prefer to stay away from more violent pursuits. But if they did, I think we'd be seeing most humans out of a job in that department.

Edit: @Sgt_G You make a good point on this in terms of modern situations, although I have to assume that by the 24th century we will have less risky stun abilities than modern tasers. I'm not sure there's ever been a case in Trek of a stun-setting phaser accidentally killing someone? I've always thought the answer to a lot of gun violence IRL was perfecting the art of immediate and minimally risky stun guns, but that's probably getting off topic.

 

[Tomalak]

Kira takes down multiple Cardassians, Klingons and Jem'Hadar, sometimes whilst injured. Bajorans are perhaps more robust than humans though.

Given the disparate strengths of various species throughout the galaxy, against whom many human males can't hope to match, physical strength shouldn't be a major factor in deciding on security officers.

It's all about phasers and reactions. Human female security officers are clearly just as capable as males. Or incapable, given the dramatic impotence of Red Shirts in Trek.

 

[Captain Triggered]

This isn't to say woman can't do the job / shouldn't be cops. .

Honestly, I'm not sure they should be. But it's no longer PC to say that people in physically demanding/dangerous jobs be... physical, so there's no point in arguing it. So you get embarrassing footage of women cops trying to arrest someone as they simply laugh it off and jog away.

 

[Captain Triggered]

Btw SGT. i don't consider height an issue here. Plenty of sturdy short people.

 

[DamarsKanar]

Honestly, I'm not sure they should be. But it's no longer PC to say that people in physically demanding/dangerous jobs be... physical, so there's no point in arguing it. So you get embarrassing footage of women cops trying to arrest someone as they simply laugh it off and jog away.

But there are a lot of situations where female cops might be very useful (especially with female victims, etc.). And police do more than just chase and take down people.

 

[Sgt_G]

Btw SGT. i don't consider height an issue here. Plenty of sturdy short people.

True that.

But I recall an episode of DRAGNET (yes, I'm that old) in which Sgt Joe Friday was giving a recruiting lecture, and this one guy said he applied but was turned down for being too short. I'd guess him to be 5'-8" or 5'-9". He said he could "handle his own", to which Sgt Joe Friday replied that by being taller and thus more intimidating, police officers could avoid hand-to-hand situations because the bad guys just knew better than to try something. Of course, that was back in the day when women were either parking enforcement or office clerks. (Now I recall the opening scenes to Charlie's Angles.)

 

[1001001]

i gotta say, this PC culture is really starting to get to me. now you guys act like you're shocked that there could even be a difference in the sexes? ever interacted with a 100 pound girl, the type starfleet loves to put in security? ever playwrestled or tested strength bit during intercourse or something? they're as physically imposing as children and i'm not exaggerating

"Play wrestled or tested strength during intercourse"?

Combined with the convicted rapist in your avatar....yikes.

Feel free to complain about "PC culture" somewhere else. This is a thread about starship security.

Everyone please stick to the topic.

Thanks.

 

[BillJ]

seen those embarrassing videos of new york city ladycops struggling to arrest someone 3 on 1, etc?

All one has to do is watch episodes of Cops to see that many male officers are often in the same exact situation.

 

[Spot261]

ever playwrestled or tested strength bit during intercourse or something?

Ummmmm.......never really seen sex as a test of strength.

But it's no longer PC to say that people in physically demanding/dangerous jobs be... physical,

Having physical standards in a physically demanding role is fine. Defining physicality by gender is not.

EDIT: Ah, sorry digits got there first....

 

[Dilandu]

Just never understood:; why there are so little automatic defenses even in vital sections of Federation ships? With the transporters, the opponent could attack just basically any point - having a couple of hidden automatic phaser turrets under ceiling could be a real help in case of boarding action. But as far as I could remember, the only canon episode where any kind of automatic defenses were used, was in animated series (and it was took over by another malevolent energy being...)

 

[Tomalak]

I presume we rarely see unsuccessful boarding actions because they would be so easy to defeat - you just block the intruders in with forcefields. By definition the successful ones are able to circumvent that somehow. But it must be very rare.

 

[Dilandu]

I presume we rarely see unsuccessful boarding actions because they would be so easy to defeat - you just block the intruders in with forcefields. By definition the successful ones are able to circumvent that somehow. But it must be very rare.

Well, the simplest way is just to teleport your troops into vital locations - with the vanguard transportation of stun grenades, or armed drones, or other disposable "shock" units. After you sucessfully beamed into vital areas, there isn't much sence in trying to contain you with force fields; you already have vital ship parts under control.

 

[Tomalak]

But you have to get past the shields first.

 

[Nakita Akita]

At least TNG and the Defiant in DS9 had protocols for locking out or rerouting command functions, though those protocols probably weren't used as often as they should have been. Not sure we ever saw that used in VOY.

But on the Defiant Kira only had to say" Major Kira Nerys security level Four access code Delta Zulu 4112" to real ease all of the Defiant's systems.
How difficult would that be to fake?

 

[Nakita Akita]

Kira takes down multiple Cardassians, Klingons and Jem'Hadar, sometimes whilst injured. Bajorans are perhaps more robust than humans though.

Given the disparate strengths of various species throughout the galaxy, against whom many human males can't hope to match, physical strength shouldn't be a major factor in deciding on security officers.

It's all about phasers and reactions. Human female security officers are clearly just as capable as males. Or incapable, given the dramatic impotence of Red Shirts in Trek.

Comparing Kira to say Worf on TNG.
Kira is way more kick ass.

 

[DonIago]

But on the Defiant Kira only had to say" Major Kira Nerys security level Four access code Delta Zulu 4112" to real ease all of the Defiant's systems.
How difficult would that be to fake?

Same way on the E-D though. "Computer, reroute all command functions to Main Engineering, authorization Picard Delta 123!" or what-not.

It's not that much of a stretch to assume there was some passive biometric screening involved, if that helps.

And on the E-D it was exceptionally easy to fake because they had an officer on board who not only was capable of doing so, but did in fact do so with a degree of ease some might consider alarming.

 

[BillJ]

It's not that much of a stretch to assume there was some passive biometric screening involved, if that helps.

And on the E-D it was exceptionally easy to fake because they had an officer on board who not only was capable of doing so, but did in fact do so with a degree of ease some might consider alarming.

But obviously there was no biometric screening because of how easy Data took command in "Brothers".

 

[DonIago]

But obviously there was no biometric screening because of how easy Data took command in "Brothers".

Maybe Data was capable of fooling biometric sensors?

 

[MacLeod]

Security like most things on Trek is as a good or bad as the plot demands. But

But by the time of TNG you options like

Beam the intruder directly to the brig.

Put up forcefields and flood the area with anesthisine gas