Starship "acceleration" times ?

[at Quark's]

In most episodes, I get the impression that when a captain orders a ship to go to warp 6, say, there's a flash and the ship almost immediately seems to be at the desired speed.

But is this actually true , or is there an 'acceleration' phase involved? (I'm not even sure if the term would be appropriate when discussing warp propulsion, but here goes). I know that in TMP, the ship has to -relatively slowly- accelerate its way to warp 7, but that could be because of the state of the engine room and warp engine at that moment.

And, if there is an acceleration phase, how long would it typically take a starship from standstill to its top cruising warp speed ? Milliseconds? Seconds? Minutes ? Is anyting about this said in any technical manual ? (I don't posess these).

EDIT: actually, I meant speeds that are 'comfortable' for the ship, so perhaps I should have written: "how long would it typically take a starship from standstill to its standard warp speed ?"

 

[at Quark's]

--Please delete, accidental double post.

 

[David cgc]

I think it's generally assumed that acceleration isn't instantaneous, and that a ship always has to pass through warp 1, 2, 3, and so on to get to warp 7. The concept probably goes back further in the Trek Tech literature, but I remember the tech specs listed in the "Starship Spotter" book included a section on acceleration figures, broken out between rest to "critical momentum," critical momentum to warp 1, warp 1 to low cruising speed, low cruising speed to high cruising speed, and high cruising speed to maximum speed.

Flipping through, it looks like the authors didn't think it would take any starship more than about ten to fifteen seconds to go from relative stop to maximum warp, with the slowest acceleration generally being from rest to critical momentum, and the second slowest being from cruising warp to maximum warp.

I'm assuming those are "pedal to the metal" figures, and that a ship would usually accelerate a bit more gradually for all the same reasons I don't slam down my accelerator in my car every time a stoplight turns green. Since, as you point out, they were probably babying the engines in TMP, I guess that twenty-or-thirty second acceleration would be an upper limit on the day-to-day acceleration of a ship in normal use.

 

[MantaBase]

It really depends on what "warp" means. Folks always assumed it directly coupled with velocity. But, as I explained in an other thread, if you look at modern warp theory (and yes I know, applying reality to a fiction show is not exactly right), "warp factor" is not a measure of speed but a measure of the created "warp field". It is the combination of warp factor and sublight speed (and possibly something else called a dimensional factor) that determine the final effective velocity (x times the speed of light).

But that doesn't answer your question totally and that is based on theoretical physics in our 21st century and ST is fictional physics in a future time. But if it could apply to ST......

The ship can go into warp at any time, but there will be a delay as the warp field is generated.

They must have at least a slight forward movement (or it might be acceleration - the theory isn't clear to me here) in their reference - so sub-light propulsion must be functioning.

As the warp field generates, the space behind the ship extends - so the ship would elongate backwards.


The space in front of the ship compresses - if the ship moves forward inside the warp field it will elongate forward and then *flash* - it disappears.

How long would it take? As long as it takes to establish the warp field and hit the go button. In the theory, the ship doesn't have to accelerate to light speed since it never really goes faster than light speed (although - supposedly faster speeds will assist in the final effective velocity). Also explaining why there are no relativistic effects in ST - Warp drive is space warping technology - not velocity technology.

Anyways, that's one plausible explanation to fit the fiction. I am sure there are many - its fiction after all.

EDIT: Thanks for posting this - so anyone know of a canon(ish) source that describes the warp tech?

 

[Shark]

Well, for TMP I think the acceleration time was for the sake of drama. I think it also had to do with the new engines being experimental and un-tested which also upped the drama. For TNG and later shows I think the ships had rather quick acceleration times, tens of seconds instead of minutes. Just watch the episode "The Survivors" to see how quickly the Enterprise accelerates at warp.

 

[MantaBase]

Well, for TMP I think the acceleration time was for the sake of drama. I think it also had to do with the new engines being experimental and un-tested which also upped the drama. For TNG and later shows I think the ships had rather quick acceleration times, tens of seconds instead of minutes. Just watch the episode "The Survivors" to see how quickly the Enterprise accelerates at warp.

Well, if a minimum acceleration/velocity is required to go into warp that would make sense.

But you never see the ship accelerate into warp (passing the SOL) - they just go into warp - and then come out - sometimes moving very fast. Other times not moving fast at all.

 

[Shark]

Well, for TMP I think the acceleration time was for the sake of drama. I think it also had to do with the new engines being experimental and un-tested which also upped the drama. For TNG and later shows I think the ships had rather quick acceleration times, tens of seconds instead of minutes. Just watch the episode "The Survivors" to see how quickly the Enterprise accelerates at warp.

Well, if a minimum acceleration/velocity is required to go into warp that would make sense.

But you never see the ship accelerate into warp (passing the SOL) - they just go into warp - and then come out - sometimes moving very fast. Other times not moving fast at all.

I don't know that there is a minimum required speed for going to warp. We've seen the Enterprise jump to warp with little or no acceleration. And in the episode "Peak Performance" the Hathaway does a two second warp 'jump' from a standstill, so it would seem velocity/acceleration are not required. Just set in your coordinates, hit the "Warp" button and you're on your way!

 

[Timo]

Watching ST:FC, we might get the impression that primitive warp engines need to slowly accelerate to a "threshold" STL speed before jumping to warp. But that's not explicit in the movie at all, and possibly Cochrane just flew STL until he felt he had had enough time to prepare, or had put enough distance between the test rig and Earth (either in case of a big kaboom, or because his warp engines might not have worked well close to planets).

Sure, Cochrane mentions "critical velocity", but the context actually suggests this is unrelated to their ability to go to warp - after all, Riker said just seconds earlier that "warp threshold" was still 30 seconds away, suggesting the defining criteria for that threshold are not limited to "critical velocity" and might not even include that criterion at all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Go-Captain]

I only recall notable acceleration time when a ship is pushing its maximum warp speed either to that point or past that point. In those instances it can either be a second per whole factor, second per tenth, or second per hundredth. All other times they zip off, transition, and they're cruising.

If warp drive works more like real life warp theory, then the current theory requires a small amount of real world velocity in order to impart a vector on the warp field. By its nature the field has no preferred direction and will magnify the real velocity of a vessel. I believe this might partially explain why actual speed is not directly connected to warp factor. In the case of Cochran's critical speed, it might be he was aiming for a precise distance, so he required a precise speed and precise warp factor combination. For all we know he might have also had only enough fuel to launch and return, so if he messed up on the real speed he would have either been stranded in space or crash on Earth. Later ships can easily make corrections using impulse engines.

 

[Sgt_G]

In the Trek world, both on-screen and in text, acceleration (as with most things) only comes into play when the script-writer / author wants to convey a sense of urgency or suspense or otherwise needs it as plot device. Or perhaps just to fill some dead space in the action.

In the game-world of Star Fleet Battles, all action takes place below Warp-3, and all ships (save for freighters and such) have the same acceleration. Above Warp-3, outside of the tactical game but in the realm of the role-play-game setting, it was totally undefined. I authored an article that was published in the Captain's Log magazine in which I suggested that smaller ships (e.g., frigates and destroyers) have a better acceleration but lower top speed than larger ships (e.g. heavy cruisers and dreadnoughts). Ship from different empires but in the same weight-class will be about equal. The exception being the Orion pirate stealth ships; they rate one size-class smaller than they are (i.e., a light raider has better acceleration / lower top speed than equal-weight police cutters). If your small ship has enough of a head start, you may be able to get out of sensor range and change course and find a place to hide before the larger ship catches up. Conversely, a large ship will eventually outrun a smaller ship and never have to look back.

 

[Timo]

All other times they zip off, transition, and they're cruising.

...However, most of those times, even when the shots about "cruising" are dramatically established to be mere seconds after the "departure" shot, they don't quote the speed they have achieved. For all we know, Kirk commands warp six, the ship flashes out of orbit and is underway, and for the next fifteen minutes, she struggles from warp one to warp six with nary a comment from the crew.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Go-Captain]

All other times they zip off, transition, and they're cruising.

...However, most of those times, even when the shots about "cruising" are dramatically established to be mere seconds after the "departure" shot, they don't quote the speed they have achieved. For all we know, Kirk commands warp six, the ship flashes out of orbit and is underway, and for the next fifteen minutes, she struggles from warp one to warp six with nary a comment from the crew.

Timo Saloniemi

The scenes we have where there is a statement they have achieved cruising speed tend to be fast. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

 

[MantaBase]

If warp drive works more like real life warp theory, then the current theory requires a small amount of real world velocity in order to impart a vector on the warp field. By its nature the field has no preferred direction and will magnify the real velocity of a vessel. I believe this might partially explain why actual speed is not directly connected to warp factor. In the case of Cochran's critical speed, it might be he was aiming for a precise distance, so he required a precise speed and precise warp factor combination. For all we know he might have also had only enough fuel to launch and return, so if he messed up on the real speed he would have either been stranded in space or crash on Earth. Later ships can easily make corrections using impulse engines.

Exactly - if it is compared to RL theory. If they were using RL theory, the fast velocity implies Cochran's warp engines could only produce a weak field (just at WF 1) and a very short lived one. In a weak and short duration field you would want as much sublight velocity as possible to vector through the field before it collapses. It's almost like a jump drive.

It's funny to me that RL working theory they could never have known about actually kinda matches the shows, especially after TOS. Could be they had science consultants that at least knew how to approach warp theory, even if it was not formalized. Or they just got lucky. Or, and this really interest me, maybe ST influenced the real life approach. That would be bizarre. Very Galaxy Questy.

"Yes, we built our White-Alcubierre warp drive based on TNG historical documents we found on Amazon!"