Starfleet uniforms?

[di_mar]

Ok. I'm just going to say it.
I never used to be a major ST fan. (waits for ambush)
But, now, in my later years, I have actually come around. And, frankly, I love it. However, one thing hangs around my brain like an annoying klingon craving for battle.
Uniform.
I've googled it and everything, and these uniforms still confuse me. In DS9, VOY and more we witness admirals in the ol' TNG uniforms. Why is this?
In Generations, we view the rather striking Data in a VOY-like uniform.
This just confuses me. Can someone explain it to a down-right newbie? Why do characters wear different uniforms? Why can't they just be in one big uniform. Like a happy family?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Because even real militaries have several uniforms. When my dad was in the USAF he usually wore a tan uniform with short sleeves and no tie to work. Sometimes if doing more "grunt" work green fatigues. For more formal occasions a blue dress uniform with a jacket and tie.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

But in ST it doesn't seem the same case. Admirals have their own style (until Janeway in Nemesis), but USS Enterprise in Generations wear series uniform, and then start changing to early DS9/VOY uniforms. Probably to follow the new design. And then in FC they have new ones. VOY - obviously still wears the same, but DS9 changes to new ones too. And in DS9 you can see people wearing all those 3 different uniforms at the same time. Not the DS9 crew, but visitors etc.

To me seems like different duty stations wear one of these 3 designs for everyday work. I find it weird, but well.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Budget's got a lot to do with it. TNG/DS9/VOY recycled whatever uniforms they had at hand, especially for background people and visitors (like admirals). In TNG season 3 and beyond, background people usually wore slightly-modified season 1+2 jumpsuits instead of the $3000 two-piece uniforms of the main characters. Old ships from the past, or flashback scenes almost always used leftover Wrath of Khan-style gear.

New uniforms were made for Generations but went unused (IIRC action figures were sold in these unseen outfits), and a combo of TNG and early DS9 ones were used instead. Supposedly the uniform Riker wears at the very end is Sisko's one.

The big-budget Trek films (TMP and STXI) have the biggest variety of uniforms, simply because they can afford them.

Props and sets are recycled endlessly throughout Trek, too.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

So again we have an example that "background limitations" have influence on what we see on the screen, and we try to find a logical on-screen explanation to that

At least books have no limitations, except for our own imagination

 

[GalaxyClass1701]

VOY and DS9 appear to be a more casual uniform. In ROTC we had the full uni an a less dressy light jacket uni.

 

[JoeFromEarth]

On DS9, whenever the cast dressed in the "dress uniform," it was the TNG-style with the black on the top and the red/blue/yellow on the chest. In the beginning of "Generations" the cast is wearing their series uniform (save the combadge), but by the end of the movie they're wearing the new DS9/VOY uniforms - which resembles the phase-in period the military (at least the US military) has when it changes uniform.

 

[The Wormhole]

Ok. I'm just going to say it.
I never used to be a major ST fan. (waits for ambush)
But, now, in my later years, I have actually come around. And, frankly, I love it. However, one thing hangs around my brain like an annoying klingon craving for battle.
Uniform.
I've googled it and everything, and these uniforms still confuse me. In DS9, VOY and more we witness admirals in the ol' TNG uniforms. Why is this?
In Generations, we view the rather striking Data in a VOY-like uniform.
This just confuses me. Can someone explain it to a down-right newbie? Why do characters wear different uniforms? Why can't they just be in one big uniform. Like a happy family?

But we do essentially see one uniform style being used at any given time. The only exception is the period between TNG season 6 and DS9 season 5. The original intention was that personnel serving on starships wear different uniforms than personnel on starbases, and was adhered to somewhat faithfully until we saw the DS9 style uniforms on the Enterprise D, Voyager, and the USS Equinox.

In regards to the Admirals, the ones on DS9 and Voyager wore the TNG style uniforms because that continued to be the Admiral's uniforms until DS9 season 6 when a variation of the gray shouldered uniform was made for Admirals.

Admirals have their own style (until Janeway in Nemesis),

Huh? In Nemesis Janeway wore the exact same style of uniform as Admiral Dougherty in Insurrection, Admiral Ross and other Admirals seen in seasons 6 and 7 of DS9, and Admiral Paris and other Admirals seen in seasons 6 and 7 of Voyager.

 

[Finn]

Ok. I'm just going to say it.
I never used to be a major ST fan. (waits for ambush)
But, now, in my later years, I have actually come around. And, frankly, I love it. However, one thing hangs around my brain like an annoying klingon craving for battle.
Uniform.
I've googled it and everything, and these uniforms still confuse me. In DS9, VOY and more we witness admirals in the ol' TNG uniforms. Why is this?
In Generations, we view the rather striking Data in a VOY-like uniform.
This just confuses me. Can someone explain it to a down-right newbie? Why do characters wear different uniforms? Why can't they just be in one big uniform. Like a happy family?

I'm an Air force Brat. Dad always had a whole bunch of uniforms. Nobody wore the exactly same kind of uniform whenever I visited the base. There were usually two or three types the airmen were wearing.

You are overthinking this.

 

[The Wormhole]

Indeed, I'll pitch in and echo the statements that real life militaries use different types of uniforms. Just watch any random episode of SG-1 and you'll notice quite a bit of different uniforms being worn in the same scene.

 

[di_mar]

I get most of it now. I can see why DS9 changed to the grey-ish uniforms later on; maybe because they wanted to distinguish it between VOY and itself.
I'm not overthinking it, I'm just doing what a usual trekkie does. Why should I not learn about the uniforms?
I see what you are saying about Janeway. I understood the admirals' uniforms - the typical gold lining shortly turned into outfits similar to that of the late grey-shouldered uniforms.
Resources were a big point too. I didn't know the uniforms costed that much?!

This is why I believed that DS9 should not have ran the same time as VOY. Resources must have made the set(s) look samey. I'm glad DS9 got new uniforms.

 

[Gul Re'jal]

Huh? In Nemesis Janeway wore the exact same style of uniform as Admiral Dougherty in Insurrection, Admiral Ross and other Admirals seen in seasons 6 and 7 of DS9, and Admiral Paris and other Admirals seen in seasons 6 and 7 of Voyager.

You are absolutely right. For some reason she stuck in my mind, but of course she was not the first one.

 

[The Wormhole]

I can see why DS9 changed to the grey-ish uniforms later on; maybe because they wanted to distinguish it between VOY and itself.

Close, but not exactly. DS9 changed the uniforms to stay consistent with the TNG movies. Just like when they changed comm badges in the third season. Also, First Contact depicted Worf and the Defiant crew wearing the gray uniforms, so they were pretty much required to change the uniforms on DS9.

However, it was to give the two shows their own distinctive look that Voyager never changed to those uniforms. Yes, I know, they were lost, but they could still have gotten the new uniforms, like when they made contact with Starfleet, it couldn't have been too much for Starfleet to transmit the replicator patterns of the new uniforms, could it?

Also, my understanding was that it was not the original intent to use the DS9 uniforms on Voyager, but rather the new uniforms that were designed for Generations. But when those were abandoned, Voyager was pretty much stuck with the DS9 ones.

 

[Trekwatcher]

The poster who chalked a lot of it up to budgetary reasons got it right. They used what they had until they needed to change due to wear and tear. The uniforms got better as the budgets got better. If you have ever seen or held a real TNG/DS9/VOY uniform up close they are not very tough and would rip and fray when subjected to daily use. Also, they were, for the most part, washed daily, which also shortened thier lifespans. The ENT uniforms, of note, were made of much heavier material (and were of natural fibers) and will likely hold up much better over time.

 

[Arpy]

This is slightly off-topic but what really annoyed me about the GEN uniforms is that the material, cut, and design all looked horrible on the big screen. They worked on television but on the big-screen, the magic was gone and it pulled me out of the story...it looked like they lost their regular costumes and had to buy cheap replacements from a Trekkie at a convention. This goes for sets, makeup, and ship models too.

Sorry for bitching.

 

[The Wormhole]

Pretty much eevrything for TNG was designed for the television screen and didn't hold up on the theatre screen. This was primarily the reason why all the Enterprise D's sets were so dark in Generations.

 

[Arpy]

^ Yeah, I was aware of that.

Here's my question: if they went to all the trouble of rebuilding the E-D's bridge from scratch (which they did) and a CG replica of the E-D (seen when the ship did some fancy flying as it went to warp), why not beef both up for the big screen? Sharpen the lines, smooth the planes, add a coat of shine and brighten the lights? Looking at the model, in some scenes it looked great (darkly silhouetted by the yellow sun as it approached the Amagosa(sp?) station) but in others it looked really sad (during a rear flyby as, looking as though they used stock footage from TV on the bid screen).

Loving the series so much, it really irks me to think about this stuff again. Apologies if I'm too abrasive.

 

[FormerLurker]

This is slightly off-topic but what really annoyed me about the GEN uniforms is that the material, cut, and design all looked horrible on the big screen. They worked on television but on the big-screen, the magic was gone and it pulled me out of the story...it looked like they lost their regular costumes and had to buy cheap replacements from a Trekkie at a convention.

This was reasons 1-16 why they went with the other design.

 

[Snaploud]

I wouldn't be surprised if Admirals had their choice of any uniform design going back to their admission to starfleet (one of the perks of rank).

 

[Arpy]

This is slightly off-topic but what really annoyed me about the GEN uniforms is that the material, cut, and design all looked horrible on the big screen. They worked on television but on the big-screen, the magic was gone and it pulled me out of the story...it looked like they lost their regular costumes and had to buy cheap replacements from a Trekkie at a convention.

This was reasons 1-16 why they went with the other design.

They're alright but the problem for me wasn't the TNG series uniforms design - just how they looked on the different screen. They should have done some screen tests and remade them with different material. The DS9 series uniforms were even worse given they were mostly black and that material in black looked really poor on screen.

The purplish tunic also looked terrible. And the overall tailoring of the jumpsuits just was poor, so you get Patrick Stewart with that silly belt contraption trying to make the outfit look more formfitting.

I'm glad they redid the uniforms in the next picture...they should have done so off the bat, even if the series uniforms looked fine on the big screen. But I'm not at all happy with what they came up with...gray and black carpet on dim-colored polyester.