Spoilers Starfleet needs to revise its policies on "Augments"

[C.E. Evans]

To me, the biggest problem with the ban on Augments is a general lack of context. Outside of TOS, there really isn't any hard details on just how bad the Eugenics Wars were that it caused Humanity to outright ban genetic augmentation--and keep banning it even after the Federation was formed.

Of course, Star Trek Into Darkness did show what happens when just one Augment got in a really bad mood...

 

[Oddish]

Dang -- even kiddie tantrums are almost more evolved (or, if nothing else, scripted), and the end of that episode is even more syrupy saccharine than any given episode of "The Brady Bunch". If only that question of "Why?" was answered, but if I were to guess, a basic understanding of something may still have some practicality elsewhere, even if it's not instantly or directly related or realized.

The smarmy "win-win" ending doesn't help. In my rewritten version, Harry's reconciliation with his dad still occurs, but counterbalanced by a heavy dose of doom and gloom.

That summarizes the problem pretty well: good points on both sides.

Once genetic enhancement is legitimized, a very nasty genie will leave the bottle...

 

[Lord Garth]

Starfleet should revise its position on Augments, but it should be done in one of the 24th/25th Century shows. They can't fully revise their position in SNW since it's still an issue in DS9 and PRO. And they shouldn't revise their position in DSC because it would be depressing to think they let it be an issue for over 1,000 years.

 

[Kor]

And there were probably plenty of worlds that didn't take issue with genetic engineering, and use it all the time. Do they have to give up that cultural practice to join the Federation and/or have members of their species become eligible to sign up for Starfleet?

Kor

 

[Nyotarules]

To me, the biggest problem with the ban on Augments is a general lack of context. Outside of TOS, there really isn't any hard details on just how bad the Eugenics Wars were that it caused Humanity to outright ban genetic augmentation--and keep banning it even after the Federation was formed.

Of course, Star Trek Into Darkness did show what happens when just one Augment got in a really bad mood...

And shows what happens when one crazy human Admiral runs Starfleet but humans are still allowed to join. The ban on Augments or Illyrians as an allegory for discrimination caused by fear. There should be no ban on DSC, the UFP president should be an Augment. There should an Augments planet who are UFP members confronting a prejudiced Discovery crew. Kill this 1960s silly trope to genetics

 

[Deks]

I have a hankering suspicion that in Trek, lack of proper regulation was what lead to the Eugenic Wars (and Humans at the time living in an outdated socio-economic system that could easily create psychopaths from non-genetically enhanced humans at any given moment).

Environment shapes behavior.
Back then, genetic engineering was predominantly used as a tool to fight wars, etc. That never ends wells.

I don't see the issue however in the Federation revising its policies on things it has an outright ban on.

For example, we know genetic modification was used on VOY (2377/2378) to fix a congenital issue in utero for Torres child (curvature of the spine).

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing UFP openly stating that using genetic modifications to remove a birth defect for example which would impair a childs regular developments and intelligence and maybe even use genetic modification to extend lifespans... or at least start using stem-cells and regenerative therapies to do the same for the existing populations.

After a while, UFP will have to move forward still on further relaxing the ban on genetic modification until its completely abolished... which might eventually happen in the late 25th or early/mid 26th century.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It's really no different from any group with power/tech/money/resources, etc, having the ability to use their advantages for good or evil, with the possibility of unforeseen consequences, "them" struggling to catch up to "us" so that we can all have an even shot at the things we want/need/ought to have.

The same ultimate problem (abuse of power) invariably calls for the same solution in all its forms; you can try and find the answer wherever you think it lies, I can seek it where I believe it lies. And time will tell who's right, if any of us are.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

they're both decisions based on fear.

Perhaps.

But some fear is understandable. How can the Federation afford to risk another Khan?

And in that DS9 ep, Worf had a perfectly valid point. If genetic enhancement is allowed...it runs the risk of becoming mandatory.

Gattaca, for example. In it, genetic engineering is so widespread that normal humans are left out of pretty much everything. Mundanes have no rights to speak of, and no chance at making anything of their lives. Why should the Federation allow THAT?

 

[Nyotarules]

Perhaps.

But some fear is understandable. How can the Federation afford to risk another Khan?

And in that DS9 ep, Worf had a perfectly valid point. If genetic enhancement is allowed...it runs the risk of becoming mandatory.

Gattaca, for example. In it, genetic engineering is so widespread that normal humans are left out of pretty much everything. Mundanes have no rights to speak of, and no chance at making anything of their lives. Why should the Federation allow THAT?

So in the fictional UFP universe, to prevent possible discrimination against one group, lets treat another group like shit?. Very enlightening.

 

[UssGlenn]

So in the fictional UFP universe, to prevent possible discrimination against one group, lets treat another group like shit?. Very enlightening.

We know very little about how augments are treated if their augmention was successful. The Jack Pack were institutionalized because of the side effects, which prevented their functioning in normal society. Sarina left when her condition was fixed. The only restriction we know of are against joining Starfleet, and practicing medicine (which I assume is a bulwark against augmented doctors creating more augments).

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

(which I assume is a bulwark against augmented doctors creating more augments).

Why would they be any more likely than non-augmented doctors to make more?

 

[Nyotarules]

We know very little about how augments are treated if their augmention was successful. The Jack Pack were institutionalized because of the side effects, which prevented their functioning in normal society. Sarina left when her condition was fixed. The only restriction we know of are against joining Starfleet, and practicing medicine (which I assume is a bulwark against augmented doctors creating more augments).

Which would still be silly, since the Augments are not designed by other Augments. And the 'you can't sign up to join Starfleet' is Ethnic prejudice 101. Hopefully SNW will shine a light on how the UFP is far from ethical or moral on this score but is acting on a foundation of Human fears.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

And the 'you can't sign up to join Starfleet' is Ethnic prejudice 101.

Do they put it in a medical category? Which would allow for policy change as better understanding/medical care/increased opportunities become available, rather than "because I said they can't" heel digging in.

Like, flat feet and bad eyesight don't automatically disqualify you from military service as it once did, because we have cures, treatments, and work-arounds.

Someday, you might be able to join the military despite being blind or paralyzed, etc before signing up.

Maybe the real fear is that augments are, as the healthiest and strongest and smartest, the only ones who should be in Starfleet. Maybe the problem is that it could be argued that there are not enough Augments/augmentation, and they're afraid someone will hit upon this.

 

[Oddish]

So in the fictional UFP universe, to prevent possible discrimination against one group, lets treat another group like ?. Very enlightening.

The admiral Bashir talked to said it best:

"Two hundred years ago we tried to improve the species through DNA resequencing, and what did we get for our trouble? The Eugenics Wars. For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings. A superhuman whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect. The law against genetic engineering provides a firewall against such men and it's my job to keep that firewall intact."

Certainly, individuals should be considered as individuals, because there's going to be beings created outside the Federation who might want to join up. But as both Khan and "Unnatural Selection" reminds us, messing with the genome is dangerous, and should not be taken lightly.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Yeah, unlike other races, Augments have much more input from flawed Human gene editors/inventors of tech that augments people. They tend to be thought of almost as inventions, rather than races/people, because they are being manipulated and micro-altered at the genetic level, to an extent that race groups created through natural, familial and selective breeding couldn't be.

 

[Deks]

Perhaps.

But some fear is understandable. How can the Federation afford to risk another Khan?

And in that DS9 ep, Worf had a perfectly valid point. If genetic enhancement is allowed...it runs the risk of becoming mandatory.

Gattaca, for example. In it, genetic engineering is so widespread that normal humans are left out of pretty much everything. Mundanes have no rights to speak of, and no chance at making anything of their lives. Why should the Federation allow THAT?

Simple solution:
Create an environment where discrimination against others or prohibition to make a life for themselves whether they have genetic augmentations or not are not encouraged (aka, there is nothing to gain by discriminating against them).

For this, you need to get rid of competition... or competitive like environment.
If you get rid of this model and create a society which is mostly cooperative and in which there is nothing to gain to discriminate against others or gain power, then it shouldn't matter to ANYONE whether a person is genetically modified and enhanced or not.

Obviously you don't have to get rid of competition entirely, as it can still be used for fun and to potentially push oneself (if for an individual its a motivational tool - for many, competitive behavior detracts from the ability to improve ourselves and instead many of us thrive in a cooperative environment instead).

Gattaca is set in exactly the same socio-economic system that we basically have today where competitive behavior is encouraged and allows for discrimination of the kind you described to thrive.

I was actually under the impression the Federation ABOLISHED a competitive type system when it comes to contributing to society in favour of a cooperative model (heck, the very premise of the Federation is reliant on the notion of free exchange of resources, knowledge, science and technology for the purpose of cooperation and providing everyone with the needed opportunities to work in positions they wish to work in - its not a 'competition' based system, or at least, it doesn't make sense it would be).

Sure, non augmented individuals in that case may have to work harder at that to keep up with their peers in some situation, but a society like that would need to have safeties in place to ensure that everyone (regardless of their backgrounds) can work at their own pace.

Also, why should genetic engineering be restricted to being done to people in utero?
Modifications like that can be done on children, adults, etc. in Trek... nothing says you can't do the same thing to existing/mature people in real life (heck, people already do that).

So even if a person didn't get any genetic augmentations done, nothing says they couldn't elect to go through the procedure later in life if they wish to do so (with an option to reverse it and return to 'baseline' if they so desire - aka, non-augmented).

 

[Nyotarules]

The admiral Bashir talked to said it best:

"Two hundred years ago we tried to improve the species through DNA resequencing, and what did we get for our trouble? The Eugenics Wars. For every Julian Bashir that can be created, there's a Khan Singh waiting in the wings. A superhuman whose ambition and thirst for power have been enhanced along with his intellect. The law against genetic engineering provides a firewall against such men and it's my job to keep that firewall intact."

Certainly, individuals should be considered as individuals, because there's going to be beings created outside the Federation who might want to join up. But as both Khan and "Unnatural Selection" reminds us, messing with the genome is dangerous, and should not be taken lightly.

The speech was a load of cobblers. Imagine this sentence in Trek on 22nd century ENT, 'for every good German, there's an Adolf waiting in the wings, so it's my duty to keep Germans from joining the UE army or Starfleet.'
Absolute tosh!

 

[at Quark's]

The speech was a load of cobblers. Imagine this sentence in Trek on 22nd century ENT, 'for every good German, there's an Adolf waiting in the wings, so it's my duty to keep Germans from joining the UE army or Starfleet.'
Absolute tosh!

Well, it would explain the very low number of Germans we know of in Starfleet or the Federation as a whole (Not that Germany is special in this regard, most former nations seem underrepresented by members in Starfleet if this is truly supposed to be a united earth organisation.).

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

@Nyotarules Germans weren't created/changed by genetic engineering in nearly the way that Augments were. But what other Human thing can you compare it to? Humans aren't (yet) as designed and genetically altered as Augments would be. Wouldn't it be like (I hate to use this analogy, because people aren't chemicals, but again, what people are like augments?) creating/discovering a brand new chemical element/compound and putting it in all our food/spraying it everywhere, without testing it for toxicity?

And if it makes us take a step back and re-evaluate everything else (in that case, other potentially harmful substances; in Starfleet's case, more rigorous psych evals/training for non-Augments, just in case these propensities or other horrific/troublesome ones crop up naturally); in which case, doesn't everyone benefit/get called to a higher level of standard?

 

[Nyotarules]

@Nyotarules Germans weren't created/changed by genetic engineering in nearly the way that Augments were. But what other Human thing can you compare it to? Humans aren't (yet) as designed and genetically altered as Augments would be. Wouldn't it be like (I hate to use this analogy, because people aren't chemicals, but again, what people are like augments?) creating/discovering a brand new chemical element/compound and putting it in all our food/spraying it everywhere, without testing it for toxicity?

And if it makes us take a step back and re-evaluate everything else (in that case, other potentially harmful substances; in Starfleet's case, more rigorous psych evals/training for non-Augments, just in case these propensities or other horrific/troublesome ones crop up naturally); in which case, doesn't everyone benefit/get called to a higher level of standard?

In this fictional universe, a child who is not responsible for its DNA or augmentation would be denied a career in Starfleet because of biology or fear they might become a genocidal maniac. Repeat the above statement without ROFLOL

Data who is stronger and smarter than a human, vulcan or klingon is allowed to join and remain in Starfleet, despite having a genocidal brother Lore.
Why not ban all androids from being created, just in case they turn into a potential Lore?
(Hello season 1 Picard!)
The more one exams the in universe argument, the more stupid it looks. The whole thing is based on 1950s, 60s scifi view of genetics which was completely flawed.