Starfleet Marine Corps

[T'Girl]

In addition to any energy shields protecting a ground vehicle, having at least some "armor" would make sense. The Federation's shields are neither perfect, nor impenetrable. Having a physical barrier against hand weapons, radiation, flying debris, and simply the local environment, again makes sense. The ability to switch off the shields and still enjoy a degree of protection could make the vehicle more stealthy.

A 24th century Marine "tank" might have a main weapon powered not by a power pack, but a on board reactor. And carry sensors more capable than a hand held tricorder.

 

[Sci]

Then you brought it up for no reason ...

I disagree and maintain my original assertion, if the species who formed the Federation wished to include in it's charter guarantees on civil rights, they could.

1. That's not the function of an alliance's charter; it's a silly idea. No alliance would do that, because it would infringe on the sovereignty of its members.

2. That's not part of the charter, canonically. It's part of the Constitution. Alliances don't have constitutions -- let alone constitutions that guarantee civil rights.

That the Federation is a not-sovereign-state that just so happens to possess all of the traits that define sovereign states

The Federation also has a Membership that engaging in separate foreign policy,

"Separate" foreign policy? We don't know this.

The Province of Quebec has representative offices in foreign countries, but that doesn't mean it has a "separate" foreign policy than Canada.

The Federation has all of the traits of a sovereign state, and it is absurd to pretend it is a mere alliance.

 

[Timo]

"Separate" foreign policy? We don't know this.

What do we make of the two somewhat different tacks taken by the UFP at large and by the member culture Vulcan towards the Romulan Star Empire? Is it actually standard for members to hold ancient "foreign policy" grudges, regardless of whether they are external to the UFP like here, or internal like between Andorians and Tellarites? Is that what the business with Bolians and their enemies in "Allegiance" was all about (or is that just proof that Bolians aren't members)?

It might be for these very practices that the UFP considers it a very poor idea to give any of its members actual member-specific armed forces!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Longinus]

Eu had tried to ratify a constitution couple of times. Sure, it didn't happen, but it was considered to be a plausible idea, and will probalby happen one day. This still would not make EU a sovereign state (at least if the constitution was along the lines of those previously proposed.)

 

[T'Girl]

Is that what the business with Bolians and their enemies in "Allegiance" was all about

I weigh in on the "Bolians are Members" side of the debate, but will admit it's not clearly stated. In the case of the Bolians and their enemies, it could have been a relatively minor military matter (like a border dispute), and the Bolians choice to not bring in the rest of the Federation.

Always leave room for your enemy, to become you friend. Not bringing in the vast and powerful alliance, when some saber rattling and a few skirmishes could do the job, would paint the Bolians as statesmen and maybe gamblers too.

 

[The Wormhole]

Again with the Bolians? The next Trek series should damn well state in dialogue that the Bolians are members of the Federation, with a computer graphic saying when they became members, and a flashback scene showing when they signed the papers of membership, just to end this silly argument.

 

[Longinus]

Bolians are one of the most often seen alien races in Starfleet. They obviously are members.

 

[Pavonis]

I don't know about that. The Bolians could be the Canadians to the UFP's Americans. Just because they're everywhere doesn't mean they'd have to be members.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I think that's reaching, just a bit.

 

[Pavonis]

Maybe, but then, how many Bajorans did we see in Starfleet? They definitely weren't Federation members. So why would the Bolians necessarily be?

 

[Longinus]

I remember two Bajorans in Starfleet. There probably was more. I assume the reason for Bajorans in Starfleet was that many Bajorans escaped the occupation to the Federation.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Could be a lot of Bolians like the opportunities Starfleet offers.

 

[T'Girl]

And how many Andorians did we see, in Starfleet? We know that they were Members from day one. I remember a couple of admirals in the movies, and the first officer in Yesteryear.

Other?

 

[Pavonis]

I remember two Bajorans in Starfleet. There probably was more. I assume the reason for Bajorans in Starfleet was that many Bajorans escaped the occupation to the Federation.

I can recall three - Ro Laren, Sito Jaxa, and Tal Celes. I'm certain there were more background extras made up as Bajorans in Starfleet uniforms.

I can only recall one named Bolian in Starfleet - Zim Brott. I know there were other Bolians in Starfleet, too.

This evidence doesn't tell us anything about membership, though. I'd be happy to assume they're Federation members, since that seems to be the intent, but it's not firmly established, so it's sort of straddling canon and fanon.

As for Andorians, the dearth of antennae-waving blueskins in Starfleet uniforms simply tells us that the relationship between Federation membership and participation in Starfleet isn't clearly and directly correlated.

 

[The Wormhole]

22 out of the 40 Bolians seen in all Star Trek were serving in or working for Starfleet. Or posing as a Starfleet cadet. That's a larger percentage than how many Bajorans seen in all Star Trek were involved with Starfleet.

Besides, Tal Celes said that Starfleet Academy was showing favoritism towards Bajorans due to the situation with the Cardassians. She believed it was for this reason alone she graduated the Academy. Of course, then you hae to ask why she even attended the Academy since she was enlisted, and that's another discussion I'd rather not get into.

 

[Pavonis]

I thought someone might show up with some statistics. So, just over half the Bolians depicted were in Starfleet. Is that counting Mott the Barber? Presumably he's a civilian (unless he's a Starfleet officer who doesn't wear the uniform often, like Troi), but attached to Starfleet in some way.

As I've said before, I'm inclined to think that the Bolians are members of the UFP, it's just that service in Starfleet isn't definitive proof. Otherwise we'd have to say that Andorians weren't members, given that so few were seen in the service.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yes, that includes Mott and other Bolian civilians seen working with Starfleet in some capacity.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Did ever saw a MACO who was an alien?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Did ever saw a MACO who was an alien?

Since the MACOS are an Earth based force from the 22nd Century I doubt that's probable.

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Yeah, i forgot about that.