Star Wars: The Clone Wars 1x13 "Jedi Crash" - Discuss

[Mike Farley]

You WERE watching "Star Wars"......right?

You DO know that, don't you?

yes, and it was completely inconsistent with the novels depiction of both hyperspace travel and starship combat tactics.

Well, since filmed (or in this case animated) Star Wars trumps tie-in fiction, the books were wrong.

 

[Cicero]

yeah, like how'd they nearly crash into the sun when the mass-shadow of the stars should've dumped em out before they got that close?

how in the hell did the escape ship go to hyperdrive that deep into a gravity well? (see point cf mass shadows)

The systems which would normally have returned the ship from hyperspace (and prevented it from entering it) were malfunctioning, safety cutouts and all.

 

[captcalhoun]

no, according to the novels, you can't go into hyperspace in a gravity well. if the stellar object is large enough, like a star, planet or large moon, it creates a mass-shadow in hyperspace which prevents ships from entering hyperspace or, if they're IN hyperspace, they crash back out. that's whole point of Interdictor cruisers, they're fitted with gravity-well projectors which create a mass shadow that drags a ship out of hyperspace, or they're deployed to prevent ships from fleeing into hyperspace.

 

[nx1701g]

^ Which is somewhat overriden by Han in A New Hope when he says that they could fly through a star or bounce right into a supernova.

 

[EnsignRicky]

^ Which is somewhat overriden by Han in A New Hope when he says that they could fly through a star or bounce right into a supernova.

I was actually starting to type up that exact argument until I realized that the point of contention is of a ship being capable of making a jump to light speed while still in a planets gravitational pull. (something that was never proven or disproven on screen until now) though at that point, I think the Falcon was far enough away from Tatooine. However, Han's statement does bring into question the ability of a ship to bring another out of hyperspace by creating an artificial gravity well. That's probably why the Interdictor is considered at least second level canon. I'm gonna stick with the malfunctioning ship theory myself.

 

[Rat Boy]

^ Which is somewhat overriden by Han in A New Hope when he says that they could fly through a star or bounce right into a supernova.

Or when the Falcon went into hyperspace within the atmosphere of Byss in the first Dark Empire comic series.

 

[Tulin]

no, according to the novels, you can't.....

"Whoops....we got a live one here Harry!"

*Harry goes back to the file and gets(for what seems the millionth time)the dossier entitled "I Know You LOOOOOOOOOVE The EU But, Sorry Noob, It Is NOT Canon And Never Will Be Canon, No Matter How Much The Propeller Hat Heads Love It, So Get Over It And Stop Embarressing Yourself"*



Sorry but NO MATTER WHAT it says in the novels, once something contradictory appears onscreen, the filmed material is canon and the novels are overwritten.

Beginning with "But in the novels...." IMMEDIATELY invalidates your argument AND makes you appear like a propeller hat wearing EU continuity nerd.


We already got one of those and his name is Lindley.

 

[nx1701g]

^ Yep. Star Wars canon requires a Master's Degree to understand some times. Except all of it always equals with Lucas is God.

 

[EnsignRicky]

The question now is whether or not The Clone Wars is considered canon. I know the Droids and Ewoks cartoons aren't, Im not sure about the first Clone Wars cartoon and Trek TAS has been a point of contention since forever.

 

[nx1701g]

^ They are considered T Canon. They are below George Lucas Canon but above Expanded Universe Canon.

 

[Christopher]

^ Yep. Star Wars canon requires a Master's Degree to understand some times. Except all of it always equals with Lucas is God.

It isn't really any different from any other canon, in that new filmed material is free to ignore anything in the tie-ins. Lucasfilm just confuses the issue by applying all these "canon level" labels and stuff to the tie-ins and trying to force them all into a single mass even when they contradict each other. All you really need to know is that the books and comics try to fit together except when they don't, and that the movies and shows are free to ignore them.

The question now is whether or not The Clone Wars is considered canon. I know the Droids and Ewoks cartoons aren't, Im not sure about the first Clone Wars cartoon and Trek TAS has been a point of contention since forever.

Well, the treatment of a Trek series has no bearing here, because there are totally different people deciding on the definitions. Canon isn't some universal rule. It's just what the creators of new core material in a particular franchise choose to consider binding. So its definition varies from franchise to franchise, and can vary within a single franchise depending on who's in charge of it. (For instance, Roddenberry's "decanonization" of TAS has been increasingly ignored both onscreen and off since his death.)

Basically, the SW canon is whatever George Lucas wants it to be at any given time. That's all the word really means, despite all that gets read into it by fandom. Lucas is treating TCW as canon for now, but if he later decides to do something (like the live-action TV series) that requires disregarding elements of it, he'll do just that. Canon is always a work in progress, and always subject to change in any ongoing franchise.

 

[Lindley]

I haven't been watching this cartoon, so I don't know the specifics of what happened. However, the "gravity wells pull you out of hyperspace" thing isn't contradictory to what Han said in a A New Hope-----recall that his next words were, "and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" Which implies that you wouldn't really pass through the star, you'd get burned up inside it. And one way that could happen is if you get bumped out of hyperspace such that the combination of inertia and gravity make it difficult, or impossible, to pull away from the star.

This was certainly the assumption that Timothy Zahn was writing under in the Thrawn trilogy. However, if you need an excuse to make it possible, you can always come up with one. For instance, here are two right off: (1) Expensive models of hyperdrive are capable of getting further into gravity wells than the cheap ones, or (2) Flying in a gravity well is dangerous, but not impossible; the hyperdrive kicking you out near one is a safety feature than can, on some models, be disabled.

 

[JediKnightButler]

I thought it was a decent episode but it will be tough to consider it thoroughly until they wrap up the storyline next week (nearly every episode seems to be a 2-3 parter anymore- even "Bombad Jedi", "Cloak of Darkness", and "Lair of General Greivous" all had a common thread- Nute Gunray's capture/escape).

Good: Introduction of another Jedi, Secura, previously viewed briefly in Episode III (Order 66), Ashoka has to learn about detachment from Anakin since he's out of commission for nearly the entire episode, and the opening space battle was cool.

Bad: Nothing memorably bad about the episode but nothing particularly interesting or original however. Their contact with the pacifist lemurs did seem entirely too reminiscent of other stories from other series (i.e. "The Nox" from Stargate SG-1, "Errand of Mercy" from Star Trek:TOS). Their attitude towards the Jedi also seemed rather arrogant and presumptuous.

Interesting: Thought the scene where they "slingshot" around the sun reminded me of Star Trek IV- but without the time travel of course. Also, Anakin's breathing through the respirator. It came and went quickly but it was nice nod to the OT and Anakin's eventual fate.

 

[Christopher]

Well, Newsarama continues to be guilty of gross research failure in its Clone Wars coverage. First, its reviewer Steve Fritz claimed that Ahsoka was a Twi'lek like Aayla, rather than a Togruta. Now Fritz is saying that George Takei, who's doing a guest voice next week, is the first and only actor ever to work in both the Star Trek and Star Wars universes. Which is quite untrue. Clive Revill was the voice of the Emperor in TESB and a Q-created Sir Guy of Gisbourne in TNG. Jason Wingreen was the voice of Boba Fett in TESB and Dr. Linke in TOS: "The Empath." Fionnula Flannigan was Data's "mother" and a Vulcan ambassador in ST and a cast member in one of the Ewok movies. Carel Struycken was also in an Ewok movie and was Mr. Homn in TNG. And Felix Silla (best known as Cousin Itt and Twiki) was an uncredited background Talosian in the TOS pilot and a stunt Ewok in ROTJ. Also, Ethan Phillips and Raphael Sbarge have done voices in Star Wars video games, though that probably doesn't count.

It was grossly unprofessional of Fritz and Newsarama to allow these factual errors to go uncorrected -- especially when it's so easy to get the facts by consulting sites like Wookiepedia (and Memory Alpha, which helped with the list of crossover actors). I'd complain, but you have to register to post comments on Newsarama and it's hard to find any way to e-mail them. If anyone here is registered there, I encourage lodging a complaint -- or at least informing Steve Fritz of the URL for Wookieepedia.