Star Wars Saga - what was it all for?

[crookeddy]

So I am having trouble understanding exactly what the prophecy of the balance of the force is about. The force conceived Anakin, for the purpose of having him be the one to bring balance. Apparently the balance involved ending the republic, getting all the Jedi killed, and then "redemption" through killing Palpatine... So what was actually gained? What kind of balance was achieved?

 

[Hound of UIster]

Anakin's job was to end the source of the imbalance, Palpatine. He just took 40 years to accomplish the job. All that other stuff was going to happen anyways because of Palpatine.

 

[Mage]

It never made sense anyway. To have balance, you need two things in equel quantity. Remove one of the two things, and you don't have balance at all. You only have one or the other.

 

[crookeddy]

It never made sense anyway. To have balance, you need two things in equel quantity. Remove one of the two things, and you don't have balance at all. You only have one or the other.

Yeah, balance was always the wrong word to use... Lucas never actually bothered to look up the definition.

 

[Set Harth]

It never made sense anyway. To have balance, you need two things in equel quantity. Remove one of the two things, and you don't have balance at all.

Force-users are not the Force. Thus, the balance of the Force is not a balance of Force-users. What doesn't make sense is when people replace "the Force" with "the Force-users" and act like it's still the same concept. The only balance mentioned in the films is a balance between the light and dark sides, not a Force user head count.

Apparently the balance involved ending the republic, getting all the Jedi killed

No. Those are simply things which happened prior to the eventual restoration of balance. They are no more required for balance than any other events, great or small, which occurred prior to 4 ABY.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think the imbalance in the Force began before the Old Republic. If we go by the Dawn of the Jedi series, the early Je'daii sought to find balance between the light and the dark, for too much of one side was considered dangerous, I think.

 

[FreezeC77]

Lucas couldn't figure out the balance of the force thing and neither could the dozens of writers who wrote for the expanded universe and then whoever ultimately was in charge of it.

During the Yuuzhan Vong war it finally looked like the 'balance of the force' was going to be attained by Jacen Solo since he expanded the normal Jedi powers, brought back old techniques, and even had some force lightning.

Then the writers were like "OH NOEZ. We have to just re-do the fallen to the darkside thing and can't actually have a real answer to the balance of the force." so of course he turns evil in the next big novel series.

I personally preferred the direction they were going with the force during the Yuuzhan Vong war. The force being neutral and basically a power/weapon and the actions of those using it are what determines if something is 'light/dark'.

 

[Hound of UIster]

I think the imbalance in the Force began before the Old Republic. If we go by the Dawn of the Jedi series, the early Je'daii sought to find balance between the light and the dark, for too much of one side was considered dangerous, I think.

There is no "light" side of the Force. It's a EU construct for what is generally called the Force. The Dark Side is by itself an imbalance and Palpatine was its avatar and agent.

 

[Set Harth]

Lucas couldn't figure out the balance of the force thing

Lucas figured out the balance of the Force just fine, but others sometimes screw it up.

During the Yuuzhan Vong war it finally looked like the 'balance of the force' was going to be attained by Jacen Solo since he expanded the normal Jedi powers, brought back old techniques, and even had some force lightning.

Balance was restored to the Force as the result of Palpatine's defeat in ROTJ, and that was before the NJO. What is being described above sounds like yet another kind of notional balance: a "balance" of Force powers, or equivalently a manifestation of Troy Denning's insistence that the light side must be capable of the same Force powers as the dark side. But that is not what the balance of the Force refers to.

The force being neutral and basically a power/weapon and the actions of those using it are what determines if something is 'light/dark'.

According to Lucas there are such things as dark side powers, meaning that they are dark side in nature regardless of how they are used. For example, from Lucas' POV the appearance of lightning identifies a darksider regardless of the context of its use. Lightning would not identify darksiders in this fashion if it were available to either side. This results from the fact that Lucas conceives of the Force as a two-sided energy field with a light side and a dark side. Lightning is considered a dark side power because use of the dark side of the Force is required to conjure it in the first place, not because it's a nasty thing to do to someone.

There is no "light" side of the Force.

That is incorrect. According to Lucas, his characters, and various EU sources, there is a light side of the Force. It was referred to as the good side in TESB, which called the light and dark sides the "good side" and the "bad side" respectively. The Force is two-sided.

The Dark Side is by itself an imbalance

As has been made explicit in EU, the balance is between the light and dark sides, so it makes no sense to say that the dark side is an imbalance. The Force in balance contains both light and dark sides, as was reiterated by the Father in the Mortis arc of TCW. A good example of imbalance would be the revisionist scenario where the Force has no dark side. All of one thing and none of the other can hardly be called balance. In fact, it's as unbalanced as you can get.

 

[SiddFinch1]

Well Anakin did bring balance. When they found him there were thousands of Jedi and two sith. At the end there were two Jedi and two sith. The real.question is why did the jedi think balance was a good thing.....if my football team is up 35-0 at the half I don't want balance...if I am a Jedidiah who thinks the sith are long gone why would seek balance with evil? That impliesnme getting weaker and my evil enemy getting stronger

 

[Set Harth]

Well Anakin did bring balance. When they found him there were thousands of Jedi and two sith. At the end there were two Jedi and two sith.

Balance of the Force, not balance of the users of the Force. The "end" of the film saga ( at least until Ep. VII comes out ) is the end of ROTJ. That, not ROTS, is the point when the Force is supposed to be balanced. At that point there are zero Sith and, not counting Force ghosts, there is one Jedi. There are not equal amounts of Jedi and Sith. The Jedi would not look forward hopefully to the restoration of balance if it meant equal numbers of Jedi and Sith. On the contrary, ROTS tells us that it means the destruction of the Sith.

 

[crookeddy]

Well Anakin did bring balance. When they found him there were thousands of Jedi and two sith. At the end there were two Jedi and two sith.

Balance of the Force, not balance of the users of the Force. The "end" of the film saga ( at least until Ep. VII comes out ) is the end of ROTJ. That, not ROTS, is the point when the Force is supposed to be balanced. At that point there are zero Sith and, not counting Force ghosts, there is one Jedi. There are not equal amounts of Jedi and Sith. The Jedi would not look forward hopefully to the restoration of balance if it meant equal numbers of Jedi and Sith. On the contrary, ROTS tells us that it means the destruction of the Sith.

And the dark side is seen as a corruption of the force as mentioned by Yoda. Which is why the word balance is very awkward here.

 

[Set Harth]

Yoda never said any such thing.

 

[MacLeod]

Perhaps as others have said Lucas didn't exactly make it clear what he meant by 'balance'.

But at the start it certainly seems as if the Jedi should of been of the view "let the good times rule." the Sith were believed to be extict. Though perhaps the Jedi were somewhat aware of growing darkness.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Is it possible that even Jedi Masters might not interpret correctly what "balance of the force" is...or that they interpreted someone's concept as "balance" when it could have meant something else?

 

[The Doctor]

As in all things Star Wars, I prefer Timothy Zahn's interpretation of The Force. Namely, that active use of the Force for offensive actions is inherently blinding to the true power of knowledge and inspiration. It was only when Luke stopped using his powers willy-nilly that he was truly able to feel and see the powerful visions that the Force provided. Moreover, continued use of these powers deny the Force user any insight at all, twisting their perceptions and leading them down a path of evil.

It's all there in the OT, for anyone who cares to look:

"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence. Never for attack."

 

[Set Harth]

Perhaps as others have said Lucas didn't exactly make it clear what he meant by 'balance'.

It was not stated outright in the films that the balance was between the sides of the Force, but ROTS pretty clearly links balance with the destruction of the Sith. Even before that, TPM made it clear that balance was a desired outcome on the part of the Jedi, which it would not have been if it meant a Jedi-Sith stalemate. For those thinking ahead ( or back, depending on your point of view ) in 1999, it was fairly obvious that the prophecy referred to the end of ROTJ. The prophecy was about Anakin's future actions and thus we only had to recall what Anakin did in the end.

Is it possible that even Jedi Masters might not interpret correctly what "balance of the force" is...or that they interpreted someone's concept as "balance" when it could have meant something else?

Anything is possible, but the Jedi seem to serve as mouthpieces/exposition for Lucas' interpretation of balance.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think the imbalance in the Force began before the Old Republic. If we go by the Dawn of the Jedi series, the early Je'daii sought to find balance between the light and the dark, for too much of one side was considered dangerous, I think.

There is no "light" side of the Force.

Of course there is.

It's a EU construct for what is generally called the Force.

In other words, the light side of the Force. But you can call it the "non-dark" side if you want.

The Dark Side is by itself an imbalance and Palpatine was its avatar and agent.

Now that sounds like an EU construct.

 

[Captain Nebula]

There is no "light" side of the Force. It's a EU construct for what is generally called the Force. The Dark Side is by itself an imbalance and Palpatine was its avatar and agent.

Luke called it 'the good side'.

There is a 'Living Force' -even Qui-Gon mentioned it. In addition, in the novels for the movies, there is a 'Unifying Force'. Then I would assume that the 'Dark Side' is a 'Corrupting' or 'Destructive Force' in comparison to the other two. It would be similar to a life cycle of Growth, Equilibrium, and Entropy.

 

[Dream]

Obviously it was all about selling toys.