Star Wars Past EU Officially Decanonized by Lucasfilm

[suarezguy]

^It doesn't effect my enjoyment of the existing works, it just seems to go against the point of something being a series, that a new installment be in line with and build upon what the previous sequels already did (especially since in SW a lot off writers were already able to do so).

More to the point, as has already been stated, they're not "decanonising" anything because it was never canon to begin with. Hell, the EU could never keep things straight anyway, which is why there's that anal and ridiculously ungainly multi-tiered canonicity scale.

I believe it used to be all canon, although with the films indeed being more so, aside from Infinities and possibly the Marvel comics. I think that for so long especially the novels, comics and games but also even the new films were so consistent with each other, the contradictions being few and minor (yeah Ahsoka Tano was a big one), was a big accomplishment that makes disregarding a lot of the existing work real annoying.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I believe it used to be all canon, although with the films indeed being more so

Is that like being a little bit pregnant?

 

[Owain Taggart]

I think it's a good thing they did this. It would have been stupid if they hadn't. Although part of me really wished they would have taken the best parts of the EU to adapt into the new trilogy. But by doing this, they're taking a firm stance that it won't happen and basically telling fans not to get their hopes up. That's sending a clear message that it will be all original going forward.

Only hope now is that it will be better than the Prequels...

 

[Set Harth]

the contradictions being few and minor (yeah Ahsoka Tano was a big one)

That's not what "contradiction" means.

 

[Reverend]

I believe it used to be all canon, although with the films indeed being more so

Now see, this is a very good example of why they're doing this. Canon is a binary state; something either is canon, or it is not, there's not supposed to be any shades of grey. It's what the word itself means: "rule".

A lot of genre fans in general seem to be under the impression that in order for something to be canon, it need only be consistent with the lore, not directly contradict anything major and be officially licensed.

In this context canon actually means that the events, characters and concepts within 'happened' and (baring accidental oversights) all other sources should treat them as such. Anything else is by definition apocryphal.

 

[suarezguy]

I believe it used to be all canon, although with the films indeed being more so

Now see, this is a very good example of why they're doing this. Canon is a binary state; something either is canon, or it is not, there's not supposed to be any shades of grey. It's what the word itself means: "rule".

In this context canon actually means that the events, characters and concepts within 'happened' and (baring accidental oversights) all other sources should treat them as such. Anything else is by definition apocryphal.

But, though Lucas allowed himself the freedom to contradict the EU with his new films, he rarely did (probably only as much as he contradicted the OT, suggesting that a full binary distinction is impossible) and the other writers and artists were supposed to and were able to treat the other EU events as having happened.

 

[Reverend]

A story being consistent with canon and other non-canon works is not the same thing as as story being canon itself. In this instance canon was whatever Lucas said it was and he said only the films & TCW were canon. If he chose to use something from the EU he liked to suit his purposes, then that was his prerogative.

Pretty much what's now happening with Disney, only now Disney are saying anything new *will* be canon and this the films and TV show(s) will henceforth be beholden to the novels, comics and games it licences.

 

[Mr Light]

Clone Wars mostly respected the EU but occasionally threw it out the window;

the Mandalorians are pacifists who live in weird cube-shaped buildings? Darth Maul is from Dathomir? Quinlan Vos apparently was not as he was in the comics (I didn't read those yet). The Nightsisters are not actual Force users but life-sucking vampires? Evan Piell dies at the Citadel and not in "Coruscant Nights"?

 

[C.E. Evans]

Quinlan Vos apparently was not as he was in the comics (I didn't read those yet).

I think they got Vos pretty much spot on, even including his special Force powers and irreverent personality/odd couple relationship with Kenobi.

 

[Mr Light]

I thought he turned to the Dark Side? This guy was like a goofy surfer as I recall.

 

[Reverend]

Clone Wars mostly respected the EU but occasionally threw it out the window;

the Mandalorians are pacifists who live in weird cube-shaped buildings? Darth Maul is from Dathomir? Quinlan Vos apparently was not as he was in the comics (I didn't read those yet). The Nightsisters are not actual Force users but life-sucking vampires? Evan Piell dies at the Citadel and not in "Coruscant Nights"?

Yeah, like I've been saying the policy has always been that the EU is there to be cherry picked, but that doesn't make it canon. IIRC it's only because Katie Lucas was such a fan of the comics that she went to the trouble of incorporating Ventress' backstory from the EU into the version depicted in TCW.

That's a pretty rare case though, usually it's just Lucas liking the design of something like the Outrider from SotE or Aayla Secura from the comics and inserting them as cameos. Despite what some fans think, those appearances do not in and of themselves retroactively canonise the source material.

As for the Nightsisters, I think they're a concept that goes way back to the second Ewok movie. Or at least that's when the idea of magic users in the Star Wars Universe was first put on screen. Still, the existence of Asajj proves that there are force using Nightsisters, it's just that Talzin isn't one of them.
I honestly don't know if the author of 'The Courtship of Princess Leia' came up with the idea of Dathomiri witches on their own, or if it was influenced by something from the Ranch's archives. Regardless, I gather that Lucas has said he'd always intended both Asajj & Maul to be from Dathomir.

 

[Set Harth]

Still, the existence of Asajj proves that there are force using Nightsisters, it's just that Talzin isn't one of them.

I think it's somewhat apparent in the Talzin episodes, the Bardotta arc with Mace and Jar Jar in particular, that Talzin is in fact literally using the Force, just not in the sense that we mean when we say the same of the Jedi or the Sith. She's not calling the Force up from within herself through her own innate Force-strength ( or midichlorian count ), but she does appear to be manipulating raw Force that seems to have been stolen or siphoned from others.

Regardless, I gather that Lucas has said he'd always intended both Asajj & Maul to be from Dathomir.

Once a bullshitter, always a bullshitter, I guess.

 

[Ubik]

It seems to me that even the word "canon" in the context of fictional universes makes no sense. How do we explain logically that some of these events that never happened happened, while some of these events that never happened never happened? Did the events that never happened that actually happened happen in a more truthful universe that never existed than the events that never happened that never actually happened? I feel like I'm in the various different levels of half-life in Philip K. Dick's Ubik (or, for a more recent parallel, in the various levels of reality in Inception.)

The ancient Greeks had no problem with any of this. In the very same year, they would produce plays about the very same mythological character (say, Oedipus, or Agammemnon), and the plays would contradict each other. Aeschylus's plays contradict Sophocles's plays, which contradict Euripides's plays, all of which play fast and loose with the earlier Homer epics, and all of which tell very similar stories, with significant differences, about the same cast of characters. Do these contradictions bother them? No. There are now, like, 17 different versions of the narratives surrounding most of these mythological characters, and that's fine - they're just variations on a theme, like various covers of the same song. One of the songs, or covers, is not in any way more "real" than the others, because they're ALL fiction.

So, I feel that the very notion of there being a canon of fictional works separated from a non-canon of fictional works merely stems from people's insecurities regarding the fictional nature of these stories - for some reason, modern audiences don't want to be reminded that this is fiction, and contradictions within the stories represent a significant reminder. I, for one, see no reason why we should be uncomfortable with always remembering that this stuff is fiction.

 

[suarezguy]

Of course it's fiction but when a set of works follow each other, let alone when many have, I think they become a series rather than just "variations on a theme" and I'm disappointed when people want to abandon it, to say it is just a concept rather than a set of fictional events. I tend to find more complex fictional worlds more interesting than one-offs.

 

[Mudd]

When I pay to see a movie I'd like the creators to put all the best stuff they can come up with into it. Holding back good ideas because they'd interfere with a sequel, or particularly declining to do something because it would contradict some ancillary novel or bit of marketing tie-in like a comic is a non-starter and a cheat.

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

My interest in new Star Wars products has been whittled down to "is it within the time-frame of the Original Trilogy and/or does it not suck too much?". After the Prequels, I just don't care what they do with the franchise anymore.

That being said, there are some things I'd certainly be cherry-picking for reintroduction to canon, if I was on the "what's cool to keep" committee at Disney. Here's a few off the top of my head...

Thrawn
Joruus C'Baoth
the Noghri
Mara Jade
Talon Karrde
Spaarti Cloning Process
World Devastators
Mad Clones of the Emperor
Vader's Secret Apprentice
Boba Fett Escapes the Sarlacc
Corporate Sector Authority
Gallandro
Centerpoint Station
the Ssi-ruuk
Prince Xizor
Guri
Kyle Katarn

Honestly, I'd simply designate the general idea/basic concept of the various people, places and things (not necessarily their interrelationships or plot lines) that were introuced in The Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire, Truce at Bakura, Shadows of the Empire, The Force Unleashed, The Han Solo Adventures, and The Lando Calrissian Adventures, and the Dark Forces, X-wing & TIE Fighter games as being worthy of serious consideration for reintegration. These were the things that felt the most Star Warsie to me as I grew up and I still enjoy them today. Everything else was either meh or ugh.

I'm sure everyone has their own "head canon", and you can't get everyone to agree, but don't toss it ALL out. That's just stupid. You have 30+ years of material to choose from that was built up by hundreds of writers and artists who (mostly) cared about the source material. Why would you waste all of that?

They needn't bother with The New Jedi Order, though. Or really anything set past that. It's all downhill after Star by Star.

 

[I am not Spock]

They've never been beholden to the EU.

The prequels, when they came out, contradicted a lot of EU assumptions about the Clone Wars, etc.

Anyway, JJ isn't going to come to your house, and confiscate your Holiday Special DVD , your videogames, and your novels. Nor is he going to steal all your Star Trek DVDs of the prime universe shows.

Really, all of this stuff is fictional , anyway. Canon is such an overrated concept

 

[Ithekro]

This is marginally outdated information, though as time goes on they have reintroduced older EU concepts into the show. Rebels has added stuff from the old Kenner toy line into the show as well as material from the old Droids cartoon. Not characters but background materials and things (ships and the like). Things like the old Imperial Transport are now canon and are getting a new toy. The A-wings and B-wings are being put into Rebels roughly 4 years before the battle of Yavin. Imperial Inquisators (from West End Games RPG) are now canon due to Rebels. Things like that. Plus they could shift from Rebels and just to any point in time they want come 2016 after The Force Awakens comes out and Rebel's second season ends.

Other games and novels have confirmed the existance of other things like the old TIE Defender and Victory-class Star Destroyer as being "canon". We've yet to see them on screen and while the Defender is highly unlikely on Rebels, the Victory could show up someday if they decde they want a funky looking Star Destroyer that isn't the Imperial and isn't the old Clone Wars era Venator. They might even make it that one from Droids that the EU gave the name of Gladiator-class.

Other things like Boba Fett surviving are said to have happened under Disney's policy, though they've not reintroduced how. The Anthology movies allow them to explore some of what was the old EU and put their own spin on it on the big screen, much like Rebels givens them lots of episodes to put concepts in the small screen. Rogue One being about the theft of the Death Star plans is one example of making a new canon where many stories had already been.

 

[Reverend]

RE: Boba Fett. I'm pretty sure Lucas himself said he considered shooting a scene for the Special Edition that showed Boba getting out of the Pit of Carkoon, but didn't have a good place to put it (post-credits would have been the only logical place, but that's not really Star Wars's style.) So the idea has been rattling around for a while and not just at Disney.

Also, I really wouldn't read too much into EU materials being reclaimed. It's no different than when the Outrider showed up in ANH:SE or Ventress was developed from an abandoned Darth Maul concept. Most of the time it's just the designs they're using and they're free to make up any new story or background material to go with those designs.

 

[JoeZhang]

This is marginally outdated information

Not really - as was stated at the start - that doesn't mean they might not lift stuff from there