That hurt my brain to read.
Star Wars I-III, Gotham, and DSC: a study in prequels (and how DSC isn’t a TOS prequel?)
- Thread starter Groppler Zorn
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I'm curious on how it changes the way Spock is viewed.
Which authors intent? Roddeneberry? Sturgeon? Fontana? Or one of the other myriad writers who have contributed to Spock's character over the decades?
He is no longer "Spock", he is Michael Burnham's little brother (though I'm still not sure she doesn't end up getting completely erased from the timeline). She nearly does everything he did in his career in the first season.
Fontana was there from the beginning. If I'm going to go with author intent (like everyone keeps throwing out there where "Prime" is concerned), I'm going to go with the person who was there through the formative phases of the character.
It still comes down to how one looks at it, and of course, everyone's mileage will vary.
Yes he is unless they say otherwise or completely 100% change who he is.
So far I see no indication that he isn't the same character from TOS as the show hasn't even aired yet.
All we know so far is that they're going to show how he became the Spock we know in TOS.
He's a lot of things. Kirk's friend. Sarek and Amanda's son. Sybok's brother. Saavik's mentor. An officer in Starfleet. Not sure why one more relationship changes anything.
What exactly has she done that Spock will do? Be a scientist? Be an XO? Her and a lot of people Not seeing why that would matter to someone watching TOS.
Spock has many "parents". I don't think you can place his development on one person's shoulders. The nature of TV production doesn't allow it.
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Now now.
Alien Covenant succeeded wonderfully at its intentions.
I am of course assuming it’s intention was to reveal that yes, yes you can make worse ‘Alien’ movie than Prometheus. It was like cinematic limbo dancing.
That's like saying that Vader in no longer "Vader" but Ahsoka's mentor...
It's just not. Spock is, and always shall be, your Spock.
I need to sit down.
Or, more accurately, I see Vader as the whiny teenager of the prequel trilogy now.
People can change.
I like Promotheus BUT you'll get a kick out of this. I posted this on Facebook at the time when I was telling people what I thought about Alien: Covenant. And I did so by showing how I ranked it in comparison with the other Alien films. Cutting and pasting now. Enjoy!
How I rank the "Alien" movies:
1. Alien
2. Aliens
3. Prometheus
4. Alien 3
5. Alien Resurrection
-- insert gap --
Toenail Fungus
6-7. Alien vs. Predator (both of them)
-- insert gap --
The Food Poisoning I had in 2011 where I violently threw up 40 times, lost 20 pounds, and spent three days in the hospital, dehydrated, with my kidneys shut down, and an I.V. hooked up into my arm. There were times, during that, when I seriously thought I'd die.
-- insert yet another gap --
8. Alien: Covenant
That’s almost the same list as me. Including the exact illness funnily enough, more or less. Except I am more forgiving of AVP and Ressurection. Less so of 3.
I don't remember Nimoy's Spock ever saying "I do not have a foster sister."
Thankfully he also never said "I do not have a half brother" at any time prior to FF, either, or there might have been a problem.
You’re right, obviously
But if we look at the characters in terms of what we knew about them at the time, based on everything we knew about Nimoy Spock in TOS, he didn’t have a half sister. Based on everything we know about Peck Spock, he does have a half sister - and that’s about all we know about Peck Spock.
It’s almost like discussing Nicholson’s Joker versus Ledger’s Joker - if they were supposed to be the same character, which they are, but in different imaginings of the universe - whereas DSC is a different imagining of the Trek universe but it’s the same as TOS and Spock is the same character in both.
Yes, “Captain” Braxton, it’s awful that we post-industrial barbarians keep stealing your things. Let’s get you back to the institute...
You’re right, obviously
But if we look at the characters in terms of what we knew about them at the time, based on everything we knew about Nimoy Spock in TOS, he didn’t have a half sister. Based on everything we know about Peck Spock, he does have a half sister - and that’s about all we know about Peck Spock.
Sure -- but that's par for the course for TV characters. Things get added to the lives of characters as writers come across plot reasons to do so. As long as it doesn't directly contradict something else we were told about the character, it's fine.
I was fine with the "sudden" existence of Sybok in a movie made more than 20 years after TOS, because Spock never said anything in TOS that directly contradicted the possibility of him having a half-brother (or a foster sister, for that matter).
There is no reason that DSC needs to necessarily be a re-imagining of Star Trek. The story and characters could fit in nicely with TOS. As I said, it's normal TV for a writer to suddenly endow a character with a previously-unknown-to-us major detail of their personal lives simply for the sake of plot, such as "didn't I ever tell you my father is the Federation Ambassador from Vulcan?"
That’s true. To be fair Spock has form for not telling anyone details of his life and family etc., as you say.
Personally I would have preferred Michael to be related to some other Vulcan, but if they handle how they deal with Michael, Sarek, Spock (and hopefully Sybok) well in DSC it could make for some compelling drama - and add emotional depth to later episodes (as has already happened in Lethe).
I’d love to see an argument between Sarek and Sybok in DSC where it’s shown that Sarek basically drove all three of his children away... and if they can work it so that Sarek’s Trans galactic mind meld with Michael left him more susceptible to developing his condition in TNG, even better.
If it was someone who worked on TOS who added this kind of detail, it would be different, at least for me (though I'm still not sure it would "work" for me). Doing it twenty-five or fifty years after the fact? Just doesn't do it for me. It feels like a desperate grab to get people interested that otherwise wouldn't be.
The new Spock, played by Peck, is one of many. It may well be a disservice to the actor because he is supposed to evolve into Nimoy "Spock", and will be held to a standard by many he will never be able to meet. Zach Quinto playing Spock was rough, and he didn't have the weight of having to evolve into Nimoy "Spock". He and the writers were in a position to take the character in whatever direction they chose.
YMMV.
The shadow of it is even in the original series with Spock's ObiWan moment in the Immunity Syndrome.
Whoever invented it, it's a particularly stupid concept. How two individuals who are supposedly touch telepaths can communicate in real time at light years distant with no handwavey technological explanation is lost on me. Vulcans have apparently naturally evolved the ability to break the laws of physics in a major way.
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