STAR WARS: How could Sidious be more powerful than Yoda?

[ReadyAndWilling]

so i pondered this earlier at work. Sidious is only 50-60 years old while Yoda is 900 years old. how could Sidious be more powerful than Yoda? was it simply because the dark side allows a person to become much more powerful, or access this power at a much faster rate? it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Seriously...how many separate different Star Wars topics do you need?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And do we have any idea how old Palpatine is?

As far as his power level, I thought it was likely that the Dark Side gives access to a greater level of raw power (which is probably why it's so seductive) than does the Light Side.

 

[Hound of UIster]

so i pondered this earlier at work. Sidious is only 50-60 years old while Yoda is 900 years old. how could Sidious be more powerful than Yoda? was it simply because the dark side allows a person to become much more powerful, or access this power at a much faster rate? it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

1) Sidious was meant to be the penultimate incarnation of the Sith. If not for Anakin he would have become immortal and eternal.

2) The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The dark side can give you a temporary advantage of ruthlessness and evilness that might let you win a fight or two, but you will lose the war, as Sid eventually did. Darksiders make the continual mistake of thinking "that other guy couldn't do it right, but he wasn't me," and perpetuate this futile and farcical cycle.

 

[Silent_Bob]

, or access this power at a much faster rate?

"Is the dark side stronger?"
"No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive."

Yoda answers your question in his first appearance.

 

[sonak]

yes, Yoda should be stronger. He had a lot more time to train and learn, and didn't have the distraction of a political career.


It does give the impression that the Dark Side is just naturally stronger and that Yoda is being misleading as usual in ESB.

 

[JarodRussell]

It's just the basic idea that evil people are ruthless and thus win. Bad guys shoot the hostage in the head and then throw the corpse at the good guy to distract him, or use women as shields during a firefight.

That's the difference between the Light and the Dark Side of the Force. Yoda could create Force Lighting, but he doesn't want to. It's the Jedi version of "I don't beat women."

Seriously...how many separate different Star Wars topics do you need?

How about we finally get a Star Wars subforum?

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

The dark side can give you a temporary advantage of ruthlessness and evilness that might let you win a fight or two, but you will lose the war, as Sid eventually did. Darksiders make the continual mistake of thinking "that other guy couldn't do it right, but he wasn't me," and perpetuate this futile and farcical cycle.

oh, i see. so the dark side is like a 'drug' in a way? but if the dark side wielders are always more powerful than how can light siders compete?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side.

Anyway, you're counting age like it's entirely a positive. I don't know any 900 year olds still going strong.

 

[JarodRussell]

The dark side can give you a temporary advantage of ruthlessness and evilness that might let you win a fight or two, but you will lose the war, as Sid eventually did. Darksiders make the continual mistake of thinking "that other guy couldn't do it right, but he wasn't me," and perpetuate this futile and farcical cycle.

oh, i see. so the dark side is like a 'drug' in a way? but if the dark side wielders are always more powerful than how can light siders compete?

The same way the police competes with criminals, I guess. Organized crime is much more powerful than the police in a way, with all the bribing and killing and threatening. Yet they manage to fight crime more or less well.

 

[Christopher]

so i pondered this earlier at work. Sidious is only 50-60 years old while Yoda is 900 years old. how could Sidious be more powerful than Yoda? was it simply because the dark side allows a person to become much more powerful, or access this power at a much faster rate? it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Well, how do you define "more powerful?" Are you referring to who won their fight in the Senate chamber? That's just physical power, the power to inflict violence. It stands to reason that Sidious would've focused all his efforts on developing that kind of power. Yoda, however, would've probably focused most of his 8-plus centuries of study to more ethereal, spiritual aspects of Force mastery. Yes, he's more than capable in a fight, but that's probably just a small portion of the total range of things he's devoted his studies to over the centuries.

Compare the climactic fight between Vader and Obi-Wan in A New Hope. Vader won the fight (okay, Obi-Wan let him win), but Obi-Wan achieved something far more advanced by transcending the flesh -- and in his own words, becoming more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine. The true master of the Force would understand that physical might is the crudest kind of power.

 

[JarodRussell]

Begs the question if a Shaolin monk can beat the crap out of a UFC fighter or not.

 

[Set Harth]

Yoda could create Force Lighting, but he doesn't want to.

Because it involves using the dark side.

 

[Disruptor]

Yoda underestimated Sidious. In RotJ, he says "don't underestimate the powers of the Emperor", which is what Yoda had done in RotS and what Luke does in RotJ by idiotically tossing his lightsaber away.

On equal ground, Sidious vs Yoda might've played differently, but when Yoda appears in the Emperor's office, actually surprising Sidious, he wastes that advantage on a quip, then gets zapped for his arrogance. He regains his footing, but his time was limited because it was Sidious's playing field and he had help on the way, where as all Yoda had was an escape route. (Yoda made a mistake by not killing Palpatine's aide, Mas Amedda, like he did the two guards.)

 

[MacLeod]

I think it's more a case of the Jedi where so complacent in their own power, they couldn't conceive that they could be defeated.

What should have happened is that Yoda and Obi-wan should have fought together. Get rid of Sidious first then vader or vice versa. Or at the very least the fight should have been reversed with Yoda going after Vader.

 

[sonak]

so i pondered this earlier at work. Sidious is only 50-60 years old while Yoda is 900 years old. how could Sidious be more powerful than Yoda? was it simply because the dark side allows a person to become much more powerful, or access this power at a much faster rate? it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Well, how do you define "more powerful?" Are you referring to who won their fight in the Senate chamber? That's just physical power, the power to inflict violence. It stands to reason that Sidious would've focused all his efforts on developing that kind of power. Yoda, however, would've probably focused most of his 8-plus centuries of study to more ethereal, spiritual aspects of Force mastery. Yes, he's more than capable in a fight, but that's probably just a small portion of the total range of things he's devoted his studies to over the centuries.

Compare the climactic fight between Vader and Obi-Wan in A New Hope. Vader won the fight (okay, Obi-Wan let him win), but Obi-Wan achieved something far more advanced by transcending the flesh -- and in his own words, becoming more powerful than Vader could possibly imagine. The true master of the Force would understand that physical might is the crudest kind of power.

while I agree with this point, if the Jedi can't defeat the Sith or other Dark-siders in a fight, then they don't get a chance to use their more noble powers and abilities to help others in the first place.

 

[Christopher]

Yoda underestimated Sidious. In RotJ, he says "don't underestimate the powers of the Emperor", which is what Yoda had done in RotS and what Luke does in RotJ by idiotically tossing his lightsaber away.

Wow, you could not possibly have missed the point of that scene more completely. Palpatine wanted Luke to give into anger and kill him because then he would succumb to the dark side and become a great force for evil and destruction. But Luke had enough strength, enough wisdom, that he refused to give into rage and brute violence. And when he refused to fight back and Palpatine tortured him, that awoke Vader's long-buried love for his son and triggered his turn back to the light side, and that's what led to the defeat of the Sith once and for all. Luke didn't underestimate the Emperor; rather, the Emperor underestimated Vader's capacity for love. Luke was wise enough to recognize that sometimes the best way to win is not to fight, but instead to let your enemy's own violence be his undoing.

 

[Hound of UIster]

I think it's more a case of the Jedi where so complacent in their own power, they couldn't conceive that they could be defeated.

What should have happened is that Yoda and Obi-wan should have fought together. Get rid of Sidious first then vader or vice versa. Or at the very least the fight should have been reversed with Yoda going after Vader.

Vader was ultimately the key to the destruction of Sidious. If they had done that, Palpatine would have ruled forever.

 

[Broccoli]

It's just the basic idea that evil people are ruthless and thus win. Bad guys shoot the hostage in the head and then throw the corpse at the good guy to distract him, or use women as shields during a firefight.

Sounds like an average trip to Wal*Mart.

Begs the question if a Shaolin monk can beat the crap out of a UFC fighter or not.

The answer to that should be obvious.