Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens

[Ithekro]

As for why didn't they just cruise off to join the Rebel fleet? Rebel fleet is hiding out outside the Galaxy. What better way to give the Empire the slip but to park some tens if not hundreds of thousands of light years outside their usual territory?

Though we know from Attack of the Clones that there are at least two satellite galaxies along with the main galaxy that are within reach of the Galactic Republic. The Galactic Empire has the same reach, and more firepower.

 

[Mach5]

Star Wars ships go between systems like we can use a car to between towns.. because Star Wars is a fantasy.

Indeed. As is Star Trek, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, StarGate SG1/Atlantis/Universe.... pretty much any movie/show that involves system/galaxy spanning space travel.

I once had a nightmare in which the Enterprise traveled to the center of the Milky way in a blink of an eye, but instead of a super-massive black hole, the found an alien there who claimed to be god...

 

[martok2112]

Star Wars ships go between systems like we can use a car to between towns.. because Star Wars is a fantasy.

Indeed. As is Star Trek, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, StarGate SG1/Atlantis/Universe.... pretty much any movie/show that involves system/galaxy spanning space travel.

I once had a nightmare in which the Enterprise traveled to the center of the Milky way in a blink of an eye, but instead of a super-massive black hole, the found an alien there who claimed to be god...

Many have shared that nightmare, but were forced into silence by government intervention. You may have been one of the lucky ones. Be courageous. Share your story.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So, if the Falcon is capable of low FTL speeds even with only a conventional drive operational, it could have limped to the neighboring Anoat System and then on to the Bespin System if they were relatively close, like in a densely packed triple star system (the turbulent nature of which could explain the abundance of asteroids in the system). Han said Bespin was far, but that could be referring to travel time for them without a hyperdrive rather than distance relative to the rest of the galaxy.

Yeah, that's more or less what I proposed here.

The only other alternative I can think of is to imagine that the stars are less than light years apart, perhaps even in a multiple star system with the stars having very large orbits. So, we'd be talking about a trinary star system at least, one star each for Hoth, Anoat, and Bespin, but they really orbit each other with long periods. Each star would have its own stable solar system, separate from the others. Maybe this possibility is the way to go.

The only quibble I have with your figure is that I don't believe it's implied by TESB which mass is predominant. You have everything orbiting Hoth's sun, but it may be some other arrangement, such as two of the three orbiting each other and the third orbiting those two but further out.

I agree that the trinary system idea "accounts" (as it were) for the asteroid field, by way of suggesting that there might be interstellar tidal activity that might be more significant in certain epochs than in others, such as if the stellar orbits are eccentric, and that could tend to either break planets apart or keep them from fully accreting in the first place. In other words, maybe it's something like a fantasy version of an Oort cloud between the stars in the three-way system (or maybe even more than three), where space monsters live....

It would also in the same way account for the meteor activity that General Rieekan mentions and that may have masked the approach of the Imperial probe droid.


As for your idea regarding what .5 past light speed means, eh, maybe. I don't see anything contradicting it.

 

[DWF]

Upon checking the Falcon's log they check what system they're in and Han mentions Lando and tells Leia that Bespin is far away but they can make it. To me anyway that would mean they're already in Bespin's system.

I don't think so--if they are already in the Bespin system then how did they get their without hyperdrive. The entire space battle must have taken place within the Hoth system. Flying Spaghetti Monster has the right idea, I think.

Official Star Wars material states the Falcon (indeed many ships) have backup hyperdrives.

Falcon has a class 0.5 hyperdrive with a class 10 backup

So why didn't Han use the backup to get away? The Emprie was bearing down on them twice and twice Han tries to go into lightspeed and twice the Flacon fails to do so.

 

[martok2112]

I don't think so--if they are already in the Bespin system then how did they get their without hyperdrive. The entire space battle must have taken place within the Hoth system. Flying Spaghetti Monster has the right idea, I think.

Official Star Wars material states the Falcon (indeed many ships) have backup hyperdrives.

Falcon has a class 0.5 hyperdrive with a class 10 backup

So why didn't Han use the backup to get away? The Emprie was bearing down on them twice and twice Han tries to go into lightspeed and twice the Flacon fails to do so.

Ancient Chinese Secret!


Seriously though, lots of sci-fi properties probably tend to reconsider the hows and whys of events when they release sourcebooks (if their universe is rich enough to do so). At the time of the release of TESB, it probably wasn't even a consideration that the Falcon had a backup hyperdrive (much the same as Star Wars wasn't called Episode IV: A New Hope until a few years later)....but sourcebooks released later (and officially sanctioned by LFL) allowed for a backup hyperdrive to be the case.

In universe, I would postulate that it was a tactical decision on Han's part.

Consider, if you will:
If Han were to try and engage the backup hyperdrive, a class 10-slow-as-space-slugs- hyperdrive while under the guns of an Imperial Star Destroyer which, if I'm not mistaken, carries a class 1 hyperdrive (class 2 at worst), they'd be overtaken, likely forced out of hyperspace, and captured in moments.

Han had to make sure that he broke line of sight (and sensor contacts) with the Avenger (and other pursuing star destroyers), and then, once the Imperial Fleet broke away, he could safely engage his backup....unbeknownst to him, he was being trailed by Boba Fett.

Under relatively benign circumstances, (i.e. not being pursued by the Empire, or space pirates, or criminal organizations, etc) a ship could engage its backup hyperdrive to limp to the nearest spaceport/repair facility if their main hyperdrive were malfunctioning. Clearly, the circumstances in which the crew of the Falcon found themselves were anything but benign.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

The truth is, of course, that the writers never thought of the science of space travel when they wrote in the trip to Bespin.

Assuming that the ship can somehow approach light speed though, and perhaps Bespin is close as in a few light years, the journey to Bespin could take a few years from Luke's perspective but pass relatively quickly for those aboard the Falcon.

Light speed and hyperspace as mentioned earlier don't seem to depend on distance so theoretically a trip across great distances of the galaxy could be as quick or quicker than trips to closer stars. If that's the case then it makes sense that Han might not realize how close the Bespin system is physically until he looks at the computer--the characters just don't think in terms of physical maps the same way we do.

I would gave enjoyed that solution.
Giving Luke years of Training without having to deal with Han and Leia spending years of boredom or making Luke complete his training within weeks at best.
It also would have made the construction of the second death star more convincing happening in the mean time.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The truth is, of course, that the writers never thought of the science of space travel when they wrote in the trip to Bespin.

Assuming that the ship can somehow approach light speed though, and perhaps Bespin is close as in a few light years, the journey to Bespin could take a few years from Luke's perspective but pass relatively quickly for those aboard the Falcon.

Light speed and hyperspace as mentioned earlier don't seem to depend on distance so theoretically a trip across great distances of the galaxy could be as quick or quicker than trips to closer stars. If that's the case then it makes sense that Han might not realize how close the Bespin system is physically until he looks at the computer--the characters just don't think in terms of physical maps the same way we do.

I would gave enjoyed that solution.
Giving Luke years of Training without having to deal with Han and Leia spending years of boredom or making Luke complete his training within weeks at best.
It also would have made the construction of the second death star more convincing happening in the mean time.

Would the Rebel fleet still be waiting for years at coordinates that Leia was familiar with, or would they have moved on by then? I'd tend to think they'd've moved on by then, since the longer they wait and the longer Leia is missing, they should assume the more likely it is that their position has been compromised. Any, why would they assume she was ever coming back after a certain point? Unfortunately, also, there's not evidence that Luke spent years training on Dagobah. Months, maybe. I'd think he would have been better prepared after training for years.

 

[theenglish]

Upon checking the Falcon's log they check what system they're in and Han mentions Lando and tells Leia that Bespin is far away but they can make it. To me anyway that would mean they're already in Bespin's system.

I don't think so--if they are already in the Bespin system then how did they get their without hyperdrive. The entire space battle must have taken place within the Hoth system. Flying Spaghetti Monster has the right idea, I think.

Official Star Wars material states the Falcon (indeed many ships) have backup hyperdrives.

Falcon has a class 0.5 hyperdrive with a class 10 backup

I believe in only going by what we see onscreen. "official" material can be decanonized quickly and not all fans read that stuff. Locutus of Bored's theory that speculates on actual screen dialogue is more acceptable to me than a tech manual. Sorry.

UNLESS, somebody has the official novelization published at the time of the movie and that has an actual explanation?

 

[davejames]

Well not to interrupt the SW science lesson, but I thought this sounded pretty interesting from Abrams, about what inspired the First Order idea and who Kylo Ren reports to.

Although personally I'm just really excited to finally see someone as the main villain besides Palpatine.

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/ne...der-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens#/slide/1

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So the Ren in Kylo Ren is most likely not part of his name and is instead a title, like Darth (except not Sith related in this case). Unless The Knights of Ren take their name from him, which would be kind of odd since he's not even their leader.

Interesting information about the thought process behind the First Order, as well.

 

[martok2112]

I don't think so--if they are already in the Bespin system then how did they get their without hyperdrive. The entire space battle must have taken place within the Hoth system. Flying Spaghetti Monster has the right idea, I think.

Official Star Wars material states the Falcon (indeed many ships) have backup hyperdrives.

Falcon has a class 0.5 hyperdrive with a class 10 backup

I believe in only going by what we see onscreen. "official" material can be decanonized quickly and not all fans read that stuff. Locutus of Bored's theory that speculates on actual screen dialogue is more acceptable to me than a tech manual. Sorry.

UNLESS, somebody has the official novelization published at the time of the movie and that has an actual explanation?

I don't limit myself to "only what happens on screen" if there is supporting, official documentation to enhance what is not always explained on screen.

For me, it's simply a matter of: "Okay, that makes sense."

When I make my tribute films, I hate limiting myself to "only what's been on screen before".

Nitpicker: "Hey, a Star Destroyer never used ion cannons on screen! You can't do that!"

Myself: "Sorry, but I also prefer to go by more than just what meets the eye. If it is stated officially that a Star Destroyer has ion cannons, well, guess what, they're gonna use ion cannons in my tribute films."

It's like I said before.... no, it is not explained how or why the Falcon actually manages to make it to Bespin on film. That official sourcebook material (granted, which came a bit later) takes up the slack, and provides a plausible explanation is perfectly fine with me.

In some sense, since a backup hyperdrive would be so slow, the Falcon may as well have been moving through real-space.

When the Official Movie Magazine for The Empire Strikes Back came out, it was mentioned that stormtrooper armor was "blaster proof", but, only for glancing blows. A direct hit will still do full on damage. It was never mentioned in the movies, but it makes sense.

But hey. I'm not gonna convince you. You're not gonna convince me. So, as gentlebeings, let's agree to disagree.



Besides.... I'm not a fan of anything....remember?

 

[Ithekro]

At sublight the Falcon is pretty fast, and hyperdrives don't seem to be useful for short jumps, or else the Star Destroyers would try to jump in front of the Falcon to block it.

But if Solo uses a slow backup system, the hyperdrives can easily outrun them and either block them, or using their obvious plotted course, get their first by quite a bit of time.

 

[theenglish]

But hey. I'm not gonna convince you. You're not gonna convince me. So, as gentlebeings, let's agree to disagree.



Besides.... I'm not a fan of anything....remember?

No worries--that was exactly what I meant by my Canadian "sorry".

 

[JD]

I have to admit, I never really gave much thought to how the Falcon got to Bespin. I had assumed since they said hyperdrive wasn't working, that they went there with sublight engines. I hadn't heard about the slower back up hyperdrive, but that makes sense to me.
As for the travel time, I had always figured it was weeks, or maybe a month or two at the absolute most. I had always figured that Luke didn't spend very much time on Dagobah. If Luke had spent months (3+) or years on Dagobah, I don't think Yoda and Obi-Wan would have made such a big deal about him leaving before his training was finished. I just don't really see Leia and Han spending years floating through space in the Falcon.

 

[Reverend]

^I don't know, it used to take about two decades to train a Jedi Knight and that's when you could start them when they're still little more than toddlers. One of the main initial objections to training Anakin was that as ten years old, he was already too old to be trained and a decade later, they were still questioning his readiness.

With that in mind I think a few months is *barely* enough time to get the basics down. You know, things like rock floating and not accidentally decapitating yourself with your own lightsaber. He didn't even have enough time to mention the whole midichlorian thing.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I have to admit, I never really gave much thought to how the Falcon got to Bespin. I had assumed since they said hyperdrive wasn't working, that they went there with sublight engines. I hadn't heard about the slower back up hyperdrive, but that makes sense to me.
As for the travel time, I had always figured it was weeks, or maybe a month or two at the absolute most. I had always figured that Luke didn't spend very much time on Dagobah. If Luke had spent months (3+) or years on Dagobah, I don't think Yoda and Obi-Wan would have made such a big deal about him leaving before his training was finished. I just don't really see Leia and Han spending years floating through space in the Falcon.

Well, I just take into account that we learned long after TESB that a complete Jedi training takes decades really and Luke could only have gotten the cliffnotes of the index in that short amount of time really.
He was self-tought to a great degree obviously and it says something about his natural ability to use the force to get as far as he did, but Yoda's remark that he knows everything he needs to know after a few weeks hopping through the swamp and only needed to pass this test of confronting the dark side embodied by his father seemed a little far fetched to me even back when I first saw it as a teenager.
So him training for years would have gotten around that without Leaia, Han and Chewie having to spend that same amount of time.
Could have been a pretty powerful scene if they realized that they would basically miss the war just trying to get to a save habor and not knowing what the state of the galaxy or the rebellion would be when they finally arrive.

but that would probably have been too much for the general Star Wars audience at the time.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I have to say that the participants in the previous argument have put more thought into their comments than Lucas put into either the OT or the Prequels.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I still think they are spaceships, and they can go form system to system just like we go from town to town.. assuming that it's not terribly far.

If I was in the 18th century and wrote a "futuristic" story set in 2015 and had people taking cars etc, I would NOT explain much how the cars would get form town to town.. the reader of that era would just accept that's what cars do. And if the muffler of the hero's car falls out, that reader wouldn't have idea what that meant. They'd either enjoy or not depending on the merits of the storytelling, not how cars and distances actually work

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Hey FSM, can you tell us the "Star Wars interstellar travel is like going town to town in a car" analogy again? I missed it the first nineteen times you used it over the last couple pages.