Pretty much my sentiment. I even hid my eyes during some of the Jabba scenes! I was 9 as well, and yeah, the Ewoks were pretty much targeted to our age group. But hey, I still have my Ewok Village playset! My 6 year old plays with it now.
Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens
- Thread starter cooleddie74
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Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Funny thing is that set was one of the ROTJ toys that was modified for the Robin Hood Prince Of Thieves line.
Good catch there when it comes to the old Droids reference to the Boonta Speeder Race in that series. As big a Star Wars fan as I've been since I was old enough to remember the early Kenner action figures in stores even I was unaware of the tie between the Episode I podrace sequence and Droids until an official visual guide listed the Boonta reference and that Lucas would later use it when writing The Phantom Menace, only changing the vehicles used in the race from speeders to the newly-invented pods and podracers.
Other than the Ewoks, one thing that ROTJ has going against it, which was very noticeable even when we only had those three films to watch over and over again on VHS, was how much it regurgitated ANH.
It seems to be a problem with trilogies in that the third film mimics a lot of the first film, mainly for nostalgia. I always thought a good plot to ROTJ would have been to have the rebels retake Coruscant. You could still have the Luke/Emperor/Vader stuff happen, but in the Emperor's throne room on the capitol. Then again, most of that idea was made in hindsight of the prequels and what we actually got in Jedi.
Yeah both movies start out on Tatooine and feature a Death Star, but so many other elements are different that they don't really feel like the same stories much at all to me.
And frankly I really love that Second Death Star. Not only did it look cool as hell half-finished, but we got to see so many new areas of it that it still felt new and different enough to me from the original version. And having the Emperor on board this time also gave it a whole new feel and a greater sense of danger as well, I thought.
Which isn't to say the movie didn't have story issues, of course. But I think the problem was much more with the simplistic characterizations and tone than the fact there were a few similar story elements.
And frankly I really love that Second Death Star. Not only did it look cool as hell half-finished, but we got to see so many new areas of it that it still felt new and different enough to me from the original version. And having the Emperor on board this time also gave it a whole new feel and a greater sense of danger as well, I thought.
Which isn't to say the movie didn't have story issues, of course. But I think the problem was much more with the simplistic characterizations and tone than the fact there were a few similar story elements.
I know a few people for whom ROTJ is their favorite of the Original Trilogy films and while I don't share their sentiment I can understand the points they make when they mention the reasons. It's hard to dislike any aspects of the original films and they definitely hold up better in storytelling terms than most of the Prequels in spite of the fantastic advances in filmmaking technology between the early '80s and the late '90s.
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
Sketcher, that was actually the original plan/script-except Coruscant had a different name, Had Abbadon. There's even some old concept art depicting it from the early 80s.
The Emperor's name being Palpatine dates back to an early newspaper comic strip depicting the Imperial homeworld (which at the time was not called Coruscant). They didn't use the Emperor's given name on official Star Wars merchandise and collectibles until long after the original versions of the OT left theaters and the first action figure to carry the name Palpatine wasn't until 1997 when the Special Editions were released.
Actually he's referred to as Senator Palpatine in the prologue to the Star Wars novelisation.
The Emperor's name being Palpatine dates to the prologue of the original novelization.
Ninja'd.
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I remember the early figures (around 1984) having his name Palpatine on it.
It's the kind of obscure detail I do remember much like recalling tht the original Vader figures said Dark Lord of the Sith
Vader was also described that way in the original novelization.
(Ha! Got this one in first.
)
I stand corrected about the film novelization (it's been ages since I've done more than glance at the cover art) so thanks, but the original Emperor action figure was simply "The Emperor" and the name "Palpatine" didn't appear on any official toy packaging until around 1997 when his very first Modern (1995-present) Hasbro/Kenner action figure was released.
Doctorwhovian
Fleet Captain
In one of the earlier scripts for the original film, the Emperor is a prince named Valorum. Kind of funny that Lucas reused the name as Palpatine's predecessor in TPM.
What's also interesting is in the original novel, Palpatine is seen as sort of a weak ruler, with the Moffs being in control of the Empire. It wasn't until ESB that he was established as a user of the dark side....and likewise, his Sith lord status was not really confirmed until TPM.
Other writers tried to explain the term being used only for Vader in the interim; Zahn even had the idea that the Sith were a race Vader ruled over. This eventually became the Noghri since Lucas had other plans for the term.
What's also interesting is in the original novel, Palpatine is seen as sort of a weak ruler, with the Moffs being in control of the Empire. It wasn't until ESB that he was established as a user of the dark side....and likewise, his Sith lord status was not really confirmed until TPM.
Other writers tried to explain the term being used only for Vader in the interim; Zahn even had the idea that the Sith were a race Vader ruled over. This eventually became the Noghri since Lucas had other plans for the term.
The first time I ever saw the title "Dark Lord of the Sith" wasn't in a book or novelization, but on a Topps trading card of Vader from The Empire Strikes Back.
The big thing for me with ROTJ is that it's considerably uglier than its predecessor.
Take this shot from Empire:
Check the diffuse lighting that makes the fog seem to glow slightly. There's no clear light source. The ship is massive on the right, but its shape ends suddenly where the nose enters the water, forming a sharper angle. Luke steps uneasily towards the tip, and towards the background, walking to the left, which also makes him appear less confident.
There are three points of warm color in the image: R2's light, the light on the wing of the ship, and Luke's uniform. In any case, Luke is walking away from the lights. The small patch of ground exactly mirrors the angle of the ship's nose, but it's pushed off to the left and further away. It's unclear where the water ends and where the fog begins. The overall composition is an X or hourglass shape. Everything points to the water. It's just great composition.
But then, looking at Jedi, depicting roughly the same location:
Rather than having diffuse lighting, the scene is lit by multiple fairly direct light sources. The shadows cast in the fog by the ship's guns reveal at least two, pointing in different directions. It's basically just a plain white light. R2 glows bright white too, in what is supposedly a foggy nighttime scene. A subtler, yellowish light illuminates the background. The composition is quasi-rectangular: large quasi-rectangular patch on the right, quasi-rectangular pool of water, etc. None of the lines lead your eye anywhere. It's just not a good visual.
And this is one of the worst shots in the entire six-film saga.
You can chalk up part of the look to Marquand / Hume switching from the 100T stock used on Empire to Eastman 250T 5293, which was a short-lived, low-grain stock, but the (terrible) composition still speaks for itself.
A lot of shots in Jedi look "off" to me, even the space shots especially early in the film.. the shadows are too pronounced.
And the rotoscoping used for Luke's and Vader's lightsabers in ROTJ was a lot fuzzier and sloppier in appearance than the very crisp and fantastic-looking lightsaber blades depicted in Empire. The DVD and Blu ray enhancements of the blades improved them a little bit (although Vader's is now too pink in both ESB and Jedi and sometimes I wish they'd just go into the films and find some effective way to insert modern digitally-created blades over top of the originals so that they look more like the Prequel weapons in terms of definition and the crispness of the blade effects).
