You're still doing it. It's not "fact" or "objective" in any way. It's just your claim.
I have cited my sources repeatedly. They are canon and irrefutable.
Usurping control of another person's mind (even if justified by necessity is a Dark act).
Wrong. It wasn't portrayed as such when Obi-Wan did it, and it wasn't portrayed as such when Qui-Gon did it.
That they
did the act was portrayed. The moral context of the act is not something that can be portrayed in word or action, it is something that must be understood by the viewer in context.
Wrong again. This is not Lucas' position. It's yours, in which more or less everything is "Dark"... other than non-action in the face of evil, interestingly enough.
Need any more hay for those straw men? I said no such thing, nor did I imply them. I defy you to show me anywhere I called upon the Jedi to not act in the face of evil. I said that not all acts that the Jedi undertook were necessarily Light acts. Refusing to return a child to his rightful parent upon parental request, for example, cannot be seen as anything OTHER than being a Dark act. It is kidnapping. It is a violation of fundamental rights possessed by both the child and the parent.
Foracably altering the mind of a sentient cannot be seen as anyting other than a Dark act, however justified it may be in a particular context. It is a violation of the integrity of the individual.
This fallacious binary categorization of actions into "Light" and "Dark" is a practice which Lucas and the films do not indulge in.
Not directly no. But their catagorization is implicit in the rules that the Jedi are
allegedly bound to live by.
You're describing "balance in the membership rolls of the Jedi and Sith", but such a thing is not the balance of the Force, because the Jedi/Sith ranks are not the Force. The Force is an energy field generated by all living things. And once again, if balance was an equivalence between numbers of Jedi and numbers of Sith, Mace Windu would not be looking forward to the balance of the Force as a positive outcome. The films simply do not support your misunderstanding of this concept.
That is not and never has been the concept I am advocating. The "balance of the force" is very obviously NOT referring to numbers of Jedi and Sith, but to the Light and Dark aspects of the Force itself. Both Jedi and Sith are guilty as presented of taking one "side" of the Force and holding it to be the entirety of the Force, defining "balance" (as Lucas claims he does) as the absence of the "other side".
No, they didn't. This is just more obfuscation based on misusing the label "dark". The "pre-Reformation Jedi" were not dark side adherents, and there is no source which says that they were.
Nor am I or have I claimed that they were. I said that they subscribed to a
balanced perspective of the Force that incorporated both Light and Dark aspects into their worldview, as opposed to post-Reformation Jedi who attempted to purge Dark aspects entirely, thus unbalancing the Force.
The term "balance to the Force" was not redefined by the EU in question because it didn't even appear there.
The "balance of the Force" is a question that at least in part informs many EU works, set pre and post Movies.
But the original allegation was that the Jedi took KIDS from their HOMES as common practice.
Which for all we know is the case. We only know the circumstances of a few Jedi upon their "induction" into the Order. We DO also know that the Jedi are more than willing to alter the minds of others to get what they want.
When the "truth" -- written by an EU saboteur
And here we come to it. You do not want to admit EU information when/where it contradicts your illusory structure you have built for yourself.
the Jedi found a KID ( not Multiple Man as far as we know ) in some ruins and... wait for it... didn't just leave the kid there.
Which is morally praiseworthy. However, their LATER decision NOT TO RETURN the child to it's rightful parent is NOT morally praiseworthy.
Because ignoring Poopsie would have been the moral thing to do, in the upside-down world where the pigeon-drop scammer is always right and the person trying to do the right thing is always wrong.
Again with the straw man. I never claimed any such thing. And just who is this "pigeon-drop scammer"?
Which only proves my point. Qui-Gon set out to effectively STEAL the hyperdrive parts from Watto, without exploring other options.
Right. The fact that Watto could easily just go to a Republic planet and spend all those Republic credits "proves" that paying for them with Republic credits would be STEALING.
Watto certainly thought so, since he refused to accept the credits in the first place.
Both the Republic and the Jedi, if they were being true to their beliefs would not just sit back and let mass slavery flourish.
Wait, so you're saying the Jedi should have just swooped in and taken away the personal property of all those slaveowners? Now you're just contradicting yourself on a massive scale.
Only because you continue to ignore my repeated statements to the effect that actions must be taken in a context and that an act may be considered Dark and still be justified in a given one.
Wouldn't that make the Jedi arrogant to assume they could do such a thing, and therefore "Dark"? Wouldn't that be STEALING?
There is a difference between owning hyperdrive parts/junk/whatever, which is perfectly legitimate, and owning a sentient being, which is NEVER legitimate behavior.
You've just proved that your case against the Jedi is in fact total nonsense.
No, you've just proven that 1) you cant be bothered to read or understand what I DID say or 2) are simply incapable of doing so
They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Which means that you're really not faulting them for anything they did -- they're automatically at fault because they're Jedi. Just a clear-cut case of Jedi Derangement Syndrome.
Entire fields of hay have been consumed by your army of straw men at this point. There is little to be gained by allowing you additional opportunities to deliberately lie about what I said and how I said it to advance your delusional archetecture about the relationship of the Jedi and the Force and the Jedi/Sith conflict.
I am therefore moving on to other topics. No doubt you will trumpet it as a "great victory over the Sith supporter". At this point I care not.
