Star Wars Books Thread

[tenmei]

I have to defend JD here - you've openly said many things about Filoni et al, in this post alone you've called him an asshole, purely on the grounds that you don't like Rebels. As JD has pointed out - you're similarly dismissive of Zahn.

You've openly said in your response that you would welcome the chance to say these things to his face - and you make the distinction of you wouldn't say things like this on FB or twitter. But you would here? What makes trekbbs different to the other social media locations?

All JD is suggesting is the people whose work you're slamming might want an opportunity to defend themselves? I'm not sure how that's harassing you? I know you're not supposed to make public any private messages - but he's merely suggesting linking them to the conversation that is already publicly accessible.

 

[WebLurker]

Honestly, I'm not looking for expansion. A single book or story establishing backstory relevant to the movie for Jyn, Cassian, etc is what I want. I want to know where K2 is from, why Jyn was in jail, where Donnie Yen and his friend came from and what they did before the Empire destroyed their order, etc. I know the characters don't really have a big time frame to set stories in, I just want some general audience stories to explain the stuff I think would make the characters more three dimensional and interesting, and not just random people who got the death star plans.

The questions you've been raising have been addressed in canonical materials already, just not in Del Rey-published novels, Marvel comics, or whatever the frak other kinds of materials you prefer. You don't want to read it, fine, but the question isn't "why haven't they answered these questions?" but "why isn't Del Rey/Marvel/whomever producing more R1 tie-ins?" and that's a question we're not really in a position to answer. We don't know the committee meetings, the planning, the stuff in the pipeline.

I thought the new cartoon was stated as non-canonical?

Everything I'm seeing says it is canon. If that changes, well, then that's something else.

Regardless, it looks like its targeting people younger then the 7-8 year olds of Rebels, so I doubt much will come of it.

We'll see.

As for how much TFA got, its the first movie in a trilogy and it actually bothered to give characterization to its main characters, so a lack of general audience books connected to it isn't such a big deal.

Whatever you say.

Kids books might be entertaining for kids. Maybe they're even high quality kids books. I'd guarentee that every single one of them is better then Lost Stars at the very least.

Any examples?

That doesn't make them relevant or particularly canon.

Relevancy can only be proven in retrospect. And they are "particularly canon" by the rules of the franchise, so the question is, are they a canon story that leads to other things in the Saga and other big stories, or are they a canon story that a smaller story in the Star Wars world. Each has it's own merits.

None of that has shown in the quality of the work.

That gets into subjectivity. Case in point, I found some of the stuff you don't like to be good Star Wars.

Besides, a lot of terrible writers have had very successful careers, and people like Claudia Grey were already making a career out of terrible books.

She did do good Star Wars stuff (IMHO, from reading her stuff all the way through), so, once again subjectivity.

Filoni is no more the deicder of quality then any fan.

Unlike us, he works professionally in the TV industry, meaning pro writing credits, the like. Subjectively, you're right, but that's opinion, when you get down to it.

As for Zahn, the fact that he wrote a character named Thrawn that in no way (other then superficial) resembles his actual character shows where he stands.

Zahn has been consistent in saying otherwise and there is no credible reason to think he's lying when he says that (in his mind, for sure). (Your suggestions that he's lying or just toeing the line is unproven speculation at best and coming from a faulty assumption; he doesn't agree with me, therefore he is wrong.)

He's either a sell out or an idiot.

Can you prove that?

I don't really care why he's just a yes man for Filoni at this point, but the result is someone whose opinion on SW is not relevant to anything.

He created the frakking character, for pete's sake! He's a pro author, has worked with Star Wars for years, etc. In all honestly, his opinion on Thrawn is the most relevant of all, far more than your's or mine, for sure.

As for Filoni, he has absolutely no respect or care for the franchise or any character he didn't create (and based on what he did to Ahsoka, he doesn't even like the characters he did create).

In your opinion, and not a very accurate one, if you ask me (such is the nature of subjectivity). Thrawn is in Rebels because Filoni and co. wanted to use him. They wanted to use him because they were fans of the books. Every written and spoken statement they have made is that they love the franchise and their jobs. There is literally no reason to question that they believe what they say. "But they make awful shows, so how could they love Star Wars?" you ask. Because in your subjective opinion, they're bad. Other people (many other people) disagree with you on the standards. At the end of the day, you can hold a subjective opinion, but that is not an absolute, which is what you position is based on.

All your arguments boil down to: "I think thing X is bad. Those who disagree are wrong, therefore, they are mistaken at best, or are idiots." That is very bad reasoning and a poor excuse to be saying nasty things about people when there is no other reason to disbelieve them except that they don't agree with your biased, subjective opinions. I submit to you that they disagree with you due to creative differences and the subjective nature of such things. No more and no less.

I don't know if Filoni is lazy and greedy or an ego maniac, but he's done more damage to star Wars then Lucas ever did, and Lucas drove parts of it into the ground.

Really? I find that answer vague and unconvincing. See above, too.

I don't recall Legends connecting everything to a few crappy stories. heck, the EU did a fairly good job of, without retconning them, pushing away bad stories (all the fallout of that terrible Dark nest trilogy were so blatantly pushed aside in the time skip in the next books/event that it felt like an apology for even publishing those books in the first place).

Legacy of the Force, anyone?

The old EU is dead. I love it, but its not relevant. If Disney liked it, they'd follow its style more and would publish books that resembled it more. Its irritating that they can make money off it while all their new products do nothing but steal from the old EU, while doing the stolen things worse and just generally insulting the old EU.

Whatever.

 

[kirk55555]

I have to defend JD here - you've openly said many things about Filoni et al, in this post alone you've called him an asshole, purely on the grounds that you don't like Rebels. As JD has pointed out - you're similarly dismissive of Zahn.

You've openly said in your response that you would welcome the chance to say these things to his face - and you make the distinction of you wouldn't say things like this on FB or twitter. But you would here? What makes trekbbs different to the other social media locations?

All JD is suggesting is the people whose work you're slamming might want an opportunity to defend themselves? I'm not sure how that's harassing you? I know you're not supposed to make public any private messages - but he's merely suggesting linking them to the conversation that is already publicly accessible.

I wouldn't go out of my way to say anything to Filoni. If I was magically in a room with him, and it was brought up, I'd say something. Nothing I say will change anything, and I don't believe in going after people personally. I have the right to my opinion, but the only way Filoni is going to hear it is if the planets align, we end up in a room together and someone (besides me) brings it up. Yelling criticism at someone does nothing. I have no desire to interact with him or anyone else directly involved in the shit.

I can say whatever the hell I want, its my opinion. If you don't think hundreds of people have badmouthed filoni on social media, and that I'm somehow the only person who really dislikes him and his work, you're very much mistaken. He doesn't have to know about every single person who dislikes him, unless he's some nut making a list of Star wars fans who don't like him (and that list would be huge even if only a very, very small percent of SW fans disliked him).

Also, I don't just call him an asshole because he does some bad work. I legitimately believe he is causing harm to the SW franchise, if not monetarily then creatively. That's being an asshole in my book. Its bizarre that people are so offended that someone is getting criticized. Unless you or JD are actually Filoni posting under a pseudonym, even considering posting random criticism of him in other places is completely mental.

It is also harassment to try to bring people down on someone for things they never said to that person. Even if specifically using posts from Trekbbs on other sites isn't against the rules, doing it that way is possibly harassment and I'd at least bring the mods in to see what they think if JD actually did that. In the end, he's trying to get someone after me for something I said on this forum, and not to them. That's very possibly harassment from one poster (JD) to another (Me).

Not that it really matters in terms of things happening. JD doesn't have a way to bring harassment to me on my social media (since, I will give this away, this is the only place I use "kirk55555") and even if Filoni decided that Filoni hater #4456F deserved a comment, especially enough to sign up to a forum for the specific purpose of doing that, I'd just ignore him. Its the hassle and bizarre idea behind doing that, and the attempt at harassment, that's pissing me off.

At the end of the day, I'm just a guy venting his frustration on a message board. Even if every post I said was sent directly to Filoni's brain, he wouldn't exactly be losing sleep over someone hating his work or thinking he's an asshole.

 

[fireproof78]

It seems like a lot of hate against someone not known personally.

 

[kirk55555]

She did do good Star Wars stuff (IMHO, from reading her stuff all the way through), so, once again subjectivity.

Whatever. I seriously question how anyone over the age of 14 can read more then ten pages of Lost Stars without wanting to burn the damn thing, but that's how opinion works. There are people who'd rather watch grass grow then read a Star wars book at all.

Unlike us, he works professionally in the TV industry, meaning pro writing credits, the like. Subjectively, you're right, but that's opinion, when you get down to it.

Being a pro doesn't mean the person is good at what they do. Even if they are financially successful, they may still be pretty bad (see Michael Bay and Stephanie Meyer as relevant examples).

Zahn has been consistent in saying otherwise and there is no credible reason to think he's lying when he says that (in his mind, for sure). (Your suggestions that he's lying or just toeing the line is unproven speculation at best and coming from a faulty assumption; he doesn't agree with me, therefore he is wrong.)

Based on what Rebels has done and reviews of his book, I don't believe there is any credible reason to believe he's not either lying to toe the line or just doesn't care anymore.

He created the frakking character, for pete's sake! He's a pro author, has worked with Star Wars for years, etc. In all honestly, his opinion on Thrawn is the most relevant of all, far more than your's or mine, for sure.

Well, his opinion on the character was relevant when he was writing the character. He hasn't written the real Thrawn in years, and certainly didn't do it in the new book.

In your opinion, and not a very accurate one, if you ask me (such is the nature of subjectivity). Thrawn is in Rebels because Filoni and co. wanted to use him. They wanted to use him because they were fans of the books. Every written and spoken statement they have made is that they love the franchise and their jobs. There is literally no reason to question that they believe what they say.

There is no way in hell Filoni added Thrawn because he liked the character. He doesn't. He does not like thrawn, and he doesn't respect the character or the stories the character was in. No one, no matter how incompetent, would do such a bad job with the character. There are absolutely no similarities between the character of thrawn in the original books and the one on the cartoon except the name, the look and the fact that they both like art. Besides that, the Rebels Thrawn has about as much in common with the old Thrawn as he does with, say, Admiral Daala or Warlord Zsinji (except those were two generally decent character). They're all imperial characters who are/were admirals in the imperial navy. That's about as deep a connection the two thrawns have as well, outside those three things I mentioned.

If Filoni liked Thrawn, he would have actually used the character. he could have been a lot more accurate with thrawn, even on a kids show. But, he just didn't care. Filoni was just stealing things from the old EU like he tends to do, and Thrawn was a very noticeable, well liked part of the old EU so he was ripe to exploit. So that's what Filoni did, exploit parts of the character for whatever terrible character he was already planning to put on the show. Why make up your own character when you can save effort and try to get a bit of extra money/views off of the nostalgia of SW fans.

Legacy of the Force, anyone?

Still far superior to Rebels or 80% of the non comic/movie new canon, and I say that as someone who dislikes most of it, outright hates parts of it and only rereads the mandalorian sections.

It seems like a lot of hate against someone not known personally.

You don't have to know someone to hate their work and hate how they've ruined some things you like.

 

[fireproof78]

I still don't hate the person.

 

[Ithekro]

There are of course several differences for productions at various times in Star Wars.

From 1990 to so until 1999 there was basically only the novels, comic books, and computer games to tell stories. There was no, or very little concept of more films.

During the run of the Prequels, there was still an open end for the Heroes of Yavin to move forwards, while also expanding a little on the PT era stories. Some got tossed out almost as soon as the next film appeared. The post-PT was were a lot more material started to come out, but there also proved to be a lot of toes being stepped on as the novels, comics, and later Clone Wars cartoon treaded the same territory, and Lucas tended to do what he wanted regardless of what other published material his company has put out. That even comes up a few times in interviews from behind the scenes of The Clone Wars. They would have all this EU material to present whenever Lucas brought out an idea for a story arc. The mountain of material they brought out for when George said they are going to do something on Mandalore was staggering. This is pre-Story Group. So the various pieces didn't have to line up, and if the boss (George Lucas) wants to do it this way, well it will get done that way. The various authors of the Clone Wars and now Rebels, had made efforts to keep as much of the older backstories as possible when bringing stuff back to the screen. What tends to get tossed is future material (in relation to the characters or plot) or contemporary materials that don't fit the story that is going to be told. The backstory remains, but the situation changes.

Now, post-Disney, the problem facing novel writers is not that there is a Sequel Trilogy being made....it is that there is that, plus Anthology movies being made, and any number of TV shows in the works. Star Wars on the large or small screen can go in literally any direction right now, and that limits the options for novelist to go as there might be something in the works already to cover whatever it is they had a idea for. This is why the Story Group is presently important. To keep all the various departments, authors, and designers up to speed with each other so that they don't step on each other's toes like what happened during the PT/Clone Wars era of the company. As they mentioned at Celebration, they are at least a year or two ahead of us in the canon as far as what they know for authors, designers, and producers to work off of so they don't step on other's toes. But they also have to watch themselves as to remember, just what has come out already, and what is still in production.

Based on what Rebels has done and reviews of his book, I don't believe there is any credible reason to believe he's not either lying to toe the line or just doesn't care anymore.

Have there been any bad reviews of the novel "Thrawn"?

 

[kirk55555]

Have there been any bad reviews of the novel "Thrawn"?

There weren't many bad reviews for Lost Stars, and I consider that to be complete garbage. I'm not a "review hater/basher" in 99% of cases, but with Star Wars books I generally don't trust them, especially in the new canon. Outside of some criticism for Aftermath, it seems like if anything gets criticized its the good books (Tarkin got a few complaints, and Lords of the Sith I seem to remember getting piled on by many reviewers).

Anyway, I went to the library for a bit and now I'm holding the accursed book. In a bit I'll see if its bad enough to melt flesh like the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, or if I'll just have to resist throwing it in the trash. I'm predicting 15 pages until I get completely fed up. I just picked it up and flipped through without really reading, and one thing I noticed is a lot of names but almost no Thrawn. It will actually be hilarious if he barely shows up in his own book. That would probably be the best case scenario. The worst case is half the book being taken up by some terrible made up character who is almost as bad as the character the book calls Thrawn. Will either of these things happen? Or will neither? Will I even be able to tell before I give up trying to read it in pure frustration? Its goping to be an interesting, and probably infuriating, experience.

Unrelated to "Thrawn", am I the only one who misses the old EU practice of starting books with a character list? A lot of the old EU books would have a page listing the major players in the book, or at least most of them. It was a nice feature which the new canon books don't seem to have.

 

[fireproof78]

I never liked character lists in books. For me, it made them feel like a play.

 

[WebLurker]

Whatever. I seriously question how anyone over the age of 14 can read more then ten pages of Lost Stars without wanting to burn the damn thing, but that's how opinion works. There are people who'd rather watch grass grow then read a Star wars book at all.

We all have our own quirks of what makes things likable or unlikeable for us.

Being a pro doesn't mean the person is good at what they do. Even if they are financially successful, they may still be pretty bad (see Michael Bay and Stephanie Meyer as relevant examples).

Still, wouldn't they have more credibility than an armchair director fan who never produced a TV show or wrote professionally?

Based on what Rebels has done and reviews of his book, I don't believe there is any credible reason to believe he's not either lying to toe the line or just doesn't care anymore.

See, here we go again. Your opinion vs. the man's consistent statements. Not a very compelling argument.

Well, his opinion on the character was relevant when he was writing the character. He hasn't written the real Thrawn in years, and certainly didn't do it in the new book.

Since he's writing new books now, I'd say his opinion's still relevant. As to if he wrote something that you like, read the dumb thing first, why not?

There is no way in hell Filoni added Thrawn because he liked the character. He doesn't. He does not like thrawn, and he doesn't respect the character or the stories the character was in. No one, no matter how incompetent, would do such a bad job with the character. There are absolutely no similarities between the character of thrawn in the original books and the one on the cartoon except the name, the look and the fact that they both like art. Besides that, the Rebels Thrawn has about as much in common with the old Thrawn as he does with, say, Admiral Daala or Warlord Zsinji (except those were two generally decent character). They're all imperial characters who are/were admirals in the imperial navy. That's about as deep a connection the two thrawns have as well, outside those three things I mentioned.

All in your subjective opinion (which I can't for the life of me reconcile with what I've seen of the show).

Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Ring a bell? That's what I'm feeling here.

(Also, in what world was Daala a good character?)

If Filoni liked Thrawn, he would have actually used the character. he could have been a lot more accurate with thrawn, even on a kids show. But, he just didn't care. Filoni was just stealing things from the old EU like he tends to do, and Thrawn was a very noticeable, well liked part of the old EU so he was ripe to exploit. So that's what Filoni did, exploit parts of the character for whatever terrible character he was already planning to put on the show. Why make up your own character when you can save effort and try to get a bit of extra money/views off of the nostalgia of SW fans.

I seriously doubt Thrawn is that popular. We're also calling a man a liar just because you don't like the show he makes. That's called "bad reasoning." It's basic critical thinking, people.

Still far superior to Rebels or 80% of the non comic/movie new canon, and I say that as someone who dislikes most of it, outright hates parts of it and only rereads the mandalorian sections.

I don't think we have any common ground on that.

Have there been any bad reviews of the novel "Thrawn"?

I haven't seen many, if any. Amazon customer reviews are an average of 4.7 out of 5 (the worst were a 3-star reviews). goodreads.com compiled a 4.53 out of 5 (99% of users liked it). Most of the other reviews I saw were very positive, with lots of different reviews expressing the opinion that Zahn wrote Thrawn as well as he ever did. So, yeah, I think it's safe to say that the book is a hit overall.

Anyway, I went to the library for a bit and now I'm holding the accursed book. In a bit I'll see if its bad enough to melt flesh like the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, or if I'll just have to resist throwing it in the trash. I'm predicting 15 pages until I get completely fed up. I just picked it up and flipped through without really reading, and one thing I noticed is a lot of names but almost no Thrawn. It will actually be hilarious if he barely shows up in his own book. That would probably be the best case scenario.

It's not a "best-case scenario."

The worst case is half the book being taken up by some terrible made up character who is almost as bad as the character the book calls Thrawn. Will either of these things happen? Or will neither? Will I even be able to tell before I give up trying to read it in pure frustration? Its goping to be an interesting, and probably infuriating, experience.

Hope you have "fun," whatever that means to you.

Unrelated to "Thrawn", am I the only one who misses the old EU practice of starting books with a character list? A lot of the old EU books would have a page listing the major players in the book, or at least most of them. It was a nice feature which the new canon books don't seem to have.

I liked having it for reference while reading, but sometimes they spoiled surprises.

 

[kirk55555]

Still, wouldn't they have more credibility than an armchair director fan who never produced a TV show or wrote professionally?

Absolutely not. being a professional gives him no advantage in saying whther something is good or not, and frankly its a bit ridiculous to say it would. After all, almost every bad tv show, book or movie that is officially released was made by a professional.

(Also, in what world was Daala a good character?)

She was fine, in my opinion, until the Fate of the Jedi. series. I liked a lot of that series, but Daala was terrible there. Still, her earlier appearances ranged from ok to pretty good.

I seriously doubt Thrawn is that popular. We're also calling a man a liar just because you don't like the show he makes. That's called "bad reasoning." It's basic critical thinking, people.

When it comes to the old EU he was probably one of the, if not the, most popular characters. Definitely the most popular EU exclusive villain. Filoni steals a lot of stuff from the EU, and Thrawn would be a big target for him.

It's not a "best-case scenario."

It really is. The less of Filoni's "Thrawn" I have to read, the farther I'll get in the book.

I liked having it for reference while reading, but sometimes they spoiled surprises.

Eh, I don't think surprise characters matter much in books, and I'd lose the surprise to be able to check on names of the new characters when I need a cheat sheet (which is rare, but sometimes happens when they have really weird names).

On a related note, I've started "Thrawn". I'm farther along then I expected, but mostly because Thrawn is barely in it. The book is mostly about a boring cadet at this point. It does have one big spoiler-free problem, though. Zahn has thought up a new "chuck Wendig" level gimmick for the writing of the book, and its annoying. If Thrawn is in the scene you don't hear his thoughts directly (since the cadet is always in the scene and he's apparently the main character of the book) but the book is constantly narrating Thrawn's observations, and its off putting and frequntly confusing. Here's a completely made up example (the italics are how the book shows his observations):

"Hello, mesa Jar Jar Binks" the Gungan said. The creature blinked slowly, his body slouched and he moved awkwardly. "Mesa your humble servant". A large smile spreads across his face, and his pupils dilate. The gungan moved across the room, and shook Thrawn's hand. The hand is cold and clammy, and the alien's neck muscles tense as the hands shake.

It is the most invasive writing gimmick i've seen in awhile. I get it, Thrawn is constantly observing things. I don't need every inane detail of the slight movements of people's faces. It doesn't make this version of Thrawn impressive, it makes me annoyed at the writer. Well, more annoyed, and in a way I didn't expect.

Besides that, the book is hard to judge. There hasn't been much of Thrawn.

Spoiler: Thrawn novel

He shows up dressed as a caveman in animal skins and only a moderate grasp of basic. He out thinks all the imperials on the planet when they meet him, but its all very crude for Thrawn and feels more like MacGuyver then something the real Thrawn would do. He learns basic fast (thankfully),

but he mostly spends his scenes after his introduction making the previously mentioned irritating observations in his head instead of talking and we get no actual inner monologue from him so far. The cadet character is nothing special so far. I'm just at a scene where

Spoiler: Thrawn

"Thrawn" is meeting Palpatine and mentions meeting Anakin Skywalker, something Palpatine is apparently already aware of.

So nothing especially bad or good so far (except the stupid gimmick Zahn is using with Thrawn's observations), but we still need to get more scenes with Thrawn to really judge. I'm leaning toward him being a secondary character and the boring cadet being the main character, which would be annoying but since I don't want to read about this "Thrawn" anyway even a bland character like the cadet is probably a better choice for main character.

 

[fireproof78]

Absolutely not. being a professional gives him no advantage in saying whther something is good or not, and frankly its a bit ridiculous to say it would. After all, almost every bad tv show, book or movie that is officially released was made by a professional.

The same reason why most sports commentators are former athletes, and fans are referred to as "armchair quaterbacks." Experience. I will take Filioni's and Zahn's experience and opinion over many fans because fans are not always right and do not always have the experience of crafting the stories and worlds they enjoy or take for granted.

 

[Ithekro]

From what I understand the beginning of the "Thawn" novel is almost the same at the short story "Mist Encounter", written by Zahn from the Star Wars Adventure Journal connected with old West End Games Star Wars Roleplaying Game in 1995.

 

[Tuskin38]

From what I understand the beginning of the "Thawn" novel is almost the same at the short story "Mist Encounter", written by Zahn from the Star Wars Adventure Journal connected with old West End Games Star Wars Roleplaying Game in 1995.

That is what I gathered from reading the Summary of it on Wookieepedia. A few of the character have the same names as well.

 

[kirk55555]

The same reason why most sports commentators are former athletes, and fans are referred to as "armchair quaterbacks." Experience. I will take Filioni's and Zahn's experience and opinion over many fans because fans are not always right and do not always have the experience of crafting the stories and worlds they enjoy or take for granted.

Well that's your prerogative. I personally don't agree with that line of reasoning at all

 

[fireproof78]

Well that's your prerogative. I personally don't agree with that line of reasoning at all

Indeed.
Regardless, even if I don't agree with a particular writer or artist's work, or I don't feel any hated, regard them as idiots, or deride them as people. Even though I don't agree or like the Prequel Trilogy, you will not find me calling him an idiot. I can disagree with him without hatred.

 

[WebLurker]

Absolutely not. being a professional gives him no advantage in saying whther something is good or not, and frankly its a bit ridiculous to say it would. After all, almost every bad tv show, book or movie that is officially released was made by a professional.

Okay, I don't know what to tell you. I have no idea where you're coming from. If you don't like it, okay, no shame in that, but your irrational need pin the blame on the people who made the stuff is mind-boggling. Is it really too hard to accept that they may have a different idea of what makes Star Wars good than you do?

She was fine, in my opinion, until the Fate of the Jedi. series. I liked a lot of that series, but Daala was terrible there. Still, her earlier appearances ranged from ok to pretty good.

I don't know, she came across as a rage-driven incompetent from day one with little depth. Just my two cents.

When it comes to the old EU he was probably one of the, if not the, most popular characters. Definitely the most popular EU exclusive villain. Filoni steals a lot of stuff from the EU, and Thrawn would be a big target for him.

Top spot Legends character, to be sure, but you do have to take into account that fans who read the tie-ins are in the minority. To use a Star Trek analogy, saying Thrawn is a huge Star Wars character would be like arguing that Gul Dukat or the Dominion are big name Star Trek villains. They may be prominent within their own circles of the franchise, but don't have the recognition or pop culture status that Khan Singh or the Borg do.

Also, remember that they wanted to use Thrawn specifically, so popularity is not the only reason they put him on the TV show.

It really is. The less of Filoni's "Thrawn" I have to read, the farther I'll get in the book.

You misunderstood me. What I meant was: Thrawn is in most of the book, so you will have to read a lot about him." Look, you pick up a book called "Thrawn," what would you expect? (Okay, true, the Tron movies weren't about Tron himself, but "Flynn" and "Flynn: Legacy" don't have the same ring.)

Eh, I don't think surprise characters matter much in books, and I'd lose the surprise to be able to check on names of the new characters when I need a cheat sheet (which is rare, but sometimes happens when they have really weird names).

Okay, sure.

On a related note, I've started "Thrawn". I'm farther along then I expected, but mostly because Thrawn is barely in it. The book is mostly about a boring cadet at this point. It does have one big spoiler-free problem, though. Zahn has thought up a new "chuck Wendig" level gimmick for the writing of the book, and its annoying. If Thrawn is in the scene you don't hear his thoughts directly (since the cadet is always in the scene and he's apparently the main character of the book) but the book is constantly narrating Thrawn's observations, and its off putting and frequntly confusing. Here's a completely made up example (the italics are how the book shows his observations):

"Hello, mesa Jar Jar Binks" the Gungan said. The creature blinked slowly, his body slouched and he moved awkwardly. "Mesa your humble servant". A large smile spreads across his face, and his pupils dilate. The gungan moved across the room, and shook Thrawn's hand. The hand is cold and clammy, and the alien's neck muscles tense as the hands shake.

It is the most invasive writing gimmick i've seen in awhile. I get it, Thrawn is constantly observing things. I don't need every inane detail of the slight movements of people's faces. It doesn't make this version of Thrawn impressive, it makes me annoyed at the writer. Well, more annoyed, and in a way I didn't expect.

Didn't annoy me, but that's me. (There are a few scenes with Thrawn where we get more than the Sherlock scans.)

Besides that, the book is hard to judge. There hasn't been much of Thrawn.

Spoiler: Thrawn novel

He shows up dressed as a caveman in animal skins and only a moderate grasp of basic. He out thinks all the imperials on the planet when they meet him, but its all very crude for Thrawn and feels more like MacGuyver then something the real Thrawn would do. He learns basic fast (thankfully),

but he mostly spends his scenes after his introduction making the previously mentioned irritating observations in his head instead of talking and we get no actual inner monologue from him so far. The cadet character is nothing special so far. I'm just at a scene where

Spoiler: Thrawn

"Thrawn" is meeting Palpatine and mentions meeting Anakin Skywalker, something Palpatine is apparently already aware of.

In regards to the first spoiler, if you read to the end of the book, that opening chapter will make a lot more sense. In regards to the second one, that is elaborated on eventually. At the end of the day, it's up to you how far you go, but there is a reason to push ahead.

So nothing especially bad or good so far (except the stupid gimmick Zahn is using with Thrawn's observations), but we still need to get more scenes with Thrawn to really judge. I'm leaning toward him being a secondary character and the boring cadet being the main character, which would be annoying but since I don't want to read about this "Thrawn" anyway even a bland character like the cadet is probably a better choice for main character.

In all actuality, the use of a secondary character as our primary viewpoint of Thrawn was a time-honored tradition from the Legends novels. In fact, with the little opening quotes at the beginning of chapters and the Sherlock scans, I think this might be the first time we've ever gotten anything from Thrawn's POV.

 

[kirk55555]

Also, remember that they wanted to use Thrawn specifically, so popularity is not the only reason they put him on the TV show.

Filoni wanted to steal him because a character with at least some recongnition, even if its just by big EU fans, is better then making up his own crappy character. Thrawn was only used because Filoni probably learned about him while browsing Wookipedia for stuff to steal, and decided he'll take someone else's much better work, remove everything but the superficial elements, and use it as a paintjob for the crap villain he was already planning.

You misunderstood me. What I meant was: Thrawn is in most of the book, so you will have to read a lot about him." Look, you pick up a book called "Thrawn," what would you expect? (Okay, true, the Tron movies weren't about Tron himself, but "Flynn" and "Flynn: Legacy" don't have the same ring.)p

To be fair, there is absolutely no Thrawn in this book. There is only Filoni's original character that he stuck Thrawn's name and appearance on, so the title is technically true, but a lie in that the entire character is a lie. Also, if the title character isn't the viewpoint character, the book is a lie regardless of the fact that the real Thrawn doesn't appear in any new canon material whatsoever. But, since I don't want to read anything with Filoni's original character he calls Thrawn, the less of him the better it is. I can get through a book about a boring cadet easier then a book about Fake Thrawn.

In regards to the first spoiler, if you read to the end of the book, that opening chapter will make a lot more sense. In regards to the second one, that is elaborated on eventually. At the end of the day, it's up to you how far you go, but there is a reason to push ahead.

The first few pages already explain the first spoiler. I know exactly why Thrawn was where he was and why he was doing what he was doing. the situation was clear, I just expected a bit more dignity, and a bit less

Spoiler: Thrawn

Flintstones when it comes to attire, now I'm just imaging Fake thrawn dressed like a caveman which just makes the whole first section hilarious. He has power generators and other supplies but dresses in animal skins, which makes absolutely no sense but is probably what Fake Thrawn deserves

There is nothing for the ending to change, no twist to the situation. There is also no reason to push ahead, except that I'm morbidly curious to see how long I can get before getting fed up.

In all actuality, the use of a secondary character as our primary viewpoint of Thrawn was a time-honored tradition from the Legends novels. In fact, with the little opening quotes at the beginning of chapters and the Sherlock scans, I think this might be the first time we've ever gotten anything from Thrawn's POV.

Well, its a good thing this is Fake Thrawn, because if real Thrawn had no inner monologue and only thought in inane observations (and did it constantly whenever he was in a scene) I doubt he'd be fondly remembered by anyone.

 

[fireproof78]

Filoni wanted to steal him because a character with at least some recongnition, even if its just by big EU fans, is better then making up his own crappy character. Thrawn was only used because Filoni probably learned about him while browsing Wookipedia for stuff to steal, and decided he'll take someone else's much better work, remove everything but the superficial elements, and use it as a paintjob for the crap villain he was already planning.

The level of malice assumed here is baffling.

 

[tenmei]

Also, if the title character isn't the viewpoint character, the book is a lie regardless of the fact that the real Thrawn doesn't appear in any new canon material whatsoever. But, since I don't want to read anything with Filoni's original character he calls Thrawn, the less of him the better it is. I can get through a book about a boring cadet easier then a book about Fake Thrawn.

I guess we need to have a word with all those Sherlock Holmes books and novels that use Watson as the viewpoint character, if that's the criteria for a book being lie then.