Star Wars Books Thread

[kirk55555]

"New content" is not the only determination of whether a book in a franchise is "good" or not.

Its not, but if old content is taking space away from new content, then its bad. I don't believe a movie should get a novelization, especially if its in a franchise like SW and taking space that could be used with a new story. if you want Rogue One's story, watch the movie. There is no reason to waste a book spot on a novelization of an existing story.

What the heck does "legitimate" even mean? All official tie-ins are approved by the franchise owners. They have the brand name on it. In most cases, they are the official account of the event in question. That has "legitimate" written all over it. (Besides, wasn't one of your complaints that if a YA book covers something, then a GA book won't? That suggests that the YA books are indeed "legitimate," since otherwise, there would be no reason that a GA book could overwrite it.)

No, taking stories from real books doesn't make YA legitimate, it just means that the people in charge of the books don't care about good stories and so don't let the real SW books tell some of the stories they should. Basically, if a SW book is made for a general audience, its legitimate. if its written for a specific group, its worthless and, in my opinion, to be completely ignored as the waste of space it is.

Given that Star Wars is using YA books to establish important details (all we know about Rey's pre-Jakku life comes from YA books, Jyn's starring novel is YA), it seems that LucasFilm doesn't agree with you.

Lucasfilm wants money from the Twilight crowd. I don't consider them to really care about important details. They care about the movies, then use the books, especially the YA books, as a cheap, lazy cash grab. Details about Rey and Jyn's life are either in movies, in GA books, or don't count as far as I'm concerned. The fact that anything about them in YA books is garbage just makes it easier to ignore. But, in the end, if its not in a movie or a GA book, its not important and only "canon" in that no real SW story is going to take the time to overwrite inconsequential side stories written for kids that don't effect the characterization of the characters at all.

First off, what criteria even makes a book good? From what I know, that criteria is not limited to one specific market (and I studied writing in college, so I do know a thing or two about this).

There are a lot of criteria, and it usually changes depending on the individual. One notable one, though, is "Its not a kiddie or YA book".

Since you never read it, I don't think that opinion holds any weight. It's certainly not based on good reasoning.

I don't need to read a book to necessarily have an opinion on it. If its YA, its garbage. Its practically a law of the universe, like gravity.

I'd heard that the second was better than the first. Not very encouraged here.

Some people like it more then me, but I've barely seen it reviewed as more then "readable", so even though not as many people hate it its not like aftermath 2 is getting too much praise

No one said you had to read it, but hating something you haven't read? There's no rationality here.

My hatred of Lost Stars is rational and easy to understand. I hate twilight. The author of Lost Stars has literally one book that isn't a Twilight clone, and that's Star Wars: Bloodlines (and that info comes from looking up her books on her own site). I consider Twilight to be THE core of everything terrible about YA, so a teen angsty romance book by an author of Twilight clone novels is just about the worst SW book possible, and something I logically hate.

That "fact" is an opinion, and since you don't know what the book's content are, it's not a credible one.

Ahsoka is a YA book, so I have a very good idea of what the content is. If not in detail, then in tropes, cliches etc. Plus its a post TCW story influenced by Rebels, it could be GA and it would still be terrible because post TCW Ahsoka is a terrible character.

That's semantics. By definition, Young Jedi Knights is YA, since it was written for a juvenile audience. We can't get around that.

Secondly, you're willing to concede that some YA books don't follow the cliches you like, but won't extend the same courtesy to other stuff? That does not follow. If there can be one exception, there can be more. (Your mantra has been that YA books, by definition, cannot be good, but now you're telling me that some are?!)

nope. I'm saying that Young jedi Knights isn't YA, not in the way they're classified nowadays, at least. There was a time before Twilight and Hunger Games when the YA label wasn't shorthand for angsty teen crap. YJK was made in that time period.

(Finally, your might want to reread those Young Jedi. There were a couple teen romance plot threads in them.)

Teen romance doesn't mean teen characters falling in love, at least as an automatic negative. I'm well aware of Jacen and Tenel Ka having a relationship in those books. Compared to YA romance its much better written and without the drama and tropes of Twilight/Lost Stars/every YA book for the last 10-15 years.

Given that you never read the latter, you can't know that.

Once again: Lost Stars is a YA romance novel written by a woman who made her career writing Twilight clone novels. Compared to that, any normal GA book is a shining jewel of literature.

What do you think they should've done?

Never published YA stuff like Lost Stars, hired better writers and let them make stories more important then the ones they were allowed to do and have them tie into the movies more.

Umm, maybe? I will concede that a Del Rey hardcover is the more prestigious release, but Lost Stars became the fan favorite. I'm not sure either of them were true TFA prequels (which is what we had been lead to believe), but the latter did feel more like a lead into than Aftermath; regardless of which was better, I don't think Aftermath deserved to be in the "Journey to..." series; the connections to TFA were too thin, which I think is partially why it lost the popular vote from fans.

It shouldn't have been in "Journey to...", but it deserved to be there more then Lost Stars.

Why's that?

If RO was a book, the characters could have been fleshed out.

Depends. I don't know for sure what's going to happen, but it could tell the story of the campaign that got him the Grand Admiral's rank, which was described in his first Rebels appearance. As @The Wormhole pointed out, Gov. Pryce is in it. Not sure if that counts? Of course, it's hard to say what's important or not important in connection to Rebels. For example, part of Rogue One's backstory is contained in the show.

There is nothing in Rebels important to RO. Having Saw cameo doesn't mean anything. i'd argue that even TCW isn't important to RO, outside of introducing Saw.

We'll have to see, but since TV Thrawn got the thumbs up from Zahn himself, that does suggest that Zahn sees the two as being compatible. In all honesty, I don't really see any difference between Legends Thrawn and canon Thrawn, but, since the novel has more space to tell the story, it might allow for Thrawn to have more characterization and story time, thus seem less rushed?

The rebels version of thrawn only resembles the real Thrawn in physical appearance. Besides that, Rebels Thrawn is the normal saturday morning cartoon "mastermind villain" with an added appreciation for art because some intern working with Dave Filoni glanced at Thrawn's wookiepeida page (which is more work then Filoni or the Rebels writers have ever put into their show, to be fair).

As you yourself, said, there are exceptions, so we can't say that until the book comes out.

There is no exceptions. If its a real yA book, its trash for the same reasons every YA book is.

As the movie showed, those were the years that shaped Jyn into the person she was by the time we meet her in the movie. That doesn't sound like fluff.

All stories about adult characters in their teen years is fluff. Its just muppet babies in the SW universe, which makes it perfect for YA books.

Maybe they will make one later down the road. I think it depends on how comprehensive Rebel Rising is. If it's a complete biography up till she gets arrested with no gaps for other stories, then I'm going to guess that this's probably it as far as books are concerned. For what it's worth, the sneak peek starts with Jyn being taken to the prison camp the Rebels found her at before going back to when Saw found her as a little girl, so it might go all the way through.

Well, if the YA fluff piece takes away the chance for a real SW book about Jyn, that sucks but fits with Lucasfilm not caring about giving the RO characters any real effort.

That remains to be seen.

If its YA then its garbage, and fluff. There is no "maybe" about it.

Right, and then they'll do a sequel where the son realizes the love of his life murdered his father and tries to get some kind of revenge for the betrayal, but will feel conflicted about doing it, not to mention be unsure how he could, since there's no one alive! Angst, brooding, and more angst to keep things rolling!

If they had even hinted at Krennic having a kid in the movie, then I'd say this is a literal description of the book's plot.

Seriously, though, I wouldn't worry about Jyn getting or wanting a boyfriend in the story. First of all, numerous sources have stated that being abandoned by her father and then by the man who adopted her left her with little capability to trust people, so I have a hard time imagining that working with a relationship. Also, for what it's worth, the Rogue One novelization did establish that during her teens a boy her age (a fellow Partisan) tried to kiss her. She didn't let him. So it doesn't sound like she was looking for companionship during the book's timeframe. I'm actually not sure she was ever looking for one. I know some people think that she and Cassian Andor were starting to fall for each other in the movie, but I didn't see that and the novelization didn't really suggest anything on her side of things.

For what it's worth, the blurb makes it sound more like the book will cover the events that lead to Saw cutting her lose to protect her or some other kind of problem rather than her love life.

Its a YA book. There will be romance. the only question is what YA heroine Jyn would be. Only two exist, Bella Swan or...Jennifer Lawrence (I don't know the Hunger Games heroine's name). All YA female protagonists fall into those categories. They'll probably make Jyn into jennifer Lawrence, unless they're completely incompetent (which, being a YA book, they might be). A teen angsty romance is almost assured.

I did think Outbound Flight was kind of weak, personally.

I forgot about that for a second. I thought it was ok, although probably my least favorite Zahn SW book.

 

[Ithekro]

If we consider what Star Wars was in the beginning verses trends today, I'm going to point out something that might give someone a heart attack.

Star Wars is a YA franchise from day one. That was the target audience and has remained so since 1977. That age group was the most heavily effected by the film and are the ones making Star Wars now how they remember it.

 

[JD]

^Yeah, Star Wars has never really gone beyond the YA level of content, and to be honest stories of most of the movies would fit in perfectly with the major of YA stories.
Kirk55555, you really should try and be at least a little bit open minded about this stuff, because you're missing out on some great stuff. Even if the books do have icky, yucky, romance cooties they still tell interesting stories, and get into some pretty deep themes. I've read all three Hunger Games ooks, Under The Never Sky, Immortal Instruments: City of Bones, and the first two Maze Runner books, and while each does feature romance elements to some degree, there is a lot more to them than just that.

 

[WebLurker]

Its not, but if old content is taking space away from new content, then its bad. I don't believe a movie should get a novelization, especially if its in a franchise like SW and taking space that could be used with a new story. if you want Rogue One's story, watch the movie. There is no reason to waste a book spot on a novelization of an existing story.

I think the Rouge One novel justified it's existence. Besides, novelizations do offer more insight into the story, they make nice collector's items, they're great for when you aren't in a position to see a movie, etc. I like having both.

No, taking stories from real books doesn't make YA legitimate...

We don't have the authority to say what's legitimate or not, LucasFilm does, and no amount of whining on our part changes that. They've said the YA stuff is legitimate, then it's on equal footing with the "GA " novels. Case closed. (We don't have to like specific stories, but that's something else.)

it just means that the people in charge of the books don't care about good stories and so don't let the real SW books tell some of the stories they should.

We've been getting a steady stream of Del Rey novels, most of which are filling in gaps in the timeline. Besides, most of the "YA" stuff are things like "children's" picture books, readers, activity books, non-canon stuff, and like things, with a few reference materials, chapter books, novels, etc. The amount of serious canon, prose fiction is actually a smaller part of the output. The disparity is not as bad as you think.

Basically, if a SW book is made for a general audience, its legitimate.

We don't have the right to make that call.

if its written for a specific group, its worthless and, in my opinion, to be completely ignored as the waste of space it is.

Huh.

Lucasfilm wants money from the Twilight crowd.

I think they want everyone's money.

I don't consider them to really care about important details.

The existence of the Story Group would argue against that.

They care about the movies...

That is the core of the Star Wars franchise; everything else revolves around that.

...then use the books, especially the YA books, as a cheap, lazy cash grab.

Considering the quality put into everything and how well the new canon is constructed, I think not.

Details about Rey and Jyn's life are either in movies, in GA books, or don't count as far as I'm concerned.

That's not how the Force works.

The fact that anything about them in YA books is garbage just makes it easier to ignore.

Since you haven't even read them, that's not a valid argument.

But, in the end, if its not in a movie or a GA book, its not important and only "canon" in that no real SW story is going to take the time to overwrite inconsequential side stories written for kids that don't effect the characterization of the characters at all.

Since Rogue One used Rebels as part of the backdrop, and most of the movie's backstory was worked into all the tie-ins as a joint process, it appears that the Powers That Be don't agree with you.

There are a lot of criteria, and it usually changes depending on the individual.

Fair enough.

One notable one, though, is "Its not a kiddie or YA book".

You really don't understand literary criticism, do you?

I don't need to read a book to necessarily have an opinion on it.

True, but it won't be an accurate one.

If its YA, its garbage. Its practically a law of the universe, like gravity.

To quote the Lying Cat: "Liar."

My hatred of Lost Stars is rational and easy to understand. I hate twilight. The author of Lost Stars has literally one book that isn't a Twilight clone, and that's Star Wars: Bloodlines (and that info comes from looking up her books on her own site).

Really good book, too.

I consider Twilight to be THE core of everything terrible about YA, so a teen angsty romance book by an author of Twilight clone novels is just about the worst SW book possible, and something I logically hate.

Okay, here's the problem, you think that "YA" equals "Twilight." That's not how it works. Not everything written for teens and younger is like that. You cannot put everything into one box.

Ahsoka is a YA book, so I have a very good idea of what the content is.

You do not, and since I'm the only one who's read it, it's my work we'll be trusting (as Capt. Jack Sparrow would say).

If not in detail, then in tropes, cliches etc.

There weren't any.

Plus its a post TCW story influenced by Rebels, it could be GA and it would still be terrible because post TCW Ahsoka is a terrible character.

I think Ahsoka was a decent post-TCW character, but this would be a fair reason to not want to read it. (However, the novel is more about TCW-era Ahsoka more than anything.)

nope. I'm saying that Young jedi Knights isn't YA, not in the way they're classified nowadays, at least.

How you classify them (which has nothing to do with actual YA books). It's still semantics.

There was a time before Twilight and Hunger Games when the YA label wasn't shorthand for angsty teen crap. YJK was made in that time period.

"Angsty teen crap" is one genre. YA is an age range of primary target audience. There is a difference.

Teen romance doesn't mean teen characters falling in love, at least as an automatic negative. I'm well aware of Jacen and Tenel Ka having a relationship in those books. Compared to YA romance its much better written and without the drama and tropes of Twilight/Lost Stars/every YA book for the last 10-15 years.

Okay. (FYI, if this's what you're worried about, Lost Stars dodges the bullet.)

Once again: Lost Stars is a YA romance novel written by a woman who made her career writing Twilight clone novels. Compared to that, any normal GA book is a shining jewel of literature.

Once again, I'm telling you (with actual knowledge of what's in the book) that it's not the case.

Never published YA stuff like Lost Stars, hired better writers and let them make stories more important then the ones they were allowed to do and have them tie into the movies more.

Hmm.

It shouldn't have been in "Journey to...", but it deserved to be there more then Lost Stars.

That's not a convincing argument.

If RO was a book, the characters could have been fleshed out.

You'll love the novelization.

There is nothing in Rebels important to RO. Having Saw cameo doesn't mean anything. i'd argue that even TCW isn't important to RO, outside of introducing Saw.

When I get a chance to see the episodes, I can tell you for sure.

The rebels version of thrawn only resembles the real Thrawn in physical appearance.

The eyes were different.

Besides that, Rebels Thrawn is the normal saturday morning cartoon "mastermind villain" with an added appreciation for art because some intern working with Dave Filoni glanced at Thrawn's wookiepeida page (which is more work then Filoni or the Rebels writers have ever put into their show, to be fair).

Not really. The production team put a lot of effort into it. Watch the behind the scenes stuff on the Star Wars website. You may not like what they decide to do, but they do give everything 100%

There is no exceptions. If its a real yA book, its trash for the same reasons every YA book is.

You really don't know this topic, do you?

All stories about adult characters in their teen years is fluff. Its just muppet babies in the SW universe, which makes it perfect for YA books.

Tell that to the X-Men: Evolution cartoon.

Well, if the YA fluff piece takes away the chance for a real SW book about Jyn, that sucks but fits with Lucasfilm not caring about giving the RO characters any real effort.

The tie-ins for Rogue One were pretty good IMHO, a lot better than what we got overall for TFA.

If its YA then its garbage, and fluff. There is no "maybe" about it.

Wrong.

If they had even hinted at Krennic having a kid in the movie, then I'd say this is a literal description of the book's plot.

I was joking. And it actually probably wouldn't since my joke doesn't match the real blurb.

Its a YA book. There will be romance.

Ahsoka didn't. Myth busted.

...the only question is what YA heroine Jyn would be. Only two exist, Bella Swan or...Jennifer Lawrence (I don't know the Hunger Games heroine's name).

I think the heroine Jyn will be closest to is Jyn Erso from the movie Rogue One. I think you've heard of it.

All YA female protagonists fall into those categories.

Not all of them. Been reading a YA right now that has a character who doesn't fit either mold.

They'll probably make Jyn into jennifer Lawrence, unless they're completely incompetent (which, being a YA book, they might be).

We'll know in a few months.

A teen angsty romance is almost assured.

By what? What about Jyn that we know so far would suggest that she had a boyfriend once?

One thing I've noticed is that you seem to want Star Wars to fit you're idea of it, such as adult-targeted stuff only. Star Wars is not an adult franchise only. The movies themselves have fans from kids to adults. By the nature of the beast, it should be a franchise that touches everything from kid to adult materials.

 

[Ithekro]

Basic problem isn't that someone doesn't want to read a book. That's fine. Even give a reason for not liking or reading the book is fine.

It is the spouting of blatant falsehoods that it what gets people annoyed. Saying a book is something that is not and then running with that as a reason to dislike it, just grates people the wrong way, because the reason being given is false. And sometimes even blatantly false, which makes it harder to stand the reasoning. It compels one to make a counter argument because of the blatant falsehood being used as fact to first evade a novel, but then to debase on authors and production people due to said falsehood just goes too far.

 

[Voth commando1]

As I've always said Star Wars is a franchise you start loving as a kid and still appreciate as an adult. The Old EU carried that out beautifully.

If it were simply a kids franchise than TFA wouldn't have been an nostalgia ridden ANH 2.0.

 

[fireproof78]

Basic problem isn't that someone doesn't want to read a book. That's fine. Even give a reason for not liking or reading the book is fine.

It is the spouting of blatant falsehoods that it what gets people annoyed. Saying a book is something that is not and then running with that as a reason to dislike it, just grates people the wrong way, because the reason being given is false. And sometimes even blatantly false, which makes it harder to stand the reasoning. It compels one to make a counter argument because of the blatant falsehood being used as fact to first evade a novel, but then to debase on authors and production people due to said falsehood just goes too far.

The wholesale dismissal of entire categories is baffling to me.

 

[WebLurker]

As I've always said Star Wars is a franchise you start loving as a kid and still appreciate as an adult. The Old EU carried that out beautifully.

The new EU doesn't?

If it were simply a kids franchise than TFA wouldn't have been an nostalgia ridden ANH 2.0.

I don't follow.

 

[Voth commando1]

The new EU doesn't?



I don't follow.

TFA's whole premise and everything was totally designed as an ANH reboot and calling card of nostalgia.

Obviously Disney wanted to reboot the OT but were quite wise in that would have been an historically unpopular idea so they rebooted ANH in everything but name and place.

Secondarily the movie was obviously intended as a nostalgia trip a sense of regaling the magic for those who walked into the theatre in 1977. It wasn't for prequel fans, it wasn't for EU fans and it wasn't even for movie fans it was for rebooting a franchise with fresh pretty faces and appealing to the summer of 77 opening demographic.

 

[The Wormhole]

Secondarily the movie was obviously intended as a nostalgia trip a sense of regaling the magic for those who walked into the theatre in 1977.

Obviously. Never mind the fact that a number of people who went to see the movie probably weren't even born yet in 1977.

 

[Ithekro]

Whatever it was it worked. Two billion plus dollars worth of it worked.

 

[kirk55555]

We don't have the authority to say what's legitimate or not, LucasFilm does, and no amount of whining on our part changes that. They've said the YA stuff is legitimate, then it's on equal footing with the "GA " novels. Case closed. (We don't have to like specific stories, but that's something else.)

Like I said, they "count" as far as Lucasfilm not letting the real Novels specifically go against them, but that doesn't make them legitimate compared to the GA books. They're still badly done fluff and, outside of ruining opportunities for stories to be told in the real books, will never be important to the new canon, anymore then the books for 5 year olds are.

We've been getting a steady stream of Del Rey novels, most of which are filling in gaps in the timeline. Besides, most of the "YA" stuff are things like "children's" picture books, readers, activity books, non-canon stuff, and like things, with a few reference materials, chapter books, novels, etc. The amount of serious canon, prose fiction is actually a smaller part of the output. The disparity is not as bad as you think.

We're still getting less GA books and more YA (and by that I mean the Twilight style YA, not lumping little kids books in that category) then we did in the old EU.

We don't have the right to make that call.

Everyone has the right to decide whether a SW book or category of books is legitimate to them.

I think they want everyone's money.

Based on how they hold back the GA books from doing any story even slightly important, and the fact that they hire a bunch of mediocre writers like Grey and Wendig, they obviously don't see the real SW books as something to put any effort into. Not that any effort gets put into the YA stuff, but they obviously thing cutting down on GA books and churning out YA stuff is where the money is, not telling good stories with the normal books and making money that way.

The existence of the Story Group would argue against that.

The story group only exists to make sure the books don't contradict the movies. That is all they do, and if they cared about anything else then, for example, rebels would be a comletely different (aka higher quality) show, among many other things.

Considering the quality put into everything and how well the new canon is constructed, I think not.

The only quality comes from the writers that can fight through the mediocrity. As for the new canon, its terribly constructed. Actually, that's too generous, because its not constructed.

Since you haven't even read them, that's not a valid argument.

I don't have to eat excrement to know it tastes awful. Same goes with reading YA books.

Since Rogue One used Rebels as part of the backdrop, and most of the movie's backstory was worked into all the tie-ins as a joint process, it appears that the Powers That Be don't agree with you.

All they did was put in a few cameos to appease the few people watching Rebels. No backstory was worked into anything. Take out the 10 seconds of Rebels cameos and all they have is an obscure character from the good Star Wars cartoon to connect RO to anything but the movies.

True, but it won't be an accurate one.

If its about YA, my opinion is accurate. For me, at least. Like I've said, no one has to agree, but my opinion on YA is definitely not wrong.

Really good book, too.

Bloodlines is an example of a bad GA book, and being written by a woman who has written nothing but YA romances before it almost makes it an honorary YA book, to the point where it might be the exception to my "any GA book is better then a YA book" rule.

Okay, here's the problem, you think that "YA" equals "Twilight." That's not how it works. Not everything written for teens and younger is like that. You cannot put everything into one box.

Your right, yA doesn't only equal Twilight. It also sometimes equals "Hunger Games".

You do not, and since I'm the only one who's read it, it's my work we'll be trusting (as Capt. Jack Sparrow would say).

You having read it and me not having read it doesn't matter, its completely irrelevant to my opinion on the garbage YA stuff like Ahsoka. A book which, to be fair, would have been terrible as a GA book because of how Filoni ruined the character post TCW, but made even worse by adding YA junk to it.

I think Ahsoka was a decent post-TCW character, but this would be a fair reason to not want to read it. (However, the novel is more about TCW-era Ahsoka more than anything.)

If it was written after TCW series ended, then its not written like TCW era.

"Angsty teen crap" is one genre. YA is an age range of primary target audience. There is a difference.

Nope. "Angsty teen drama" is literally a synonym for YA. Its just one of the ways to describe all YA books.

Okay. (FYI, if this's what you're worried about, Lost Stars dodges the bullet.)

I don't think that the Star Wars version of Twilight dodged any bullet. Its the most standard YA SW book, and its the Twilight variety. At least the Hunger Games rip offs are somewhat less terrible. Still trash, but anything is better then straight up twilight romance garbage.

Once again, I'm telling you (with actual knowledge of what's in the book) that it's not the case.

Clauia Grey has literally written nothing but blatant Twilight clones, and then SW Bloodlines. That is her whole career, and I have her own website to back that up.

You'll love the novelization.

I'll just watch the movie.

The eyes were different.

Yeah, and a lot worse. But, I said "resembled", not an exact match.

Not really. The production team put a lot of effort into it. Watch the behind the scenes stuff on the Star Wars website. You may not like what they decide to do, but they do give everything 100%

Well, they obviously don't care or put any effort into Rebels, and even if they hypothetically were putting 100% into it then that would probably make them the most incompetent people to have ever worked on a Star wars project, and I'm including prequel era george lucas and the people who made the Star Wars Holiday Special in that statement.

Tell that to the X-Men: Evolution cartoon.

You mean literally the worst released X-Men cartoon that isn't Pryde of the X-Men? The show that I'm pretty sure even the people who created it forgot 5 seconds after it ended and really made no impact on anything?

Wrong.

My opnion on this can't be wrong, at least not for me. Star Wars YA is fluff and garbage. You don't have to agree, but that doesn't make me wrong.

I was joking. And it actually probably wouldn't since my joke doesn't match the real blurb.

I got that you were joking, it just happened to be a joke that's probably a bit too real (unintentionally). I didn't bother to read the blurb, but I'm sure there is a lot of YA junk they can stick in to whatever premise they set up.

Ahsoka didn't. Myth busted.

Then it was a "Hunger games" type YA with the romance less of a focus, but teen angst is teen angst.

I think the heroine Jyn will be closest to is Jyn Erso from the movie Rogue One. I think you've heard of it.

Nope. A YA book can't star the character from Rogue One, because she's not a YA protagonist. They'll have the same name and physical appearance, but in the end the book will just be either Bella or Jennifer Lawrence, or slight variations of them, when it comes to characterization.

We'll know in a few months.

Well, the books "Jyn" will inevitably be like a character from either Hunger Games or twilight, which one it is doesn't really matter at this point.

By what? What about Jyn that we know so far would suggest that she had a boyfriend once?

One thing I've noticed is that you seem to want Star Wars to fit you're idea of it, such as adult-targeted stuff only. Star Wars is not an adult franchise only. The movies themselves have fans from kids to adults. By the nature of the beast, it should be a franchise that touches everything from kid to adult materials.

SW is a general audiences franchise. The GA books aren't adult targeted, they're aimed at a general audience but not written for kids or teens. As for Jyn, its a YA book. she either has a boyfriend or, if the book is progressive enough, a girlfriend or something along those lines. The only thing different will be if her significant other is an alien or not.

The wholesale dismissal of entire categories is baffling to me.

I'm not saying that others can't like that stuff, I'm just giving my opinion on it. Everyone has things they don't like, even entire categories. But, I don't think stating my loathing of country music or spicy food would get so many people annoyed, at least not on a forum like this.

Kirk55555, you really should try and be at least a little bit open minded about this stuff, because you're missing out on some great stuff. Even if the books do have icky, yucky, romance cooties they still tell interesting stories, and get into some pretty deep themes. I've read all three Hunger Games ooks, Under The Never Sky, Immortal Instruments: City of Bones, and the first two Maze Runner books, and while each does feature romance elements to some degree, there is a lot more to them than just that.

Romance is fine. Luke and Mara's romance was done well in my opinion, as was Han and Leia in the books. YA romance being terrible =/= romance in general being bad. I mean, i don't read/watch stories specifically about romance, but having romance be an element of a story isn't automatically good or bad. Besides, YA romance is just one of the terrible things about YA books. The YA angst and drama, along with its various tropes and cliches they have are big elements of them being terrible, along with them being written for a very specific, and young, demographic.

 

[Voth commando1]

Like I said, they "count" as far as Lucasfilm not letting the real Novels specifically go against them, but that doesn't make them legitimate compared to the GA books. They're still badly done fluff and, outside of ruining opportunities for stories to be told in the real books, will never be important to the new canon, anymore then the books for 5 year olds are.



We're still getting less GA books and more YA (and by that I mean the Twilight style YA, not lumping little kids books in that category) then we did in the old EU.



Everyone has the right to decide whether a SW book or category of books is legitimate to them.



Based on how they hold back the GA books from doing any story even slightly important, and the fact that they hire a bunch of mediocre writers like Grey and Wendig, they obviously don't see the real SW books as something to put any effort into. Not that any effort gets put into the YA stuff, but they obviously thing cutting down on GA books and churning out YA stuff is where the money is, not telling good stories with the normal books and making money that way.



The story group only exists to make sure the books don't contradict the movies. That is all they do, and if they cared about anything else then, for example, rebels would be a comletely different (aka higher quality) show, among many other things.



The only quality comes from the writers that can fight through the mediocrity. As for the new canon, its terribly constructed. Actually, that's too generous, because its not constructed.



I don't have to eat excrement to know it tastes awful. Same goes with reading YA books.



All they did was put in a few cameos to appease the few people watching Rebels. No backstory was worked into anything. Take out the 10 seconds of Rebels cameos and all they have is an obscure character from the good Star Wars cartoon to connect RO to anything but the movies.



If its about YA, my opinion is accurate. For me, at least. Like I've said, no one has to agree, but my opinion on YA is definitely not wrong.



Bloodlines is an example of a bad GA book, and being written by a woman who has written nothing but YA romances before it almost makes it an honorary YA book, to the point where it might be the exception to my "any GA book is better then a YA book" rule.



Your right, yA doesn't only equal Twilight. It also sometimes equals "Hunger Games".



You having read it and me not having read it doesn't matter, its completely irrelevant to my opinion on the garbage YA stuff like Ahsoka. A book which, to be fair, would have been terrible as a GA book because of how Filoni ruined the character post TCW, but made even worse by adding YA junk to it.



If it was written after TCW series ended, then its not written like TCW era.



Nope. "Angsty teen drama" is literally a synonym for YA. Its just one of the ways to describe all YA books.



I don't think that the Star Wars version of Twilight dodged any bullet. Its the most standard YA SW book, and its the Twilight variety. At least the Hunger Games rip offs are somewhat less terrible. Still trash, but anything is better then straight up twilight romance garbage.



Clauia Grey has literally written nothing but blatant Twilight clones, and then SW Bloodlines. That is her whole career, and I have her own website to back that up.



I'll just watch the movie.



Yeah, and a lot worse. But, I said "resembled", not an exact match.




Well, they obviously don't care or put any effort into Rebels, and even if they hypothetically were putting 100% into it then that would probably make them the most incompetent people to have ever worked on a Star wars project, and I'm including prequel era george lucas and the people who made the Star Wars Holiday Special in that statement.



You mean literally the worst released X-Men cartoon that isn't Pryde of the X-Men? The show that I'm pretty sure even the people who created it forgot 5 seconds after it ended and really made no impact on anything?



My opnion on this can't be wrong, at least not for me. Star Wars YA is fluff and garbage. You don't have to agree, but that doesn't make me wrong.



I got that you were joking, it just happened to be a joke that's probably a bit too real (unintentionally). I didn't bother to read the blurb, but I'm sure there is a lot of YA junk they can stick in to whatever premise they set up.



Then it was a "Hunger games" type YA with the romance less of a focus, but teen angst is teen angst.



Nope. A YA book can't star the character from Rogue One, because she's not a YA protagonist. They'll have the same name and physical appearance, but in the end the book will just be either Bella or Jennifer Lawrence, or slight variations of them, when it comes to characterization.



Well, the books "Jyn" will inevitably be like a character from either Hunger Games or twilight, which one it is doesn't really matter at this point.




SW is a general audiences franchise. The GA books aren't adult targeted, they're aimed at a general audience but not written for kids or teens. As for Jyn, its a YA book. she either has a boyfriend or, if the book is progressive enough, a girlfriend or something along those lines. The only thing different will be if her significant other is an alien or not.



I'm not saying that others can't like that stuff, I'm just giving my opinion on it. Everyone has things they don't like, even entire categories. But, I don't think stating my loathing of country music or spicy food would get so many people annoyed, at least not on a forum like this.



Romance is fine. Luke and Mara's romance was done well in my opinion, as was Han and Leia in the books. YA romance being terrible =/= romance in general being bad. I mean, i don't read/watch stories specifically about romance, but having romance be an element of a story isn't automatically good or bad. Besides, YA romance is just one of the terrible things about YA books. The YA angst and drama, along with its various tropes and cliches they have are big elements of them being terrible, along with them being written for a very specific, and young, demographic.

The Old EU had important stuff actually happen in the books and the books were more adult in tone, and the authors had other works to their credit.

 

[kirk55555]

The Old EU had important stuff actually happen in the books and the books were more adult in tone, and the authors had other works to their credit.

Yep. I love the old EU, it will always be what I consider "THE" SW universe. But, I enjoy the new movies a lot, and some of the new books have been good. I'm not against the new canon, but it definitely has problems I can't ignore, and what it focuses its time and resources on are all screwed up, along with how badly it holds back its GA writers.

 

[Voth commando1]

The NuCanon books exist to fill slots in the timeline and hand out author contracts.

Bloodline and just about every other NuCanon novel is just a placeholder for the movies.

That's because Disney and the Story Group want the movies and any possible tv shows at front and centre. The books will never hold any significance again.

 

[JD]

Wow, the amount of wrongness in this thread has gone up to almost painful levels.

 

[Voth commando1]

Wow, the amount of wrongness in this thread has gone up to almost painful levels.

What exactly do you disagree with? What inaccuracies have been stated? Has someone said something offensive?

 

[Ithekro]

Your right, yA doesn't only equal Twilight. It also sometimes equals "Hunger Games".

Which is again, untrue.

Painfully untrue. Please stop spouting complete and utter untruths. It is painful.

SW is a general audiences franchise. The GA books aren't adult targeted, they're aimed at a general audience but not written for kids or teens. As for Jyn, its a YA book. she either has a boyfriend or, if the book is progressive enough, a girlfriend or something along those lines. The only thing different will be if her significant other is an alien or not.

Star Wars...you know, the story of a teenaged farm boy named Luke Skywalker. That was YA material and is to this day.

From Wikipedia:

Themes of Young Adult Fiction
Some issues discussed in young adult literature include: friendship, love, race, money, divorce, relationships within families. "The culture that surrounds and absorbs young adults plays a huge role in their lives. Young adult literature explores themes important and crucial to adolescence such as relationships to authority figures, peer pressure and ensuing experimentations, issues of diversity as it relates to gender, sociocultural, and/or socioeconomic status. Primarily, the focus is centered on a young lead character and the reader experiences emotions, situations, and the like through this character and is able to see how these problems/situations are resolved. It also needs to play a significant role in how we approach this group and the books we offer them to read". Reading about issues that adolescents can relate to allows them to identify with a particular character, and creates a sense of security when experiencing something that is going on within their lives. "Whether you call them archetypes or stereotypes, there are certain experiences and certain kinds of people that are common to adolescents. Reading about it may help a young person validate his or her own experience and make some kind of meaning out of it" (Blasingame, 12). April Dawn Wells enumerates seventeen common traits of young adult novels: "friendship, getting into trouble, interest in the opposite sex, money, divorce, single parents, remarriage, problems with parents, grandparents, younger siblings, concern over grades/school, popularity, puberty, race, death, neighborhood, and job/working".


How many of those would you say Star Wars covers in the first film?

 

[kirk55555]

Which is again, untrue.
Painfully untrue. Please stop spouting complete and utter untruths. It is painful.

I stated my opinion. Its not "untrue" or wrong, although you don't have to agree with it. In my opinion, Twilight and Hunger games reccomend the only two types of YA stuff, with some minor variations but nothing that takes a YA book too far away from those. Of course, I could also classify it as "Teen angst focused on romance" and "teen angst with a protagonist that actually does something and isn't quite as much about romance", but that's kind of long. Not all "Hunger games" YA is dystopian and not all "Twilight" books have a main character that is exactly like Bella. But, they're helpful labels for the two types of YA that are around nowadays.

Star Wars...you know, the story of a teenaged farm boy named Luke Skywalker. That was YA material and is to this day.

19 is barely "teenaged", and its definitely at the "adult" stage. Plus, being about a teen doesn't automatically make it YA. It was also 1977, long before YA became the thing it is today. So, no, SW is not YA, and neither is the premise. The main characters also don't fit into that category.

 

[Ithekro]

YA equals Young Adult. The range is 12 - 20 usually speaking. From Luke's perspective, he is dealing his guardians. Trying to have fun with friends that are moving away. Gaining interest in someone of the opposite sex (Leia), friendship with Han has the story continues, Getting into trouble with the Empire over two droids (at first), Death with Obi-wan Kenobi as well as his aunt and uncle. He's looking at going to the Academy, but his work on the farm is keeping him home. That's seven of the seventeen common traits of a young adult novel.

It is Luke's story after all.