Star Wars Books Thread

[Voth commando1]

So the books thread-I hope I'm not alone in expressing this opinion but I was devastated by the August 2012 announcement of Disney's buyout absolutely felt terrible leaving TFA and miss the old eu with all the intensity of a lover who sees their beloved fall off a cliff-I was heartbroken in April 2014 as you can probably imagine.

I love the Vong, Traitor, the Yevetha, Darth Krayt, Xendor, Lumiya, Hapes, Alsakan, The Abominor, Jaina, Jacen, Vergere, Turr Phennir, The Chiss, the falleen, Deliah Blue, Darth Zannah, Darth Ruin, Kyle Katarn, Thrackan Sal-Solo, the Sith species, the Nagai, Zekk, Demigod Luke Skywalker, Prince Isolder, Exar Kun, N'kata Del Gormo, Revan, Naga Sadow, Nom Anor, the killiks, Beldorion, Darth Wyrrrlok, Alema Rar, the Fels, Danni Quee, Shatterpoint, crazy corellians, scheming Bothans, Borsk Fey'la, and God help me even Waru.

I just miss the EU-I want it back. (Begins sobbing and wailing till my tears are drenched in salt and my face is as wet as if it were a storm)

I just want it back.

 

[Ithekro]

They are all still there.

 

[Reverend]

^You'd think by the way some fans carry on that Disney went all 'Fahrenheit 451' on the EU.

News flash kiddies: my copies of 'Heir to the Empire', 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye', the 'Tales of the Jedi' TBDs and KoTOR are all still on my various shelves where I left them. It matters not one whit to me that they're not in continuity with the movies, because they never were. Deal with it.

Anyway, the way the EU was going near the end, it was a mercy killing. They'd clearly long run out of good ideas.

 

[Mr Light]

I dearly loved the EU but I was fine with the reboot.

Trust me, five years from now they'll be releasing new novels set in the EU continuity. They're just in the Disney Vault for a little

 

[Set Harth]

It matters not one whit to me that they're not in continuity with the movies, because they never were.

Random people on the internet may claim this every day, but it's not true. Star Wars did not use the same system as Star Trek. The books were canon before they weren't. This was expressed to the general public and also to authors. It was the franchise's position at that point. That was the whole point of decanonizing them, which wouldn't have been necessary if they were never canon.

 

[Reverend]

I dearly loved the EU but I was fine with the reboot.

Trust me, five years from now they'll be releasing new novels set in the EU continuity. They're just in the Disney Vault for a little

What I'd like to see them do at some point is resurrect the old 'Infinities' imprint. For those unfamiliar it's basically the Star Wars equivalent of DC's 'Elseworlds' and Marvel's 'What If' comic books. Some were pretty good (though admittedly some were bloody awful.)

I'd particularly like to see a "what if Windu killed Palpatine" story as that has all kinds of wide ranging potential, like a galactic civil war where the Jedi weren't wiped out, but schismed and picked sides. Where Luke and Leia were raised together by a still living Padme.

Or how about a "what if Obi-Wan was killed and Qui Gon lived?" How different would things have gone had Anakin been trained by Qui Gon? Would Qui Gon really have been tempted to join Dooku?

There's all kinds of fun stories they could explore without needing to be concerned with continuity.

 

[The Wormhole]

Sloane, based on her own inner dialog, has no problem with killing the average worker during Vidian's tour of the various mining operations. She doesn't even really care about

Spoiler: A New Dawn

blowing up the moon and hurting the planet, she

she just seems to care what the Emperor thinks of doing that. Now, would she, for example, blow up Alderaan? I don't know. But she definitely considers the average person, especially on a more downtrodden/poorer world like the one in A New Dawn, to be completely worthless and their lives and deaths don't mean anything, outside of how it could effect the Empire. She's very definitely evil, she just might be on a different level then, say, Tarkin. She probably would argue against killing what she counted as "important" citizens, people living on the higher levels of Coruscant, for example. But she doesn't care about the lives of people in general, and that does make her evil. She probably wouldn't start a plan that lead to mass killings for no reason, but she certainly doesn't have anything against stuff like that if it lines up with what she thinks (or can be convinced) needs to be done.

It has been awhile since I read A New Dawn, so I forgot that aspect of things. I was basing my comments on the Aftermath novels where Slaone begins soul searching and questioning if the Empire is right. Of course, this does come after the Empire suffers crippling blows and she could just be reacting to the fact she's now on the losing side. Still, she seems closer to the Piett/Veers type of Imperial officer than the Tarkin/Motti gang.

When it comes to the Empire, I get how people could be duped into joining. But, if the stay in long enough and advance, they become just as bad as the worst imperial officers. The Empire does nothing to hide its evil, and the vast majority of its military is involved, either directly or by just not giving a crap. Its the same in the new canon as it was in the EU, and that's fine. Not every bad guy group needs to be a complex group, sometimes good vs evil is fine. Not every conflict needs shades of grey, and especially on an overall level like The Empire vs The Rebels.

I suppose, I just have always liked the idea that that although the leaders of the Empire are evil, the military itself is just an instrument used by evil and not necessarily evil itself.

Trust me, five years from now they'll be releasing new novels set in the EU continuity. They're just in the Disney Vault for a little

I've heard people go on about "why doesn't Disney just allow new novels in Legends continuity to be published?" At first I thought it was just the usual "They decanonised the EU! Wahh!" moaning, but I now that you mention they could theoretically do something like that several years from now, I wonder if that is in the plans? Sure would explain why they've gone to the trouble of reprinting non-canon novels just to stick the "Legends" banner on them.

Would Qui Gon really have been tempted to join Dooku?

That's something I've thought about over the years, basically ever since Dooku claimed it in AOTC. I'm not really sure though, while Qui-Gon was definitely something of an outsider among the Jedi, he was still devout to the Jedi Order's ideals, or at least the ways of the Light Side of the Force. He definitely wouldn't have willingly sided with the Sith though I'm not sure where he would have been on the Separatist issue. Aside from Dooku and Ventress, I don't really know of many Jedi or former Jedi who sided with the Separatists anyway, but if Qui-Gon really did have frustrations with the Senate as Dooku alluded to, maybe he would have developed some sympathy for them?

 

[Reverend]

That's something I've thought about over the years, basically ever since Dooku claimed it in AOTC. I'm not really sure though, while Qui-Gon was definitely something of an outsider among the Jedi, he was still devout to the Jedi Order's ideals, or at least the ways of the Light Side of the Force. He definitely wouldn't have willingly sided with the Sith though I'm not sure where he would have been on the Separatist issue. Aside from Dooku and Ventress, I don't really know of many Jedi or former Jedi who sided with the Separatists anyway, but if Qui-Gon really did have frustrations with the Senate as Dooku alluded to, maybe he would have developed some sympathy for them?

Well, there was also Barris, Krell and Voss who all for various reasons turned on the Jedi and the Republic.

But yeah, I doubt Qui Gon would have fallen either, but perhaps with him still around Dooku could have been redeemed or not fallen at all? There's all kinds of things that could have played out differently, not least of which his training with the Priestesses.

 

[WebLurker]

Well, I did clarify that I understand how people could be duped into joining the imperial military. But if they spend enough time in the service then its evil really has to be obvious. So, if they don't leave fairly quickly once they're in normal service they're either the most naive person in the galaxy or evil. Its hard to see willingly serving in a service they know doesn't mind murdering large amounts of innocent people as something a good person would do.

Sorry, must've missed that. The Lost Stars novel actually has a character ask that question, too.

As for Lost Stars, my opinion on that book has started enough arguments Suffice it to say I don't read YA books, and so I will never read Lost Stars.

Lost Stars is really not a YA book, just marketed as such, but if you don't want to read it, okay.

I also said that about A new dawn, but it ended up coming in the big book set of two novels I got, so it was right there to read. I definitely won't be buying Lost Stars, and I doubt it will be bundled with a normal SW book like A New Dawn was.

Yeah, I don't think they'll be packaging it with anything soon.

That must have happened after I stopped watching, although my opinion on Rebels ability to do character stuff is well known at this point.

The season two episodes "Wings of the Masters" and "Homecoming" and season three episode "Hera's Heroes" have given us the most info so far.

But in the end, the writer is the writer. It wasn't that much of a book by committee, the writer was the one ultimately responsible for the quality, not Filoni or the story group.

Fair enough.

So the books thread-I hope I'm not alone in expressing this opinion but I was devastated by the August 2012 announcement of Disney's buyout absolutely felt terrible leaving TFA and miss the old eu with all the intensity of a lover who sees their beloved fall off a cliff-I was heartbroken in April 2014 as you can probably imagine.

I love the Vong, Traitor, the Yevetha, Darth Krayt, Xendor, Lumiya, Hapes, Alsakan, The Abominor, Jaina, Jacen, Vergere, Turr Phennir, The Chiss, the falleen, Deliah Blue, Darth Zannah, Darth Ruin, Kyle Katarn, Thrackan Sal-Solo, the Sith species, the Nagai, Zekk, Demigod Luke Skywalker, Prince Isolder, Exar Kun, N'kata Del Gormo, Revan, Naga Sadow, Nom Anor, the killiks, Beldorion, Darth Wyrrrlok, Alema Rar, the Fels, Danni Quee, Shatterpoint, crazy corellians, scheming Bothans, Borsk Fey'la, and God help me even Waru.

I just miss the EU-I want it back. (Begins sobbing and wailing till my tears are drenched in salt and my face is as wet as if it were a storm)

I just want it back.

Fair enough. I personally was finding the last few years of Star Wars books very disappointing overall (the only stuff I was liking were the non-post-ROTJ stuff), so while there are things that I miss from Legends, overall the reboot has allowed me to enjoy Star Wars tie-ins in a way I haven't been able to for a long time.

Random people on the internet may claim this every day, but it's not true. Star Wars did not use the same system as Star Trek. The books were canon before they weren't. This was expressed to the general public and also to authors. It was the franchise's position at that point. That was the whole point of decanonizing them, which wouldn't have been necessary if they were never canon.

I think this is technically true, however, when you take into account how the old books were treated by the filmmakers and TV show creators, I feel that Legends being canon was something that given lip service only.

 

[The Wormhole]

Well, there was also Barris, Krell and Voss who all for various reasons turned on the Jedi and the Republic.

Good point, though Barris and Krell didn't really side with the Separatists and Voss was working towards a master plan with the intent of taking down the Separatists.

But yeah, I doubt Qui Gon would have fallen either, but perhaps with him still around Dooku could have been redeemed or not fallen at all?

Ooh, now there's an interesting idea.

 

[kirk55555]

The season two episodes "Wings of the Masters" and "Homecoming" and season three episode "Hera's Heroes" have given us the most info so far.

I do remember Wings of the Masters. If I'm being honest, that episode is the closest I ever came to liking Rebels, even if I dislike the changing of the

Spoiler: Wings of the Masters

B-Wing's backstory (although I wonder if keeping the creator the same species was a nod to the old EU origin of the B-Wing).

I guess that did give a bit of Hera's backstory, although nothing that I don't think you couldn't guess already. I didn't see Homecoming or Hera's Heroes obviously, since they're past the point that the Space Whales hammered home the fact that the show was never going to be anything but terrible and I dropped the show.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, there was also Barris, Krell and Voss who all for various reasons turned on the Jedi and the Republic.

But yeah, I doubt Qui Gon would have fallen either, but perhaps with him still around Dooku could have been redeemed or not fallen at all? There's all kinds of things that could have played out differently, not least of which his training with the Priestesses.

Good point, though Barris and Krell didn't really side with the Separatists and Voss was working towards a master plan with the intent of taking down the Separatists.

Ooh, now there's an interesting idea.

I really wish (and no doubt fan fiction may get close to fulfilling it) that there was more Star Wars: Infinities type series where Qui-Gon survives and has to react to the war. I find it very interesting that Dooku, especially in the novels, feels a bit of an attachment to Obi-Wan because of Qui-Gon's teaching and influence on Obi-Wan. It takes Sidious' convincing that Obi-Wan needs to die, but Dooku seems to always have his own reservations about it.

Qui-Gon trying to redeem Dooku would be something I would enjoy.

 

[Skywalker]

It's a shame George Lucas didn't conceive of Dooku until after he'd produced TPM. I really think it would have strengthened the PT if Dooku had appeared in TPM as a member of the Jedi Council who then left the order after his apprentice's death.

 

[Ithekro]

The nods in "Wings of the Master" were definitely a nod to the West End Games version of the events. Species and location name were straight out of the original supplement book. They even pointed it out in the Rebels Recon and other behind the scenes materials. The episode also does not exactly contradict the old West End Games materials either, as there is still room for that story to work as well.

Rebels does use a lot of Roleplaying game style to its characters, and somewhat follows those books by West End Games for at least a style and flavor of their world making.

 

[WebLurker]

I do remember Wings of the Masters. If I'm being honest, that episode is the closest I ever came to liking Rebels, even if I dislike the changing of the

Spoiler: Wings of the Masters

B-Wing's backstory (although I wonder if keeping the creator the same species was a nod to the old EU origin of the B-Wing).

Okay.

I think Itherko is right that Quarrie being a Mon Cal and the planet being called Shantipole were homages to the RPG origins of the B-Wing. I didn't really know the original backstory, so I wasn't bothered by the change (besides, I think it makes a little more sense for an actual engineer, rather than a solider, to have designed it).

I guess that did give a bit of Hera's backstory, although nothing that I don't think you couldn't guess already. I didn't see Homecoming or Hera's Heroes obviously, since they're past the point that the Space Whales hammered home the fact that the show was never going to be anything but terrible and I dropped the show.

The latter shows gave a lot more than "Wings..." did on where she came from why she was out there on the Ghost fighting the good fight. Those shows do tie very heavily into the season one Ryloth arc from The Clone Wars, for what it's worth.

 

[kirk55555]

The latter shows gave a lot more than "Wings..." did on where she came from why she was out there on the Ghost fighting the good fight. Those shows do tie very heavily into the season one Ryloth arc from The Clone Wars, for what it's worth.

I don't even remember the Ryloth arc (Season one of TCW wasn't great, and a lot didn't really stick with me I've noticed when I went back to look up what the episodes where), and I only remember Hera's Dad because he was used in the Lords of the Sith novel. As for why she fights for the Rebels, its not exactly complicated. Standard good guy wants to stop evil, with the bonus that she was raised by a father who was already a rebel (for a more specific cause then her, admittedly), so she has a family history of it.

The nods in "Wings of the Master" were definitely a nod to the West End Games version of the events. Species and location name were straight out of the original supplement book. They even pointed it out in the Rebels Recon and other behind the scenes materials. The episode also does not exactly contradict the old West End Games materials either, as there is still room for that story to work as well.

Rebels does use a lot of Roleplaying game style to its characters, and somewhat follows those books by West End Games for at least a style and flavor of their world making.

So Rebels writers mostly hate (or at best don't care about) the old EU and like to screw with it, but they like the fairly obscure RPG books that few people cared about when they were still a thing (in that the RPG stuff wasn't exactly the cornerstone of the SW universe, not that the RPG was unpopular or obscure among RPG people) and fewer probably remember (I'm 26 and those books were old when I was a kid). Makes me wish they cared as much about characters like Thrawn and making them work well as they do about matching the backstory of a spaceship taken from fairly obscure source material that had already been rendered noncanon by the old EU years before the new canon came about.

Military people sometimes have good ideas, and Admiral Ackbar comes from a planet known for its ship building. It makes sense he could have ideas for a new starfighter, and with the help of some mechanics could see it created. It makes more sense to me then a random inventor invented a starfighter for absolutely no reason (and I say this as someone who considers the B-Wing episode the closest to a "good" episode Rebels ever did).

 

[Ithekro]

The way the story seems to play out presently, is that you have an engineer design and built a prototype B-wing, than the Rebels hand it over to someone to produce and get the bugs out of it. This would likely be the Verpine with Ackbar as supervision (who would get the credit once the B-wings start coming out). An alternate version I read was that Ackbar was in charge of redesigning the B-wing into the version we usually see as well as the Extended cockpit versions used in some of the novels.

Remember the age of the writers and production staff for Rebels are in their 40s and 50s. These are the people that watched Star Wars in the theater when they were children in 1977. They grew up with stuff that is older than the majority of the old EU. Thrawn is later material for them, and even then they have been respectful with his characterization so far. The early EU novels, "Heir to the Empire" to I think "Tyrant's Test" was what I remember that game system covering before Lucasfilm switched the license over to Wizards of the Coast in 2000 for the New Jedi Order series and the Prequel Trilogy. West End Games also covered the very early Han Solo novels from 1979.

 

[Set Harth]

I think this is technically true, however, when you take into account how the old books were treated by the filmmakers and TV show creators, I feel that Legends being canon was something that given lip service only.

Keeping the name "Coruscant" in Episode I was a yuge deal. It helped prop up the "canon completist" position, which insisted that everything all pretty much fit together in the same continuity with no insurmountable problems, despite the fact that the prequels contradicted a lot of stuff. And then of course there were occasional examples of Lucas involvement in a book project or something in the EU being referred to directly by the films, such as Anakin's scar or the "business on Cato Neimoidia".

When it comes to The Clone Wars, in retrospect they were doing the same kind of thing Disney is doing now, only well before there was any hint of selling the franchise: mining things from the EU while changing them to suit their needs. On the other hand, in some cases you could see them keeping things a little ambiguous so that the EU version could still work. Case in point, Grievous' backstory. In other cases, like Even Piell's death, there was no way the EU version could still work. But that was unusual.

 

[fireproof78]

The way the story seems to play out presently, is that you have an engineer design and built a prototype B-wing, than the Rebels hand it over to someone to produce and get the bugs out of it. This would likely be the Verpine with Ackbar as supervision (who would get the credit once the B-wings start coming out). An alternate version I read was that Ackbar was in charge of redesigning the B-wing into the version we usually see as well as the Extended cockpit versions used in some of the novels.

Remember the age of the writers and production staff for Rebels are in their 40s and 50s. These are the people that watched Star Wars in the theater when they were children in 1977. They grew up with stuff that is older than the majority of the old EU. Thrawn is later material for them, and even then they have been respectful with his characterization so far. The early EU novels, "Heir to the Empire" to I think "Tyrant's Test" was what I remember that game system covering before Lucasfilm switched the license over to Wizards of the Coast in 2000 for the New Jedi Order series and the Prequel Trilogy. West End Games also covered the very early Han Solo novels from 1979.

There is a lot of EU material to move through, starting with "Splinter in a Mind's Eye." The idea that the the writing team would glean the EU for ideas, but need to change them around to suit the current story, rather than copy and paste. Some ideas can be made to work and some can't. I certainly like several books in the Old EU but that doesn't mean that I didn't leave them aside when the PT came out.

 

[C.E. Evans]

So Rebels writers mostly hate (or at best don't care about) the old EU and like to screw with it, but they like the fairly obscure RPG books that few people cared about when they were still a thing (in that the RPG stuff wasn't exactly the cornerstone of the SW universe, not that the RPG was unpopular or obscure among RPG people) and fewer probably remember (I'm 26 and those books were old when I was a kid). Makes me wish they cared as much about characters like Thrawn and making them work well as they do about matching the backstory of a spaceship taken from fairly obscure source material that had already been rendered noncanon by the old EU years before the new canon came about.

IMO, it wasn't so much the actual RPG but it's Sourcebook. It drew upon almost every reference book that had been published up to that point (1987), and I think it was kind of the first to cover the entire original trilogy. For those first generation of kids that grew up with Star Wars, it was almost a must-have, so I can see the writers/producers of Rebels referring to it as they probably were from that generation.

I never played the RPG, but I still have an original copy of that Sourcebook in my file cabinet today. The actual parts of the book devoted to the RPG is mainly limited to stats of various ships & characters, but most of the background stories still hold up amazingly well with the prequel trilogy, The Clone Wars, and of course, Rebels. The few parts that don't are, oddly enough, written from the perspective of different people relaying second-hand accounts, if not outright rumors.