Star Wars Books Thread

[Reverend]

I could be wrong, but, as I understood it, the tiered system was more for resolving continuity errors and retcons; generally when there was an inconsistency, the higher-tiered material was considered to be the correct version.

That was almost certainly the intent from Lucasfilm's licencing people's POV, but certain fans (including it seems the wiki editors) took it a bit far to the point where they convinced themselves that this system meant "everything was canon", hence the common misconception that Disney "de-canonised" the EU. Which is impossible since the EU was never canon to begin with. What they really did was essentially archive the EU so there'd be a clear delineation between the old "Legends" and the new stuff which is meant to be canon.
Not that there isn't some deliberate branding going on on their side, but I doubt they had any intention of "taking away" the EU from fans. Quite the contrary, the 'Legends' thing just meant they got to reprint and sell this massive back catalogue they just bought.

Now granted, the Clone Wars show largely did its own thing and did contradict a lot of older tie-in novels, which is where it does get really convoluted. The TV show always had seniority, so it's material became the "real" version. From there the lower level tie-ins would either try to create some kind of retcon to reconcile the two versions (usually published in a reference book or simply stated on social media by a LucasFilm employee) or just chose to disregard the inaccurate version as just that and move on.

So far as I'm aware, TCW was always conceived as being just as canon as the movies and was considered as such by Lucas who was heavily involved and who's opinion on the subject was the only one that really mattered.

So, by the end of Legends' life, there were a fair number of books and comics that were basically said to be overall canon, but specific parts and elements of those stories were not (e.g.: The story happened but marker out the pages where character X died and assume that the story happened without them).

Which is where the very concept of "canon" utterly breaks down. As I said before, it's a binary state. If you take a book that featured an event that in theory *happened* in canon, but the details are all wrong then that particular account is by definition not canonical.

Lets take for example the duel between Anakin & Ventress on Yavin IV. IIRC there are at least two accounts of it in the EU (a comic and the old Clone Wars micro-series) the circumstances around both accounts were entirely different and IIRC in contradiction to materials put out at the time of RotS's release which stated this is where Anakin got his facial scar.

Now it's all well and good saying both of these tell a version of events but however one feels about either (personally I am very fond of the micro-series) neither can be canon, even before the Disney buyout. I'm afraid it's an all or nothing proposition.

I personally didn't mind the system in and of itself, but I do think they stretched too hard in some cases to be as inclusive as possible and that, overall, the tie-ins being canonical was more lip service than anything else (given that the movies and TV shows always did their own thing regardless of what apple carts it would upset). I mean, I think the reboot has been an overall good thing. It's not only allowed new stories and some really good stuff, it's also cleaned up a lot of the more problematic stuff and streamlined everything.

The way I see it it's actually *expanded* the canon as before only the movies and much later the TV show counted, now just about everything they're putting out is included. As a result, they're being held to a much higher standard than before. Both in terms of quality and in terms of continuity.

I've heard a lot of extreme and moderate opinions from these fans. You got those who view the Disney materials as awful fanfiction and hold that the "Legends" version as the only true Star Wars material. Some of these have even insinuated that Disney/LucasFilm is morally wrong for putting the reboot into place.

Oh sure, it's difficult to parse exactly what the overall feeling is since how many are vocal about a given stance varies wildly depending on the venue and whether or not it's just a small group being disproportionately loud.

They way I try and gauge it is off of the reactions of those LF employees who have the most contact with the fans as (unfortunately for them) they're generally the target of various fandom grievances. Based on that, I think you get a generally better sense at which way the wind is blowing.

On the other hand, you got people who simply enjoyed the stories, timelines and characters that only exist in the Legends materials and want more new stories for that version to run concurrently with the Disney materials.

It's kind of interesting seeing how, unlike other unpopular creative decisions with other franchises, this one actually has certain people campaigning for a continuation of Legends, although I do feel that it's gotten out of hand (with the bad apples causing trouble) and has always been an exercise in futility.

That whole thing was utterly baffling to me. I mean "I demand you continue this particular story" is a very strange way to express an appreciation for Star Wars, bordering on the psychotic. It actually put me in mind of 'Misery' with Lucasfilm as James Kaan and the fans as Kathy Bates.

Sure I can see that. Personally, I think that canon has nothing to do with good stories and that there should be some of each, but I do like knowing which stories fit into which categories.

You'd think it'd be that simple for most people, but there appears to be no shortage of people willing to get angry if Clone Wars contradicts some comic they liked or that Rebel has A-Wings showing up pre-ANH.

Huh, I understood that Droids was considered part of canon when Legends was around.

See? This is what I'm talking about!
Seriously though, Droids was a *very* 80's Saturday morning cartoon for kids. Canon is about as relevant a concern to that show then as it is to the Freemaker Adventures is now. I mean you may as well debate whether a Star Wars cereal box or duvet cover is "canon".
It's completely mental and yet it's all too common an argument, mostly because fans have decided that "relevant to continuity" is the same thing as "of value to the franchise".

I'm not sure I liked Splinter of the Mind's Eye that much, although it is interesting for its place in history and it is funny, esp. with hindsight of what future movies would establish.

I don't think it's the best story ever told (neither is 'Heir to the Empire' if I'm honest), but I find it has value both because it's technically the very first EU story before there even was such a thing and because it's a window into a movie that could have been made had things turned out differently at the box office.

In effect, yeah. Now, officially, there's no tier system now, but I'd be extremely surprised if the movies aren't first among equals and if some version of a tier comes back, esp. when the franchise gets larger and discrepancies become more common.

It's different now since it's all much more coordinated and semi-planned out so accidental contradictions are a lot less likely.
For example, anything regarding Ahsoka Tano has been essentially earmarked for Dave Filloni because that's his character and the story group are happy for him to be the one to dictate what that story is. So if for the sake of argument the director of Episode IX wants to feature her in some way, Dave has to be in on that conversation, assuming the LFSG don't nix it right off the bat.
This is also how we get something cool like the comic featuring Fenn Rau's encounter with Kanan/Caleb during the Clone Wars in the same week that encounter is mentioned on the show.
I'm not saying it's the reason that story exists, just that there's a degree of foresight in how these things are made now which makes any significant contradictions unlikely.

So yeah, while I'm sure the movies get first dibs on most things, since it's worked out ahead of time who's telling what story, it'll probably never be a serious issue.

 

[kirk55555]

I've been looking to pick up one of the new canon books I haven't read, and I'm curious if there is a general consensus on the quality of these books:

Dark Disciple
Battlefront: twilight Company
Bloodline
Heir to the Jedi

I'm also considering getting the "Rise of the Empire" two book set to get Tarkin and the three short stories for a good price, although having half the book be (to me) the unreadable Rebels book makes it less appealing.

For reference, of the other new canon books I've read, I really liked Tarkin and Lords of the Sith, and I thought that Aftermath was pretty good. I'm predisposed to at least like the majority of Star Wars books (with a few exceptions), so I'm just curious if one of those books is a clear favorite with SW fans. Also, I'm not considering the YA books like Lost Stars, and I'm going to read Aftermath: Life Debt through the public library (the library hasn't bought those four books I listed above, which is why I'm asking for opinions before I pick one up now that the paperbacks are pretty cheap on Amazon).

 

[Skywalker]

Of those four, I've read Twilight Company and Heir to the Jedi. Twilight Company was really good and a nice change of pace from typical Star Wars fare, with a more military bent to it (which isn't a surprise, since that's kinda the whole point behind it). I was really disappointed with Heir to the Jedi. I'm a fan of Kevin Hearn's Iron Druid Chronicles so I went into this book with some high expectations, but it was pretty mediocre.

 

[JD]

Most of the reaction to Dark Disciple seems to have been pretty positive. I have it sitting in my Nook app on my tablet, but I'm trying to work my way through the Ventress and Maul episodes of the last two or three seasons of TCW before I read it.

A lot of people seem to think that the Story Group is even going to be over the movies and TV show people in terms of storytelling, but I find that a little hard to believe. I really think it's more that they are keeping the books, comics, and games consistent with the each other, and the movies and TV shows. If a contradiction comes up between the movies or Rebels and a comic or book, I'm pretty sure it's going to be the book or comic that has to work their way around it, and not the movie or Rebels. They probably also keep track of all of the characters and things, so when a certain story needs something, they can recommend it. I don't know if this is what happened, but I could have seen the Story Group recommending Saw Gerrera when Rebels needed a old Clone Wars era Rebel character.

Do we know how involved they are with the stuff they work on? Are they actually reading and approving of entire book manuscripts, comic scripts/artwork, games, ect., or are they just OKing the basic concepts?

 

[Reverend]

Do we know how involved they are with the stuff they work on? Are they actually reading and approving of entire book manuscripts, comic scripts/artwork, games, ect., or are they just OKing the basic concepts?

The story group is essentially in charge of guiding all of the creative project sgoing through Lucasfilm these days. Pablo Hidalgo explains a little of it here, but the gist of it is that no, it's not like the movie people just get to do what they want and everybody has to follow along while the LFSG tidies up continuity errors. They're the central point of contact with *all* the different departments, making sure *everyone*, including the "movie people" are all on the same page. By all accounts it's way more coordinated and cooperative that it was previously and it's headed up by Kiri Hart, who's the company's senior vice president in charge of development. So it's has some serious weight behind it on the corporate side.

If you want to know more there's a bunch of different interviews with the various members on the official SW youtube channel, as well as the full panel at Celebration a few month back.

And yes, I don't have a link, but I think it has been specifically said the the LFSG suggested Rogue One use Saw.

 

[kirk55555]

Of those four, I've read Twilight Company and Heir to the Jedi. Twilight Company was really good and a nice change of pace from typical Star Wars fare, with a more military bent to it (which isn't a surprise, since that's kinda the whole point behind it). I was really disappointed with Heir to the Jedi. I'm a fan of Kevin Hearn's Iron Druid Chronicles so I went into this book with some high expectations, but it was pretty mediocre.

I'd heard mixed things about Heir, which sucks because I actually love the Iron Druid Chronicles.

 

[Set Harth]

the common misconception that Disney "de-canonised" the EU. Which is impossible since the EU was never canon to begin with.

Canon is what the franchise says it is, as opposed to what is decreed by random people on the internet. The EU was canon, and this was explicitly told to authors in projects such as the anthology books. That Disney decanonized the EU is a matter of historical fact and no misconception. If we are to now retcon the pre-Disney era's stance on canon then how is Disney to be afforded the privilege to define their own EU as canon? By the same torture of logic Disney's EU cannot be held to be canon either. Thus we see the end result is an effective imposition of the Star Trek system on Star Wars, decreed by the internet as opposed to the franchise holders. Canon is always the same in any franchise, says the internet, and canon is whatever we say it is. But of what use or meaning is this?

Seriously though, Droids was a *very* 80's Saturday morning cartoon for kids.

It doesn't matter. Subjective "this is just kid stuff" arguments are not the metric by which canonicity is defined. Under the Disney regime, a lot of material for kids is considered canon. By the same token it is not some inconceivable thing under the old system.

it's technically the very first EU story before there even was such a thing

Technically that would be the seventh issue of the Marvel Star Wars comic, released in fall 1977.

By all accounts it's way more coordinated and cooperative that it was previously

Meet the new boss... same as the old boss.

 

[Ithekro]

I was amazed when I started to see stuff from Droid in the Fantasy Flight Game material and now Rebels. Also they are getting use of some of the really old Kenner toys for Rebels and I think Rogue One.

 

[Skywalker]

I'd heard mixed things about Heir, which sucks because I actually love the Iron Druid Chronicles.

If it was available in your library I'd say give it a chance, but if you have to put money down on it I'd suggest holding off and wait and see if it ends up in the library later.

 

[WebLurker]

Response to Reverend:

Spoiler

That was almost certainly the intent from Lucasfilm's licencing people's POV, but certain fans (including it seems the wiki editors) took it a bit far to the point where they convinced themselves that this system meant "everything was canon", hence the common misconception that Disney "de-canonised" the EU. Which is impossible since the EU was never canon to begin with.

I'm not so sure; there have been enough official statements from those in charge that we can safely say that they were canonical (albeit automatically slated for retconning if the Powers That Be wanted to). So, was Legends officially canon to begin with? Yes, that is verifiable without a shadow of a doubt. Was it treated as such? In all honestly, I'm not so sure, but we're talking in technicalities, not practical application.

What they really did was essentially archive the EU so there'd be a clear delineation between the old "Legends" and the new stuff which is meant to be canon.

Agreed.

Not that there isn't some deliberate branding going on on their side, but I doubt they had any intention of "taking away" the EU from fans. Quite the contrary, the 'Legends' thing just meant they got to reprint and sell this massive back catalogue they just bought.

Yeah, if Disney wanted fans to forget about Legends, they wouldn't be reprinting stuff.

So far as I'm aware, TCW was always conceived as being just as canon as the movies and was considered as such by Lucas who was heavily involved and who's opinion on the subject was the only one that really mattered.

I think that's true. (Ironically, in the earlier seasons, there are a few instances where Dave Filoni went out of his way to be ambiguous when Lucas had an idea that contradicted an earlier story, so that either version could be viewed as "accurate" or two pieces of the same story.)

Which is where the very concept of "canon" utterly breaks down. As I said before, it's a binary state. If you take a book that featured an event that in theory *happened* in canon, but the details are all wrong then that particular account is by definition not canonical.

What if a book has a typo? Does it mean that that the book can't be canon? What if someone forgot a detail?

(I agree that Legends was a really messy system, but I'm not sure if the mess is enough to discount it alone.)

And, by definition, a retcon changes something in the series past, which may mean that while the overall story happened, there might be a few details that are not correct.

I've gathered that the best way to look at it is like historical documents. There maybe some mistakes, but the they're still considered accurate enough to build our understanding of the past on.

Lets take for example the duel between Anakin & Ventress on Yavin IV. IIRC there are at least two accounts of it in the EU (a comic and the old Clone Wars micro-series) the circumstances around both accounts were entirely different and IIRC in contradiction to materials put out at the time of RotS's release which stated this is where Anakin got his facial scar.

And the Clone Wars show gave Ventress a completely different story (although her backstory ironically more or less follows her Legends version.)

Now it's all well and good saying both of these tell a version of events but however one feels about either (personally I am very fond of the micro-series) neither can be canon, even before the Disney buyout. I'm afraid it's an all or nothing proposition.

As I understand it, the novels tended to have seniority over the micro-series (which I honestly think is overrated).

The way I see it it's actually *expanded* the canon as before only the movies and much later the TV show counted, now just about everything they're putting out is included. As a result, they're being held to a much higher standard than before. Both in terms of quality and in terms of continuity.

See my previous comments on Legend's former canonicity. As far as the present, agreed.

Oh sure, it's difficult to parse exactly what the overall feeling is since how many are vocal about a given stance varies wildly depending on the venue and whether or not it's just a small group being disproportionately loud.

They way I try and gauge it is off of the reactions of those LF employees who have the most contact with the fans as (unfortunately for them) they're generally the target of various fandom grievances. Based on that, I think you get a generally better sense at which way the wind is blowing.

What do you think the verdict is?

That whole thing was utterly baffling to me. I mean "I demand you continue this particular story" is a very strange way to express an appreciation for Star Wars, bordering on the psychotic.

Well, I do sympathize with them to an extent, since there are a few franchises I like that have changed into stuff I don't like, but, yeah, I think they've crossed the line in several instances.

It actually put me in mind of 'Misery' with Lucasfilm as James Kaan and the fans as Kathy Bates.

Huh?

You'd think it'd be that simple for most people, but there appears to be no shortage of people willing to get angry if Clone Wars contradicts some comic they liked or that Rebel has A-Wings showing up pre-ANH.

Different priorities, huh?

See? This is what I'm talking about!

Well, the Droids show was references in numerous reference books that were ostensibly in-universe guide books for the Legends version of Star Wars.

Seriously though, Droids was a *very* 80's Saturday morning cartoon for kids. Canon is about as relevant a concern to that show then as it is to the Freemaker Adventures is now.

Hmmm.

I mean you may as well debate whether a Star Wars cereal box or duvet cover is "canon".

I think there have been such discussions (at least I've heard that action figures have been cited as canonical references).

It's completely mental and yet it's all too common an argument, mostly because fans have decided that "relevant to continuity" is the same thing as "of value to the franchise".

Yeah, that's a common mistake to make.

I don't think it's the best story ever told (neither is 'Heir to the Empire' if I'm honest)...

Personally, I think John Jackson Miller's Kenobi is the greatest Star Wars novel to date.

...but I find it has value both because it's technically the very first EU story before there even was such a thing and because it's a window into a movie that could have been made had things turned out differently at the box office.

Sure.

It's different now since it's all much more coordinated and semi-planned out so accidental contradictions are a lot less likely.
For example, anything regarding Ahsoka Tano has been essentially earmarked for Dave Filloni because that's his character and the story group are happy for him to be the one to dictate what that story is. So if for the sake of argument the director of Episode IX wants to feature her in some way, Dave has to be in on that conversation, assuming the LFSG don't nix it right off the bat.
This is also how we get something cool like the comic featuring Fenn Rau's encounter with Kanan/Caleb during the Clone Wars in the same week that encounter is mentioned on the show.
I'm not saying it's the reason that story exists, just that there's a degree of foresight in how these things are made now which makes any significant contradictions unlikely.

So yeah, while I'm sure the movies get first dibs on most things, since it's worked out ahead of time who's telling what story, it'll probably never be a serious issue.

We can only hope.

I've been looking to pick up one of the new canon books I haven't read, and I'm curious if there is a general consensus on the quality of these books:

Dark Disciple
Battlefront: twilight Company
Bloodline
Heir to the Jedi

Haven't read Twilight Company or Bloodline yet. Heir to the Jedi was pretty weak (I'd say only library check-out only. Dark Disciple is good, but I didn't enjoy it as much as the rest of the world seems to have.

I'm also considering getting the "Rise of the Empire" two book set to get Tarkin and the three short stories for a good price, although having half the book be (to me) the unreadable Rebels book makes it less appealing.

I'd like to get that one, too. If you haven't read A New Dawn and are just thinking you won't like it because of the Rebels connection, I'd advise to you to read it and judge it for its own merits. It's written by one of the best Star Wars novelists in the business (and it shows) and stands alone from the TV show quite well. (Also, one of the short stories in the volume is a New Dawn tie-in.)

For reference, of the other new canon books I've read, I really liked Tarkin and Lords of the Sith, and I thought that Aftermath was pretty good. I'm predisposed to at least like the majority of Star Wars books (with a few exceptions), so I'm just curious if one of those books is a clear favorite with SW fans.

Tarkin and Lords of the Sith were good. I thought Aftermath was mediocre, but not the disaster some thought (Mister "I have committed violence" Bones makes it worth at least one read, and I did like the mom and the Imperial defector guy, too.). Actually, my favorite new Del Rey novel has been A New Dawn, although of the three you mentioned, I liked Lords of the Sith the best.

Also, I'm not considering the YA books like Lost Stars, and I'm going to read Aftermath: Life Debt through the public library (the library hasn't bought those four books I listed above, which is why I'm asking for opinions before I pick one up now that the paperbacks are pretty cheap on Amazon).

Man, if you haven't read Lost Stars, you're missing out on one of the best Star Wars books in recent years (actually, a lot of the YA and younger Star Wars books have some of the best installments in the new canon).

 

[Set Harth]

(Ironically, in the earlier seasons, there are a few instances where Dave Filoni went out of his way to be ambiguous when Lucas had an idea that contradicted an earlier story, so that either version could be viewed as "accurate" or two pieces of the same story.)

The one that readily comes to mind is Grievous' origin.

In retrospect, though, the whole thing makes me wonder just how far back they already knew what was going to go down with the Disney sale, the sequels, et cetera. Because eventually they could be observed to have dispensed with the "ambiguous" approach and were simply stealing ideas from the existing EU and using them on the show in a way that outright contradicted fairly recent existing works. ( Even Piell's death in Citadel Rescue is what I'm talking about. ) It can be noted that this is essentially the same way the current Disney-canon uses Legends, as a source of ideas, concepts, planet names, and the like, so that it feels like fanservice without actually needing to be consistent with the original source material. ( Malachor, anyone? )

 

[kirk55555]

Haven't read Twilight Company or Bloodline yet. Heir to the Jedi was pretty weak (I'd say only library check-out only. Dark Disciple is good, but I didn't enjoy it as much as the rest of the world seems to have.

That seems to be the general consensus of Heir, which is unfortunate. I was pretty excited for it when it was announced, because Hearne was the author.

I'd like to get that one, too. If you haven't read A New Dawn and are just thinking you won't like it because of the Rebels connection, I'd advise to you to read it and judge it for its own merits. It's written by one of the best Star Wars novelists in the business (and it shows) and stands alone from the TV show quite well. (Also, one of the short stories in the volume is a New Dawn tie-in.)

I've read some of his stuff. The Knights of the Old Republic comics were pretty good, and Kenobi was pretty awesome. His Star Trek book that I've read (Takedown) was also pretty good. But, my opinion on Rebels and its cardboard cutouts is pretty well established, and even my favorite writers couldn't do anything with them, and Miller isn't different. Its a Rebels book controlled by the story group, so its just an episode in novel form. If I wanted to be bored and irritated by Rebels, I'd watch an episode. At least that would just be 22 minutes of my life wasted, as opposed to several hours wasted reading the book. Heck, those mass produced SW chapter books for elementary school kids would be more interesting to me then a Rebels book, and they'd probably be deeper, more complex stories then anything connected to Rebels have ever been.

Tarkin and Lords of the Sith were good. I thought Aftermath was mediocre, but not the disaster some thought (Mister "I have committed violence" Bones makes it worth at least one read, and I did like the mom and the Imperial defector guy, too.). Actually, my favorite new Del Rey novel has been A New Dawn, although of the three you mentioned, I liked Lords of the Sith the best.

It seems like several reviewers didn't like Mr. Bones, but I thought he was entertaining. I also liked the Mom and thought the imperial guy and Rae Sloane were good characters. Temin wasn't terrible, but probably a bit too whiny. The writing style was a bit weird, and all the interlude chapters that were completely unconnected to the main story felt like padding. Still, I liked the actual story well enough, although I wouldn't say that the book is anywhere near the top of my favorite SW books.

Man, if you haven't read Lost Stars, you're missing out on one of the best Star Wars books in recent years (actually, a lot of the YA and younger Star Wars books have some of the best installments in the new canon).

I've heard its a romance story, and that combined with it being a YA book means I have no interest in it. Honestly, there are too many SW books out there for me to ever consider a YA book.

 

[The Wormhole]

I've heard its a romance story,

That's a simplistic way of looking at both the novel and the relationship between the two leads.

Honestly, there are too many SW books out there for me to ever consider a YA book.

Your loss then.

 

[kirk55555]

That's a simplistic way of looking at both the novel and the relationship between the two leads.

A simplistic way of looking at a simplistic novel.

Your loss then.

There are hundreds of Legends books (many of which I've read, but I like to reread good books) and a growing number of new canon adult books to read. Saying I'm losing anything by skipping the YA books is like saying I'm losing something by skipping books like these:

Honestly, those books would probably be less annoying then books written for the Hunger Games/Twilight audience like Lost Stars. Anyway, the adult books are the real Star Wars books. Nothing too important will be put in books designed for middle schoolers, so they're easy to skip. Its not even a question really, its just like those books I posted images of. I read books written for general audiences/adults, like the vast majority of the old EU was (outside of the specifically kid focused series like Young Jedi Knights). The other stuff is just unimportant fluff. I'm sure the age groups they're focused on like them, but at 25 I'm at least 10 years older then the average member of the Lost Stars audience, and it isn't exactly Harry Potter we're talking about here.

 

[WebLurker]

I've read some of [Miller's] stuff. The Knights of the Old Republic comics were pretty good, and Kenobi was pretty awesome. His Star Trek book that I've read (Takedown) was also pretty good.

Glad to hear that his Trek stuff is good.

But, my opinion on Rebels and its cardboard cutouts is pretty well established, and even my favorite writers couldn't do anything with them, and Miller isn't different.

Wait, so you did read it, or not? I'm confused

Its a Rebels book controlled by the story group, so its just an episode in novel form. If I wanted to be bored and irritated by Rebels, I'd watch an episode. At least that would just be 22 minutes of my life wasted, as opposed to several hours wasted reading the book.

It's not a Rebels book. There are only two characters in it, it's written for an older audience than the youngest TV show audiences (there's gristly murder, unsavory details about Kanan's past, and it's pretty obvious why Kanan originally wants to help Hera). The main story is an unique one and has some pretty unique guest characters. At the end of the day it's is up to you, but I think you're letting your dislike of the TV show turn you off a good Star Wars book.

Heck, those mass produced SW chapter books for elementary school kids would be more interesting to me then a Rebels book, and they'd probably be deeper, more complex stories then anything connected to Rebels have ever been.

Are you talking about stuff like Junior and Young Jedi Knights, Jedi Apprentice, The Last of the Jedi, etc.?

It seems like several reviewers didn't like Mr. Bones, but I thought he was entertaining.

Funny.

I also liked the Mom and thought the imperial guy and Rae Sloane were good characters. Temin wasn't terrible, but probably a bit too whiny.

I never did "get" young Snap Wexley, to be honsest.

The writing style was a bit weird, and all the interlude chapters that were completely unconnected to the main story felt like padding. Still, I liked the actual story well enough, although I wouldn't say that the book is anywhere near the top of my favorite SW books.

The writing did take getting used to. I liked the interludes the best, personally.

I've heard its a romance story, and that combined with it being a YA book means I have no interest in it. Honestly, there are too many SW books out there for me to ever consider a YA book.

Yeah, there is a love story (but one done right), but the characters have more development and story arcs beyond that. It's pretty well-written and if the "YA" label bothers you, it's a misnomer: The book should've been just released as a standard adult novel, since there's no difference.

A simplistic way of looking at a simplistic novel.

Having read it, it's not a simplistic book.

There are hundreds of Legends books (many of which I've read, but I like to reread good books) and a growing number of new canon adult books to read. Saying I'm losing anything by skipping the YA books is like saying I'm losing something by skipping books like these...

You know what, in the new canon, the YA and slightly-younger focused book have actually been some of the best installments to date. You are missing out on some good stuff.

Honestly, those books would probably be less annoying then books written for the Hunger Games/Twilight audience like Lost Stars. Anyway, the adult books are the real Star Wars books. Nothing too important will be put in books designed for middle schoolers, so they're easy to skip. Its not even a question really, its just like those books I posted images of. I read books written for general audiences/adults, like the vast majority of the old EU was (outside of the specifically kid focused series like Young Jedi Knights). The other stuff is just unimportant fluff. I'm sure the age groups they're focused on like them, but at 25 I'm at least 10 years older then the average member of the Lost Stars audience, and it isn't exactly Harry Potter we're talking about here.

I've listened to Star Wars authors be interviewed on podcasts. A common statement they make is that they approach the kid's/YA prose books (I'm not counting picture books, early readers, etc.) and adult books in exactly the same way. Excusing the fact that the former can't have four-letter words and other stuff, they're more or less just labeled as they are for marketing purposes (and to help parents when deciding what ones to share with their young padawans).

 

[kirk55555]

It's not a Rebels book. There are only two characters in it, it's written for an older audience than the youngest TV show audiences (there's gristly murder, unsavory details about Kanan's past, and it's pretty obvious why Kanan originally wants to help Hera). The main story is an unique one and has some pretty unique guest characters. At the end of the day it's is up to you, but I think you're letting your dislike of the TV show turn you off a good Star Wars book.

I can't imagine that a book based on Rebels was written for anyone but the target audience of the show, and then just not labeled YA because they tried to sucker some older SW fans into buying it. As for Kanan and Hera, they're bland cardboard cut outs. Two living cliches with very predictable attitudes and story arcs. I imagine Kanan was a gruff hermit who was eventually convinced by Hera to help the rebellion. The most unsavory thing he's probably ever done is grow long hair and change his name. Well, he was a minion of a smuggler for a bit in the few issues of the mediocre Kanan comic I tried to read, so that is probably the most unsavory thing the character ever did from a morality point of view. As for a "grisly murder", the one thing Rebels does is kill a bunch of nameless people, so I can't imagine a death in a book is anything you wouldn't see on Rebels. As for the main story, there is no such thing as a unique story featuring Rebels "characters" (just like there is no such thing as a good story featuring Rebels "characters"). The best writer in the history of the human race couldn't make a good story with the Rebels "characters".

Yeah, there is a love story (but one done right), but the characters have more development and story arcs beyond that. It's pretty well-written and if the "YA" label bothers you, it's a misnomer: The book should've been just released as a standard adult novel, since there's no difference.

Its a good deal smaller (I saw it in a Wal-Mart once, and I noticed its size) and presumably was written with less complexity in the story then the average General Audiences book.

You know what, in the new canon, the YA and slightly-younger focused book have actually been some of the best installments to date. You are missing out on some good stuff.

I definitely don't agree with that, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. The only good SW books are the General Audience stuff. Same with every other franchise ever, outside of stuff like Harry Potter which only ever did YA books (although they were ones written better then any other YA author). I don't personally count any YA SW book as canon, just like I don't count the various "learn to read" SW books (and similar things) as canon. They just exist to try to get kids and young teens involved with Star Wars and hopefully buy the real books when they get older (although I was old enough as a young teen to read the normal SW books anyway, but a lot of people just aren't that into reading nowadays, so they're obviously trying different things to get teens into reading).

I've listened to Star Wars authors be interviewed on podcasts. A common statement they make is that they approach the kid's/YA prose books (I'm not counting picture books, early readers, etc.) and adult books in exactly the same way. Excusing the fact that the former can't have four-letter words and other stuff, they're more or less just labeled as they are for marketing purposes (and to help parents when deciding what ones to share with their young padawans).

I'm pretty sure the kid/YA books are also written with more simple language, less intense action and less complex stories/characters overall. I'm not saying the authors are trying to write bad books, just books designed to be understood and enjoyed by significantly younger people then the more general audience main Star Wars books.

 

[USS Firefly]

I am reading Starwars Riptide, so far a great book.
I hope that there will come more Jaden Korr books

 

[JD]

I'm always disappointed when I see people take that kind of attitude towards books just because they have the YA label. I've been reading quite a few adult and YA books lately, and there's really not that much of a difference. The written and plots and stuff like that are pretty much the same, the only real difference is the amount of swearing, graphic violence and sex.

The story group is essentially in charge of guiding all of the creative project sgoing through Lucasfilm these days. Pablo Hidalgo explains a little of it here, but the gist of it is that no, it's not like the movie people just get to do what they want and everybody has to follow along while the LFSG tidies up continuity errors. They're the central point of contact with *all* the different departments, making sure *everyone*, including the "movie people" are all on the same page. By all accounts it's way more coordinated and cooperative that it was previously and it's headed up by Kiri Hart, who's the company's senior vice president in charge of development. So it's has some serious weight behind it on the corporate side.

If you want to know more there's a bunch of different interviews with the various members on the official SW youtube channel, as well as the full panel at Celebration a few month back.

And yes, I don't have a link, but I think it has been specifically said the the LFSG suggested Rogue One use Saw.

Cool, it's nice to know they are actually taking that much of an active hand in everything.

 

[kirk55555]

I'm always disappointed when I see people take that kind of attitude towards books just because they have the YA label. I've been reading quite a few adult and YA books lately, and there's really not that much of a difference. The written and plots and stuff like that are pretty much the same, the only real difference is the amount of swearing, graphic violence and sex.

To be fair, the general audience Star Wars books don't have sex, the swearing is all fake SW terms and the violence is generally not that graphic (I don't read the kind of books that focus on that so called "adult" stuff anyway). That's why I prefer to say "general audience" as opposed to "adult" when talking about the SW books written for the age group above the YA books.

 

[WebLurker]

I can't imagine that a book based on Rebels was written for anyone but the target audience of the show, and then just not labeled YA because they tried to sucker some older SW fans into buying it.

It's not labeled "YA" because it's not a YA book

As for Kanan and Hera, they're bland cardboard cut outs. Two living cliches with very predictable attitudes and story arcs.

Can't fault you for holding your own opinions.

I imagine Kanan was a gruff hermit who was eventually convinced by Hera to help the rebellion. The most unsavory thing he's probably ever done is grow long hair and change his name. Well, he was a minion of a smuggler for a bit in the few issues of the mediocre Kanan comic I tried to read, so that is probably the most unsavory thing the character ever did from a morality point of view. As for a "grisly murder", the one thing Rebels does is kill a bunch of nameless people, so I can't imagine a death in a book is anything you wouldn't see on Rebels.

Wrong on all accounts, esp. what Kanan was doing before the TV show and the murder.

As for the main story, there is no such thing as a unique story featuring Rebels "characters" (just like there is no such thing as a good story featuring Rebels "characters"). The best writer in the history of the human race couldn't make a good story with the Rebels "characters".

I would see those bets, except I don't pay with people who stack the deck.

Its a good deal smaller (I saw it in a Wal-Mart once, and I noticed its size) and presumably was written with less complexity in the story then the average General Audiences book.

It's not as tall, to be sure, but clocks in at 551 pages. Here's a comparison with other Star Wars hardcovers:

- TMP novelization: 324
- Truce at Bakura: 311
- A New Dawn: 383
- TFA novelization: 260
- Catalyst: 352
- Vision of the Future: 692
- Choices of One: 355

Lost Stars is not only comparable in length to a lot of the general audience novels, but is actually longer than most. (For the record, a YA hardcover with similar dimeonsions, Black Widow: Forever Red, clocks in at 401 pages, so it's longer than even the norm in it's genre.)

As far as the complexity goes, it's as complex as any other general audience book in the series.

I definitely don't agree with that, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Yeah?

The only good SW books are the General Audience stuff.

Since you admit you don't read them, I'm not sure how qualified you are on that assessment.

Same with every other franchise ever, outside of stuff like Harry Potter which only ever did YA books (although they were ones written better then any other YA author).

I don't know, some of the best authors in the world only wrote YA books (and it's my understanding that the Harry Potter books aren't exactly well-written.)

I don't personally count any YA SW book as canon, just like I don't count the various "learn to read" SW books (and similar things) as canon.

The latter are usually retellings of snippets of the movies (which are canon), and the LucasFilm Story Group disagrees with you on the former.

They just exist to try to get kids and young teens involved with Star Wars and hopefully buy the real books when they get older (although I was old enough as a young teen to read the normal SW books anyway, but a lot of people just aren't that into reading nowadays, so they're obviously trying different things to get teens into reading).

All books exist to get people to buy them, and the target audience has little to do with whether the book is good or not. A lot of classics are technically kids books.

I'm pretty sure the kid/YA books are also written with more simple language, less intense action and less complex stories/characters overall. I'm not saying the authors are trying to write bad books, just books designed to be understood and enjoyed by significantly younger people then the more general audience main Star Wars books.

As C.S. Lewis put it: “A children's story that can only be enjoyed by children is not a good children's story in the slightest.” On top of that, a lot of the modern YA and similar-age-targeted Star Wars books have been getting a lot of praise from adult reviewers for being stuff that adults can enjoy right alongside the kids.

To be fair, the general audience Star Wars books don't have sex, the swearing is all fake SW terms and the violence is generally not that graphic (I don't read the kind of books that focus on that so called "adult" stuff anyway). That's why I prefer to say "general audience" as opposed to "adult" when talking about the SW books written for the age group above the YA books.

Not all of them have fake swearing and no sex (Lost Stars, in fact, has both real swear words and a sexual relationship, albeit not described in graphic detail).