Star Wars Books Thread

[Prax]

No, that was Leland's personal justification for the wipe, not the reason why LucasFilm did it.

https://twitter.com/holocronkeeper/status/953489655621607424?lang=en

I didn't know that, but I don't use Twitter. I just saw all the articles that quoted his earlier statement. This tweet is interesting though, as he says "happened long before I came to the Story Group" as he was part of the Story Group since its beginning in 2014, and he was the head of the pre-2014 "Story Group" for many years up until 2014.

And despite what some seem to insist, it wasn't Disney that ended the EU, it the Lucas the second he decided to start making the ST, which was *before* selling the company. Do people really think LF would have continued publishing post RotJ EU material while also telling an entirely different version of events in the cinema *and* also publishing the usual requisite of narrative tie-in media?

Did Dark Horse keep going with their old Clone Wars stories after the animated series came out? Hell no.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. The Story Group was formed in 2014, just after the original script for episode 7 was thrown out(Michael Arndt was let go or quit, and JJ was asked to write a new script. He even visited Lucas at his home for a "blessing")The stated purpose of the Story Group was to go through the EU(especially the post-rotj eu), and pick/choose what to keep, and what not to. They later decided to scrap the whole thing except TCW and the films. This was 2 years after Lucas left, and a couple of months after "throwing out his story" as he later stated.

Back to the Chewbacca thing: In 1999, the Lucasfilm story people were putting together the New Jedi Order series, and wanted to have a dramatic death of a main character in the first book. They wanted to kill Luke. Lucas said "Absolutely not." And told them which characters were off limits. So they chose Chewbacca.

Also, prior to 1999, Lucas Licensing/eu authors were forbidden from writing in the Clone Wars/Prequel era. Why? Because Lucas had plans to make a Prequel trilogy. They were only allowed to do "old Republic" stories if they went 3-4,000 years back so as not to interfere with future films.

The RotJ Legends timeline ended with Luke being about 65 years old, the same age as Mark Hamill.
So when the Prequels were made, Lucas had a blank slate and not interfere with any books/comics, etc, and when the Sequels were being made, there was likewise, a blank slate.

 

[Reverend]

Again, it has nothing to do with the story group. Whoever is or is not in charge, the only sane move to make in the event of new post RotJ Star Wars movies. Both from a creative and a business standpoint it would have been *insane* to do otherwise.

You can have new movies, or more EU novels. Not both and I think we know that the former is what the majority of Star Wars fans would prefer and would make the company the most money in the short and long run.

 

[Prax]

You said the if Lucas woupd have made the sequel trilogy, he would have thrown the EU out anyway, and your proof is that "It's the only thing that makes sense."

We simply don't know, and have a lot of indication otherwise, like Leland Chee saying even after the sale to Disney, after a year or two of planning episode 7, that the EU "will never reboot!" As EU fans were nervous in 2012 when the sale of Lucasfilm and episode 7 were announced.

As for your statements about people pointing the finger at "Disney." Has anyone even mentioned "Disney"? in relation to this, here? Anyways, "Disney," "K.Kennedy," or "Lucasfilm," etc are used interchangeably by both fans and critics, the same way Lucas & Lucasfilm were used interchangeably for discussing almost any decision of Lucasfilm. So, imo, it's not all that important, nor do I really care, but while I think Lucasfilm does have a good deal of autonomy, Disney is not absent from the creative process.

“Still, Iger wanted to make sure that Lucas, who was used to controlling every aspect of Star Wars, from set design to lunchboxes, understood that Disney, not Lucasfilm, would have final say over any future movies.”-Dave Leonard, Businessweek.com editor, in Businessweek.com article, How Disney Bought Lucasfilm—and Its Plans for 'Star Wars, March 7, 2013

“We needed to have an understanding that if we acquire the company, despite tons of collegial conversations and collaboration, at the end of the day, we have to be the ones who sign off on whatever the plans are,”-Alan Horn, Chairman of Walt Disney studios, Businessweek.com article, How Disney Bought Lucasfilm—and Its Plans for 'Star Wars, March 7, 2013

Lucas' former role as ceo/president/creative king/whatever, of Lucasfilm, have now been divided between K. Kennedy, Bob Iger, and whoever it is that K.K. answers to that answers to Bob Iger. Alan Horn, I guess.

 

[Tuskin38]

You said the if Lucas woupd have made the sequel trilogy, he would have thrown the EU out anyway, and your proof is that "It's the only thing that makes sense."

I don't have a link, as he wipes his twitter account every week now, but Pablo Hidalgo of the Story Group said on there some time last year that Lucas was ignoring the EU when he was writing his post ROTJ outlines.

Some of the ideas George pitched did end up in the movies, Luke being in exile similar to Yoda, a female force user lead being trained by Luke all came from him.

The Luke-Rey plot in TLJ was originally the basis for George's version Episode 7 according to the TLJ art book.

http://www.slashfilm.com/george-lucas-sequel-trilogy/

 

[Reverend]

It really shouldn't need to be explained why LF wouldn't have continued the EU with a ST in production. There's no way to tell a true follow-up to the OT without covering a lot of the same ground as the EU had by that point. And putting out two entirely different versions of events is just moronic on the face of it. A bad business decision and a bad creative decision. QED.

And no, just adapting the Thrawn Trilogy wouldn't have worked as (ignoring the actor's ages for a second) while they're OK books, they'd make for three very shitty and repetitive movies, or one very pointless movie. Skipping over it and setting the new trilogy *after* the EU books would be even less of a brilliant idea since you then lumber it with 30+ years of continuity that less than 3% of the movie going audience is going to have more than just the vaguest notion of, let alone actually give a shit about.

The ST and the EU were always mutually exclusive concepts. That's just how it is.

 

[The Wormhole]

You said the if Lucas woupd have made the sequel trilogy, he would have thrown the EU out anyway,

He would have.

your proof is that "It's the only thing that makes sense."

It is.

As EU fans were nervous in 2012 when the sale of Lucasfilm and episode 7 were announced.

That's silly. Anyone in touch with reality would have known the moment Disney bought Lucasfilm and announced a new trilogy was in the works that the EU was done for. That it took two years for everything to be officially announced I suspect had more to do with it taking that long to plan out how they wanted the new, cohesive tie-in continuity to work combined with honouring any pre-existing contracts which were already in place for novels and comics.

 

[DarKush]

It really shouldn't need to be explained why LF wouldn't have continued the EU with a ST in production. There's no way to tell a true follow-up to the OT without covering a lot of the same ground as the EU had by that point. And putting out two entirely different versions of events is just moronic on the face of it. A bad business decision and a bad creative decision. QED.

And no, just adapting the Thrawn Trilogy wouldn't have worked as (ignoring the actor's ages for a second) while they're OK books, they'd make for three very shitty and repetitive movies, or one very pointless movie. Skipping over it and setting the new trilogy *after* the EU books would be even less of a brilliant idea since you then lumber it with 30+ years of continuity that less than 3% of the movie going audience is going to have more than just the vaguest notion of, let alone actually give a shit about.

The ST and the EU were always mutually exclusive concepts. That's just how it is.

I don't see why doing a new trilogy that takes place after the EU is a bad thing. For one, it acknowledges the EU and its fans, while also maybe generating more money for people eager to read all that preexisting backstory, it gives the filmmakers/script writers some backstory to work with, to root the characters. By skipping over the EU, that mean's it's in the rear view and still frees up the opportunities for new stories. I don't see how that is much different than what we got with the sequels, which has largely 30 years of unaccounted for history to fill up. Granted, this will lead to another round of books, comics, etc., creating a kind of double dipping, but that will eventually lead to say the makers of Episode 13 wanting to eschew all that 'dense' continuity as well.

 

[Tuskin38]

I don't see why doing a new trilogy that takes place after the EU is a bad thing.

They have had to set far in the future after the EU without the need to read the EU, because the average movie going fan would know nothing about the post ROTJ stories.

It would be confusing, and doing a recap of everything needed in the film would be repetitive.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't see why doing a new trilogy that takes place after the EU is a bad thing.

There's no way a Hollywood blockbuster is going to be consistent with a twenty year old novel continuity.

For one, it acknowledges the EU and its fans,

Fans of the EU only make up 1% of Star Wars fandom overall. Small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

Granted, this will lead to another round of books, comics, etc., creating a kind of double dipping, but that will eventually lead to say the makers of Episode 13 wanting to eschew all that 'dense' continuity as well.

Well, yes, which is why I've had an issue with this "everything is canon" attitude we now have regarding tie-ins. In ten to twenty years, we're going to be in a situation where suddenly novels and comics are going to be dropped from canon which is just going to lead to the same butthurt expressed over the nullification of the EU. Hell, we're already starting to see cracks forming, given Rey and Poe now have two different met each other for the first time scenes.

 

[DarKush]

^
All I'll say is 1% is not insignificant especially in this internet age where a small group of very excited people can drum up some attention and support. To me, your point would seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any kinds of nods and/or Easter Eggs to fans in Star Wars or any other franchises for that matter, since only a sliver of people are likely to get and appreciate most of them, with the biggest exception being say Stan Lee cameos which even average moviegoers are primed for now.

Plus, that 1% might also crossover with the people who are going to be a lot of merchandise and other material, so I don't think they should be dismissed. Conversely, it doesn't mean that everything has to be made just for that group, or should. However, the EU stories IMO were good enough, and many were better, than what we got in the sequels (which also seem inspired by some of the EU, with Rey (Jaina), Ben (Jacen), New Republic, First Order (Imperial Remnant)), and for me, the lack of knowledge by the general masses doesn't mean the EU stories were bad, just that the average person isn't checking for tie-in fiction in any genre, but that doesn't negate the fact either that there have been bestselling Star Wars EU novels. If some or all of the EU had been adapted, there's already an excited fanbase and the movies should still be good enough to rope in casual moviegoers.

 

[fireproof78]

If some or all of the EU had been adapted, there's already an excited fanbase and the movies should still be good enough to rope in casual moviegoers.

The other edge of that sword is less forgiveness for when something is missed. One merely need to look at the reaction to Thrawn be introduced to Rebels for how "wrong" the lore was gotten with him. For all the little tie-ins that could have been gained, there would have been just as much missed and furor would have increased. Yes, the ST is criticized and torn apart, but it is being criticized and torn apart for what it is, not for not alinging with a book.

Secondly, Lucas is on record that the EU isn't where he wanted to go with the story. Which means that if Abrams wanted his blessing, adapting the EU wasn't the path towards it.

Star Wars already has an excited fan base. There isn't the need to "rope in" casual film goers, because it's Star Wars. The idea that the EU was needed to be adapted to sweeten the deal is stretching it, at best.

 

[DarKush]

The other edge of that sword is less forgiveness for when something is missed. One merely need to look at the reaction to Thrawn be introduced to Rebels for how "wrong" the lore was gotten with him. For all the little tie-ins that could have been gained, there would have been just as much missed and furor would have increased. Yes, the ST is criticized and torn apart, but it is being criticized and torn apart for what it is, not for not alinging with a book.

Secondly, Lucas is on record that the EU isn't where he wanted to go with the story. Which means that if Abrams wanted his blessing, adapting the EU wasn't the path towards it.

Star Wars already has an excited fan base. There isn't the need to "rope in" casual film goers, because it's Star Wars. The idea that the EU was needed to be adapted to sweeten the deal is stretching it, at best.

Did the EU need to be adapted? No. But I don't think it would've been terrible if they had, and they have been bringing over characters and ideas from the EU, from the PT to this Disney era anyway. While I am a fan of the EU, I knew a little about Lucas's ambivalence about it, so I could very well see them not using it entirely if Lucas had put out the sequel trilogy himself. That being said, I do see him using some of it, because why waste a good reservoir of source material?

It's a very good point that you will have some people who want a strict adherence to the EU and might be mad about not getting that, and there's also the issue of the EU films already being 'spoiled' since those stories would be written. With that though, books are adapted all the time and that doesn't seem to hurt the films based on them, for that reason alone-quality issues withstanding. I don't know how much fan furor over adherence to canon would matter, just like fan furor over junking the EU doesn't matter, or even some fan furor over TLJ didn't majorly hurt its box office. Sometimes, its just a bunch of noise.

I didn't think the EU would be adapted entirely, but like how Lucas had done with some films and we saw in Clone Wars, that aspects of it might wind up in the sequel trilogy and some of it has, just in altered forms. But if the sequels had been better than the EU, IMO, I would be fine with that. But right now, Disney Star Wars isn't as good as the EU. Rebels is even better than TFA and TLJ.

 

[fireproof78]

Disney Star Wars isn't as good as the EU. Rebels is even better than TFA and TLJ.

I respect your opinion, but I'll disagree. I'm far more invested in the ST characters than I ever was with Jacen or Jania, despite reading The Young Jedi and New Jedi Order series several times over. It just didn't click with me.

And there is nothing wrong with Rebels either. The more the merrier I say.

 

[DarKush]

I respect your opinion, but I'll disagree. I'm far more invested in the ST characters than I ever was with Jacen or Jania, despite reading The Young Jedi and New Jedi Order series several times over. It just didn't click with me.

And there is nothing wrong with Rebels either. The more the merrier I say.

Fair enough. To each his own. I did like Anakin Solo more than either Jacen or Jaina. I didn't read the Young Jedi series. I got into the Solo kids really with the New Jedi Order. But I did like Jaina and Jacen more than Rey and Ben. I liked the cold, methodical slide into the dark side of Jacen than the tantrum-prone, unstable Ben. And Jaina was a better developed character than Rey. But somethings don't click for people and there's nothing wrong with that. The sequel films don't click for me.

 

[fireproof78]

Fair enough. To each his own. I did like Anakin Solo more than either Jacen or Jaina. I didn't read the Young Jedi series. I got into the Solo kids really with the New Jedi Order. But I did like Jaina and Jacen more than Rey and Ben. I liked the cold, methodical slide into the dark side of Jacen than the tantrum-prone, unstable Ben. And Jaina was a better developed character than Rey. But somethings don't click for people and there's nothing wrong with that. The sequel films don't click for me.

The best part is, we can have both

 

[DarKush]

The best part is, we can have both

True, and for me, there's still the Marvel comics which I do enjoy. Except the sequel-related comics.

 

[fireproof78]

True, and for me, there's still the Marvel comics which I do enjoy. Except the sequel-related comics.

Star Wars is an expansive universe. Not everything is for everybody and it doesn't have to be.

 

[USS Firefly]

The best part is, we can have both

And that is indeed a good thing.

Hate is a big word but I really dislike the ST but you can't make something that everybody like.
I only hope that we get a couple of old Republic novels, a Dooku or a decent Revan book etc.

 

[Tuskin38]

Zahn says he has a deal for 2 more Thrawn books

https://twitter.com/parksandcons/status/997978976957034496?s=21

 

[The Wormhole]

All I'll say is 1% is not insignificant especially in this internet age where a small group of very excited people can drum up some attention and support.

Obviously Disney felt otherwise, and since their decision is raking them in all kinds of money, that decision seems to be working for them.

To me, your point would seem to suggest that there shouldn't be any kinds of nods and/or Easter Eggs to fans in Star Wars or any other franchises for that matter,

Easter eggs are fine, but there is no way anyone who sits down to take over the Star Wars franchise with plans to do new movies is going to choose to adhere to continuity from twenty year old novels. Simply put, you need to bring in a new audience, and new Star Wars movies are going to excite people and bring them into theatres, telling them they're connected to novels from twenty years earlier is likely to scare them away, feeling they don't have time to catch up on all that backstory.