Star Wars and slavery

[Nerdius Maximus]

In TPM, Padme seems shocked that slavery still exists outside of the Republic. But aren't the clone troopers slaves? Sure, she doesn't like the idea of using them at first, but after awhile everyone acts as if it's completely normal to breed people for a specific purpose, which in this case is battle. Seems kind of an immoral thing to just accept, with no one ever mentioning that they think it's wrong. Are the clones free to leave the army and pursue their own ambitions? What happens if a clone says, "Fuck this war shit, I'm going to start my own business?" Would this be allowed? I find it hard to swallow that they'd all just be going along with the whole thing of their own free will. Sure, they all start out the same, but they'd have to develop their own personalities based on their respective environments. So to me, the Jedi and the Republic don't really have the moral high ground here, willing as they are to utilize these clones in their war against the separatists. I just think it's weird that this never really gets brought up.

 

[cbspock]

I think you start seeing how diverse the clones are in the Clone Wars series.


-Chris

 

[Hermiod]

I think you start seeing how diverse the clones are in the Clone Wars series.

There's an episode specifically about this.

 

[exodus]

Agianst them at first?

She was against them & the war the entire prequel series.

Besides, aren't they created on Kamino? A planet that falls outside Republic jurisdiction?
Plus by watching the Clone Wars, you learn the Jedi don't treat the clones as property or slaves. They treat them as equals. However like Droids, Clones are engineered to obey those that serve the Republic.

However, this is war. There are no moral rules to war, either you win or you don't. Clone or not, are soldiers allowed to resign from duty during times of war?

 

[V]

the Republic used the clone army because it "mysteriously already existed" and because they desperately needed but

but keep in mind, by Day One of the Clone War onwards, Palpatine was increasingly turning the Republic into a proto-Empire through "wartime emergency powers"

**yeah, an episode of the Clone Wars TV show directly addresses this; it turns out a clone trooper has turned traitor and been sabotaging stuff, and when captured, its revealed that he's not brainwashed or anything: he's honestly come to the conclusion, that he thinks its wrong that the clones are being made to fight and die in the Republic's wars.

But I mean, they do say: most of the clone troopers are bred with mental conditioning to make them loyal and not question orders that much; only a few advanced units like the ARC troopers (and Boba Fett) didn't get the mental conditioning.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

According to the Visual Dictionary for ROTS, clones past their prime are allowed to retire, get jobs, and live their own lives. Many of them are in ROTS as firemen, trash men, and other background extras on Coruscant.

 

[Lindley]

The Republic Commando novels deal with this question somewhat. Nominally clones are free to leave the army if they wish, but when one tries....it doesn't go well for them.

Think of it from their point of view, though. They don't have to guess about their purpose in life----they know it. And they're good at their jobs, too. That's got to be worth something.

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

I don't know much about the clones, since I have not paid much attention to the prequel trilogy, but in the original trilogy one could take issue with how the droids are essentially slaves. The stories treat them as characters with consciousnesses and emotions. However, the humans--including the good guys--purchase them, order them around, and send them on dangerous missions without their consent. Uncle Owen seemed to have no qualms about erasing their memories when convenient.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Yeah, I remember an article about ANH in which the writer was allowed through the archives of unused footage. Apparently, there a was (cut) small exchange between Luke and Threepio wherein Luke goes to put his restraining bolt back on and Threepio cringes. Luke then leaves it off.

 

[hyzmarca]

The issue of droid rights is probably the biggest problem in the entire Republic, and one that is conveniently ignored. The Jedi are able to justify this racism because Droids lack a living presence in the Force, and are affected by the Force as if they were inanimate objects rather than living beings, but those who work closely with droids see this as little more than a cop-out.

 

[V]

as for the issue of the droids and slavery, which is even in the Original Trilogy...

....fundamentally, Star Wars is based on Japanese Samurai period-pieces, particularly "Hidden Fortress". C-3PO and R2-D2 are directly based on a pair of bungling slave characters -- medieval Japan had slave-serfs the way medieval Europe did. Indeed, it was considered a noteworthy film BECAUSE it was innovative to tell the film from the POV of the slave-servant characters (the ancient comic formula of tall thin man and short fat man)

so the problem is that Star Wars is BASICALLY, like a Japanese, or even like....imagine like King Arthur stories, set IN SPACE: but even like, medieval Europe Arthurian stuff has "serfs" who are basically slaves. How do you reconcile this with modern stuff?

I mean, Lord of the Rings, Aragorn becomes king of a feudal state: do you have a serf-Gondorian stand out of the crowd and say "I thought we were an Anarcho-Syndicalist commune!" (Aragorn proceeds to beat the peasant to silence him) "Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help help I'm being repressed!"

 

[miraclefan]

^HA-HA THATS FUNNY!

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Hi! I'm here on behalf of George Lucas! Could you all look this way for just a second?

*Waves hand slightly*

There are no plot holes in Star Wars.

Thank you.

 

[Praetor]

^

Good GL impersonation. Now do the part where he re-edits the OT.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

^

Good GL impersonation. Now do the part where he re-edits the OT.

*waves hand slightly*

Re-edits? I'm sorry, but the OT has ALWAYS looked this way...you must be mistaken.

 

[VulcanJedi]

as for the issue of the droids and slavery, which is even in the Original Trilogy...

....fundamentally, Star Wars is based on Japanese Samurai period-pieces, particularly "Hidden Fortress". C-3PO and R2-D2 are directly based on a pair of bungling slave characters -- medieval Japan had slave-serfs the way medieval Europe did. Indeed, it was considered a noteworthy film BECAUSE it was innovative to tell the film from the POV of the slave-servant characters (the ancient comic formula of tall thin man and short fat man)

so the problem is that Star Wars is BASICALLY, like a Japanese, or even like....imagine like King Arthur stories, set IN SPACE: but even like, medieval Europe Arthurian stuff has "serfs" who are basically slaves. How do you reconcile this with modern stuff?

I mean, Lord of the Rings, Aragorn becomes king of a feudal state: do you have a serf-Gondorian stand out of the crowd and say "I thought we were an Anarcho-Syndicalist commune!" (Aragorn proceeds to beat the peasant to silence him) "Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help help I'm being repressed!"

ha ha. This is funny. I just don't know, sometimes in the wee hours, I too am burdened with thoughts of droid oppresion and such, but I don't know.

we're all equal, but some are more equal than others.

The republic was corrupt!

 

[darkwing_duck1]

^In many ways, yes it was. So were the Jedi.

 

[Praetor]

It's ironic that the Star Wars universe, with its supposed simplicity of absolute right and wrong, is riddled with gray areas and direct hypocrisy.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

It's ironic that the Star Wars universe, with its supposed simplicity of absolute right and wrong, is riddled with gray areas and direct hypocrisy.

What are you, some kind of Hutt or Toydarian?

*Waves hand more vigorously*

There are no plot holes in Star Wars!

 

[Meredith]

In the Star Wars Universe would Data have freedom?