Star Trek's Sexist Legacy

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Danja, Jul 15, 2020.

  1. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Especially after Spock set two precedents about actively avoiding mentioning family members until he had to.
    For all we know, he has 17 uncles, 5 aunts, 147 cousins that we never heard about and then three more half siblings on top of it.
     
  2. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    Oh, sorry! I mixed up Garak and Dukat. They wanted to create a relationship between Kira and Dukat and Visitor said no.
     
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  3. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What about a relationship between Garak, Bashir, Dukat and Kira?
     
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  4. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Dukat lusts only for power... :drool:

    :devil:

    :guffaw:
     
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  5. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And either way still did. I don't need TV characters of the same identity as me in order to enjoy them. Not that many exist but before I digress-- My (same sex) ex was the opposite in that regard, enough people in the show if not all simply had to be gay or have a gay theme or else he wouldn't give a flip.

    On the flip side, Garak & Bashir would be a lot more interesting, and not as stereotyped either, had they really gone that route.

    On edit: Minor revision for clarification
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To be fair, she wasn't interested in just sticking it out for one more year. Yes, Berman appears to have been a total ass when it came to negotiating (or refusing to negotiate, as the case was). However, Farrell wanted to pick up a lot of outside work, thus wanted to limit her appearances on DS9. By her own admission, she did not talk to Behr about reducing her work load or shifting her character to recurring talent. Berman, not wanting to lose the series sex appeal, was unwilling to compromise. The idea that she would get paid more to stay is something of a non-starter: most of the cast had already signed their season seven contracts largely for the same amount of money. This could have caused problems with production. The sexism she experienced was really more Farrell's awakening to the situation. For most of the previous season, she probably had little contact with Berman. It was probably a happy time as Behr called her "rogue-ish" and Burton referred to her as "Action Barbie"
     
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  7. ananta

    ananta Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thank the Prophets they did listen to her! That would have been a horrendous misstep. Dukat is a narcissistic creep with a fetish for Bajoran women worshipping him. I’d have lost all respect for both Kira and the writers if she’d fallen for his dubious ‘charms’. Plus, that would have been a real punch in the gut for Odo, huh! He thought Shakaar was bad.
     
  8. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    Plus Dukat committed genocide on Kira's people. There is no possible facet of reality where her falling for him would make any amount of sense. What where they even thinking?

    Though I gotta say I was never a fan of the Kira/Odo pairing either.
     
  9. 1001001

    1001001 Inventor of the Air Force Moderator

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    And Kai Winn
     
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  10. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That was a decent article, though I was upset they didn't even mention ENT in passing to note they tried to pull the "Seven trick" again with T'Pol. Plus the level of sexual exploitation was actually greater than in any previous series (the silly decon gel rubdowns, having T'Pol go through Pon Farr, etc).

    It could be viewed that way. However, the way the first two episodes were composed made it unclear, insofar as Michael's first instinct was to shoot first, and we never got to see what would have happened if the Shenzhou shot first. T'Kuvma's dialogue certainly made it sound like the Federation response was the wrong one. I honestly put it down to a series of bad rewrites of whatever Fuller originally intended making the opening thematically incoherent - not any agenda however.

    In the second season DIS became explicit that Michael had flaws, and the flaws were meant to be seen as such, but over the first season it was at best implied. Honestly the way Michael was treated reminded me of how VOY dealt with Janeway - how if any episode introduced a conflict between her and another member of the crew, Janeway had to be proven right by the end of the episode. I think this - along with the odd decision at the start to frame everything from her POV - is what turned some people off, because it made it feel like the primary purpose of the scripts was to "shill the character" by presenting her as this hyper-competent genius who is morally upright and knows how to kick butt. The thing is, people tend to like characters more due to being able to personally identify with them than idolize them (hence all the first season love for Tilly), or simply finding them to have an interesting perspective (hence Saru). I feel like they would have had more luck if they played into her unique backstory/bicultural heritage more, and let some of the other characters take turns being the "action hero" for the week.
     
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  11. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

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    Now hear me out...

    How about a relationship between Kira and Kair Winn?


    (joking of course)
     
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  12. flandry84

    flandry84 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    /\If the show was being made now,that would be the starting point of the series.:angel:
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    And I do with Michael.
     
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  14. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Captain Captain

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    Nana Visitor was recently asked (in one of her appearances at the "Social Club" sessions of Sid Cty) if she got any sort of recognition as an important female chracter, and she aid none, on the contrary... at the time. Only now she does get some recognition.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAcWC8hLx_g79az-zGYeXtw (I think it's in the first video with her)

    It's really a shame. And I agree that I hated they put her in a more catsuit-like uniform, complete with high heels. Still do.

    Btw., there are some recent podcasts examining the same topic (women/ sexism on ST), e.g. Inglorious Treksperts: https://anchor.fm/inglorious-treksperts/episodes/THE-WOMEN-w-GABRIELLE-STANTON-eghg8m/a-a2lo5mc and... I'll try to retrieve the others. Aah, found one: This is about the (lack of) f/f or even f/m friendships, and how they are depicted as compared to m/m friendships. Women At Warp 141: Ooo, You’re My Best Friend https://www.womenatwarp.com/episode-141-best-friends/

    Gah, my keyboard is acting up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  15. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Quark would place bets on how many hours Winn would last before she was thrown out the airlock... or how long it would take before an "accident" happened.
     
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  16. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    However, Kira remained the same character. She still portrayed a masculinity in her attitudes and mannerisms, and they could revisit the same tensions that motivated the character in season 1 in season 7, highlingting the character's, and the actor's, growth.
     
  17. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Captain Captain

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    I would rather call it a less traditionally feminine attitude than "masculine," but I agree it would have been worse if they had revamped her character, too.
     
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  18. Danja

    Danja Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yay! Foursome! :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:


    I was never crazy about Seven sleeping with Chakotay. (She's having an affair with the man who ordered her killed! :eek: )
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  19. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :guffaw:

    Love does strange things.

    That, or he killed her with kindness...

    ...his big, throbbing kindness. :devil: I know that'd win me over! :devil:
     
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  20. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They did give Visitor a chance to vamp it up on occasion - like as the Intendant, and in some of the holodeck episodes.