Star Trek XI's sick and twisted irony...

[CosmicQuestion]

In the film Spock tell Uhura that he's now a member of an endangered species but it has been established that Romulans ARE Vulcans who left their homeworld to follow a different philosophy. As far as we know the Romulan homeworld still exists in the new timeline.

This would make Nero's act more akin to suicide... But he was a nut anyway.

He finds out his adopted homeworld is destroyed so goes to destroy his 'original' homeworld... WHAT!?!?

Spock was always talkin about reunification because they are the same peoples. Someone should've remember this when plotting the movie.

Maybe I missed something though. If you can explain the situation to me I'd appreciate it because I DID enjoy the movie.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Sector 7]

Nero was insane. He dismisses Pike's factual statement that Romulus still exists, because it hasn't yet been destroyed. "Don't tell me it hasn't happened! I saw it happen!"

Spock's statement about being part of an endangered species was to his Log, not Uhura. At this point in time, it was only known that "Romulans and Vulcans share a common ancestry"; hence Spock needing to board the Narada. Spock Prime is the only one who knows for sure that Vulcans and Romulans are the same.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In the film Spock tell Uhura that he's now a member of an endangered species but it has been established that Romulans ARE Vulcans who left their homeworld to follow a different philosophy. As far as we know the Romulan homeworld still exists in the new timeline.

Spock was being somewhat "hyperbolic" with his statement. Romulans are Vulcanoids but not Vulcan in a cultural sense or "national" sense. Vulcans as a unique culture are endangered by their reduced numbers.

This would make Nero's act more akin to suicide... But he was a nut anyway.

Patricide, fratricide or genocide.

He finds out his adopted homeworld is destroyed so goes to destroy his 'original' homeworld... WHAT!?!?

To paraphrase John Bigboote, "its not his goddamn planet." Romulans have no particular love for Vulcan or Vulcan culture/philosophy.

Spock was always talkin about reunification because they are the same peoples. Someone should've remember this when plotting the movie.

Who's to say they didn't? Spock's quest for unification would explain why he worked so hard to save Romulas.

 

[-Brett-]

This would make Nero's act more akin to suicide... But he was a nut anyway.

In no way was his act at all akin to suicide.

 

[F. King Daniel]

In the film Spock tell Uhura that he's now a member of an endangered species but it has been established that Romulans ARE Vulcans who left their homeworld to follow a different philosophy. As far as we know the Romulan homeworld still exists in the new timeline.

This would make Nero's act more akin to suicide... But he was a nut anyway.

He finds out his adopted homeworld is destroyed so goes to destroy his 'original' homeworld... WHAT!?!?

Spock was always talkin about reunification because they are the same peoples. Someone should've remember this when plotting the movie.

Maybe I missed something though. If you can explain the situation to me I'd appreciate it because I DID enjoy the movie.

Thanks for your time.

The movie made several references to Vulcans and Romulans sharing a common ancestry. One of the writers, Bob Orci, cites "Spock's World", which (along with "The Romulan Way") details the origins of the Vulcan/Romulan schizm. They knew very well what they were writing.

The Nazis and Jews were both human. That didn't stop Hitler. Countless other genocides mark our history. People being murdered because of different belief systems. Do you think a Jewish WWII survivior would be comforted because you told him "the Nazis are human too"??

 

[Set Harth]

Spock was always talkin about reunification because they are the same peoples. Someone should've remember this when plotting the movie.

Yeah, it's too bad the film didn't highlight Spock's Ambassador status as introduced in Unification, or have him spearhead an attempt to save Romulus. Stupid writers.

 

[Valin]

Also, the Japanese originally came from mainland China. They didn't treat the Chinese like long lost relatives during WW2. A Romulan destroying Vulcan doesn't really seem that much of a stretch.

 

[SeerSGB]

Plus: Nero was fucking nuts. The man wasn't thinking about anything further than "Spock killed my wife and my planet, so I'm going to kill his planet and make him watch". There was no more thought behind Nero's action than getting even with Spock. He was running on rage and pain, nothing more.

 

[CosmicQuestion]

Thanks for the input, it really did clear things up for me. The real world analogies reminds me how destructive different ideologies can potentially be, even when people live next door to each other let alone over greater distances.

The various TV series never really showed much commonality between the two groups come to think of it. Geez, I should've posted this right after I seen the movie instead of waiting all this time in confusion on the matter.

 

[Amaris]

Plus: Nero was fucking nuts. The man wasn't thinking about anything further than "Spock killed my wife and my planet, so I'm going to kill his planet and make him watch". There was no more thought behind Nero's action than getting even with Spock. He was running on rage and pain, nothing more.

Yeah, there's evidence all throughout the movie that Nero snapped. His goal is an obsessive one born from horrible, deep, personal tragedy, and his solution is unreasonable and psychotic. He's nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake. Anyone expecting sane behavior from him doesn't understand this point.

 

[Captain Fine]

Spock was always talkin about reunification because they are the same peoples. Someone should've remember this when plotting the movie.

Yeah, it's too bad the film didn't highlight Spock's Ambassador status as introduced in Unification, or have him spearhead an attempt to save Romulus. Stupid writers.

The Jellyfish ship welcomes Quinto's Spock as "Ambassador Spock".

 

[Therin of Andor]

The Jellyfish ship welcomes Quinto's Spock as "Ambassador Spock".

Bazinga!

 

[JarodRussell]

Well, Ambassador to what? I guess Set Harth and CosmicQuestion meant that they never hinted at Spock's involvement in the Unification process... or the Unification process at all. Which is sad because it's an important piece of the drama. Spock failed to reunite Vulcan and Romulus in his own universe, and caused the destruction of Vulcan in the alternate universe. Actually, it's pretty damn tough what the writers did with Nimoy-Spock. It's almost like killing off Newt, Bishop and Hicks right at the beginning of Alien 3 after everything they endured in Aliens.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Ambassador to Romulus, I assumed. Nemesis ended with the Romulans and Federation on good terms, and in STXI we see Spock meeting with the Romulan leadership in the open, and promising them that he'd save their planet. His identity and postition is known to Nero and Ayel ("Do you know the location of Ambassador Spock?" Ayel asks Robau at the start)

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, Ambassador to what? I guess Set Harth and CosmicQuestion meant that they never hinted at Spock's involvement in the Unification process... or the Unification process at all. Which is sad because it's an important piece of the drama. Spock failed to reunite Vulcan and Romulus in his own universe, and caused the destruction of Vulcan in the alternate universe. Actually, it's pretty damn tough what the writers did with Nimoy-Spock. It's almost like killing off Newt, Bishop and Hicks right at the beginning of Alien 3 after everything they endured in Aliens.

Does it really matter to the average movie goer? Stuff like that is in there for the fans.

 

[horatio83]

The various TV series never really showed much commonality between the two groups come to think of it.

Actually they did. The Vulcan three-parter in the last season of Enterprise is probably the best example.
Romulans are basically Vulcans that have found another way to deal with their powerful emotions, they do not suppress them but channel them into imperialism: unlimited expansion. Anybody who disagree with this dogma feels the power of the Tal Shiar, just like anybody who questions the Vulcan dogma of emotional suppression becomes a pariah.

 

[Therin of Andor]

they never hinted at Spock's involvement in the Unification process...

And every ST fan in the room was grinning in realization.

But did you want the general film goers to be asking, "Is there a previous ST production I should have watched before coming to see this?" "Did I already miss something important?"

And, you know that the avid ST fans would have been saying, "Stop spoon feeding us the history of ST. We know all that, just get on with the new stuff! JJ Abrams is insulting our intelligence."

Yeah, well I guess some fans were saying that last line since the announcement that Bad Robot was making ST films for Paramount.

 

[horatio83]

I wasn't grinning because the movie did not say anything about Vulcan-Romulan relations. They could have cut down the pew-pew and focused more upon it. Pity that two movies with Romulans in a row fail to be really about Romulans in order not to say totally mess them up. I guess this is meant to happen if you try to copy TWOK.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Pity that two movies with Romulans in a row fail to be really about Romulans in order not to say totally mess them up. I guess this is meant to happen if you try to copy TWOK.

ST III changed their Romulans into Klingons for a reason. General audiences probably would have been confused by pointy-eared bad guys in a movie when Sarek, Saavik, young Spock, Older Spock and T'Lar are the pointy-eared good guys. It takes valuable screen time to present the complex backstory.

Similarly, NEM gave us a human clone, created by Romulans, and his Reman buddies (and Donatra!), and JJ's ST gives us tattooed Romulan miners. In any case, TNG probably visited the regular Romulans enough in TNG. "Unification" explored their potential pretty well.

 

[Silent_Bob]

In the film Spock tell Uhura that he's now a member of an endangered species but it has been established that Romulans ARE Vulcans who left their homeworld to follow a different philosophy. As far as we know the Romulan homeworld still exists in the new timeline.

This would make Nero's act more akin to suicide... But he was a nut anyway.

He finds out his adopted homeworld is destroyed so goes to destroy his 'original' homeworld... WHAT!?!?

Spock was always talkin about reunification because they are the same peoples. Someone should've remember this when plotting the movie.

Maybe I missed something though. If you can explain the situation to me I'd appreciate it because I DID enjoy the movie.

Thanks for your time.

Nero's motivation makes as much sense as Shinzon trying to wipe out the Federation even though it was the bloody Romulans who had kept him enslaved his entire life.

It's a consequence of trying once again to mimic The Wrath of Khan by introducing a bad guy that'll seek revenge on one of our heroes. It didnt work in Nemesis, and it didnt work in nuTrek.

Other than the imbecilic understanding the writers displayed of Black Holes and Supernovas, it was by far the weakest element of the film.
Hopefully for nuTrek 2 they will have hired a better scientific advisor, and finally let go of the notion that every other Star Trek movie has to be a tiresome retread of TWOK.