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Star Trek Vanguard: In Tempest's wake by Dayton Ward

Now, Christopher, don't get me wrong, but you say the option is there for anyone who's willing to use it. Now, I'm appereantly not willing, simply because it's not my cup of tea. You make it sound like I have a choice. But I don't, not really. If I want to read these books, I'm not given an option how to read it. The only option I have is to read or not to read, to buy or not to buy.

You do have a choice. You could choose to read e-books occasionally, even while preferring paper books. That's what I do. That's what I'm sure a lot of people do. But for whatever reason, you instead choose an absolute, inflexible refusal to read an e-book even once in a while. That absolute refusal to make any exception whatsoever to your normal pattern is entirely your own choice.

Obviously nobody is trying to prevent any given consumer from reading this book. It's for sale to anyone willing to pay for it. So the only thing keeping you from getting it is your own lack of willingness. That makes it a consequence of your choice.


Now, from a sales point of view (I work in a store, I know a thing or two about sales) that's kind weird. You basicly want to eliminate the option of not buying, and give your consumers choice. You this by giving people several options, not just one. We make sure we sell several versions of one type of item (say a coffee machine) so people can make a choice that way.

But as I've explained, the current print market offers zero options for the publication of novella-length media tie-in stories. That's simply not going to happen. E-books are what enable that option to exist in the first place. So publishing e-books does increase the number of options available -- maybe not for you as an individual, but for the audience as a whole. After all, the audience doesn't share a single uniform taste. Some people prefer print books, others prefer e-books, others prefer comics. Some prefer adult fiction, others young-adult fiction. Some prefer mass-market paperbacks, others prefer hardcovers. So it only makes sense to put out multiple products targeted to all those different audiences. Sure, if a specific customer is unwilling to give a particular format a try -- for instance, if someone doesn't believe in reading comic books, or doesn't buy hardcovers because they're too expensive -- their choice not to purchase that format will keep them from experiencing the work. But because there's a breadth of material available in different formats, there will still be something else they can enjoy. So collectively, there's something for everyone. And those customers who are willing to sample different formats can experience everything. Again, it comes down to the customers' choice of which formats they are or aren't willing to buy. There's no obligation to make every story available in every format simultaneously, otherwise there'd have to be a novelization of every comic book and vice-versa.




I don't understand the whole "not comfortable" thing as a reason for absolutely refusing to read an e-book even occasionally. Do you really expect me to believe that you've never, ever felt the slightest bit uncomfortable reading a paper book? That you've never sat in the same chair too long and gotten stiff and sore, or read a big heavy hardcover that made your arms ache to hold, or got a paper cut turning a page, or got eyestrain because the text was really small? You've never once in your entire life been willing to read under circumstances that weren't absolutely free of discomfort?

I just don't understand the absolutism of your position here. Preference for paper over e-books, I can understand. I have the same preference. But I still read e-books occasionally, particularly if it's the only or most feasible way to read a story I'm interested in. I don't understand an absolute refusal.

For that matter, if reading on a screen is so intolerable for you, then how are we having this conversation? Are you dictating your posts to a friend?




As I said before, if the work itself is enjoyable enough, then you don't even notice the discomfort of the reading situation.


It's a very simple step for Pocket books to take two or three of these novella's and publishing them in a collected works. It's a freaking win-win situation!! They sell both e-books AND hardcopies.

Two or three, no. Four to eight, yes, of course, as they've already done fourteen times with e-book collections, so it's pretty disingenuous of you to be talking about it as if it were some daring idea that they were unwilling to contemplate. It just takes time, as I've explained.


Just to throw in my two cents into this. I prefer the dead tree format myself, but I have no objection to E-Book (my wife has a Nook Color so I could use that). My major gripe right now is the pricing model. Currently a physical MMPB book sells for $7.99 for anywhere from 300 to 400+ pages. However, the E-Book cost is $5.99 for a novella that is typically only a third to half that size. I have a hard time mentally jumping that "hurdle".

But compare it to the price of a hardcover (typically 25-28 dollars for about the same page count) or a comic book (around 4 dollars for under 2 dozen pages of story) or a DVD of a feature film (maybe 15-20 dollars for an amount of story equivalent to a short novel). If anything, the price of MMPBs is an exceptional bargain.

And while you're right about the price for The Struggle Within, didn't I read that In Tempest's Wake will be $3.99? I imagine TSW was priced more steeply because it was a test case and they weren't sure whether it would sell in enough quantity to let them make a profit at a lower price point. Since the experiment worked and they're publishing more, maybe that means they feel a lower price can be profitable. New things often go down in price once they become established and popular.

Sitting behind the computer reading a few posts is one thing, reading entire texts is another. There is a difference. I've tried reading fanfiction, I just get completely uncomfortable after a while. Can't help it.
As for the e-reader... perhaps that is more a psychological thing that physical. But everytime I've tried reading with something like it, or on a smartphone, it just doesn't work. The e-reader feels clumsy, the phone to small.

And I have tried. It just isn't working for me.

As for my comments about releasing them as a collected works, I didn't realize you needed so many novella's to make it costeffective. I figured with the average length of a novel, three would do the trick. Ofcourse it makes it a different matter altogether if it doesn't become costeffective.
But to me, buying a device that average at about 70 euro's, to read 2 or 3 novels I've wanted as e-books sofar just doesn't justify it for me. It's not costeffective for me personally.
 
E-books are shit and I would advise anyone not to buy any of these novellas so S&S will think twice about future releases.
 
I've never understood why so many people seem to have so much of a problem with e-books.

Remember that everyone is different.

What we all like is thus different.

It's similar to the old saying, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If we were all the same, liked the same things and had the same opinion on things, life would be very boring and uninteresting.

If you take that all into account, then maybe, you'll start to understand.

Remember that everyone is different.

What we all like is thus different.

It's similar to the old saying, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If we were all the same, liked the same things and had the same opinion on things, life would be very boring and uninteresting.

If you take that all into account, then maybe, you'll start to understand.

Well said!!
I didn't mean what I said as attack. I'm not saying there's something wrong with not liking e-books. I just don't see why people would have a problem with it.

Well I didn't see it as an "attack" more as a frustration at not understanding why someone would hold an opinion counter to your own.

When faced with such a thing, just remember what I said earlier and also: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
 
E-books are shit and I would advise anyone not to buy any of these novellas so S&S will think twice about future releases.


I wouldn't go that far. I just (personally) feel that it would be nicer to have a choice between paper or bytes. But, as I said earlier, I had no idea the costs into publishing novella's on paper (even as a collected set) was so expensive.
 
Sitting behind the computer reading a few posts is one thing, reading entire texts is another. There is a difference. I've tried reading fanfiction, I just get completely uncomfortable after a while. Can't help it.

Well, you don't have to read a whole novella in one sitting. That's what chapter breaks are for. ;)


As for my comments about releasing them as a collected works, I didn't realize you needed so many novella's to make it costeffective. I figured with the average length of a novel, three would do the trick.

Trek e-books tend to be in the 25 to 35,000-word range, so theoretically you could get an MMPB out of just three. But the MMPB schedule is constrained to one per month, so putting in an e-book omnibus in that format would require bumping an original novel. I assume that's why the SCE collections went from MMPB to trade paperback after Pocket went from releasing two MMPBs a month to just one. So probably an omnibus would have to wait until there are enough for a TPB, which, going by past precedent, would mean 4-6 novellas depending on length. And the trades haven't come out on a predictable schedule; we're still waiting for the eight Corps of Engineers installments and Slings and Arrows.


But, as I said earlier, I had no idea the costs into publishing novella's on paper (even as a collected set) was so expensive.

It's not that it costs a lot to print them, it's just that it wouldn't be profitable because there's no print market for such short books anymore. Book buyers have become accustomed to getting tomes that are at least 300 pages long, and interest in shorter books has dried up. Also, bookstores prefer ordering books that have higher price points so that they can make more profit from them, and that's contributed to the pressure for longer books.
 
Just to throw in my two cents into this. I prefer the dead tree format myself, but I have no objection to E-Book (my wife has a Nook Color so I could use that). My major gripe right now is the pricing model. Currently a physical MMPB book sells for $7.99 for anywhere from 300 to 400+ pages. However, the E-Book cost is $5.99 for a novella that is typically only a third to half that size. I have a hard time mentally jumping that "hurdle".

But compare it to the price of a hardcover (typically 25-28 dollars for about the same page count) or a comic book (around 4 dollars for under 2 dozen pages of story) or a DVD of a feature film (maybe 15-20 dollars for an amount of story equivalent to a short novel). If anything, the price of MMPBs is an exceptional bargain.

And while you're right about the price for The Struggle Within, didn't I read that In Tempest's Wake will be $3.99? I imagine TSW was priced more steeply because it was a test case and they weren't sure whether it would sell in enough quantity to let them make a profit at a lower price point. Since the experiment worked and they're publishing more, maybe that means they feel a lower price can be profitable. New things often go down in price once they become established and popular.

I sincerely hope that they do cut the price of the TSW novella down to that price point as with TW. That price is more palatable. I did notice on B&N that Corps of Engineers e-books are listed at 5.99-6.99 in a bunch of cases.

Mike
 
Another impediment to the bundling-for-print strategy proposed in this thread is that, from a marketing perspective, it will be difficult to promote a paperback or trade paperback whose content spans different series, eras, and characters. A branded TPB such as SCE works for promotional purposes; combining TOS, TNG, DS9, and a player TBD would be a marketing headache.
 
Personally, what I expect to happen as publishers get more comfortable with digital technology in a post-DRM era is that they are going to start collaborating with the already-existing service providers who offer print-to-order book binding. As reading increasingly moves to digital and ebook exclusives become more common, you're likely going find the option to order a printed copy that way in online stores, instead of the publisher doing a print run and putting it in brick and mortar stores. That means a codex will be a more expensive luxury option, but since you consider the experience to be better it shouldn't pain you to pay more for it, I guess. And it means you'll get back to having everything available in print again.

Alternatively, it's probably already legal to upload a DRM-free book file to one of those service providers and have a printed copy sent to you for your personal use entirely independent of buying the ebook (most anti-copying legislation revolves around breaking a copy protection mechanism that is absent in a DRM-free file, or around duplication for non-personal use). Of course this is moot at Star Trek titles are currently not yet available DRM-free, but check again in a year and I bet they will be.
 
E-books are shit and I would advise anyone not to buy any of these novellas so S&S will think twice about future releases.


I wouldn't go that far. I just (personally) feel that it would be nicer to have a choice between paper or bytes. But, as I said earlier, I had no idea the costs into publishing novella's on paper (even as a collected set) was so expensive.
If it makes you feel better, there are several Trek paperbacks that haven't been released in e-book form, so those of us who do the e-books are in the same situation you are when it comes to those books.
 
I've got an emotional attachment to dead tree format that won't go away just because I've got a Kindle. My LOTR, Trek etc. will remain on my shelves as physical books and I shall continue to purchase new titles as they come out.

That's not to say I don't love my Kindle - I do. I'm loading duplicates on to it for convenience (I may reach a point where I don't actually read my paper copies) and will be using it for stuff I read but don't 'collect'.

With regard to Trek novellas, I'll buy the download and again when collected in print.

For those of us with a lot of paper books we wish to 'digitise', you can't exactly copy them like you do CD's to an Ipod. I don't want to have to buy everything twice - has anyone come up with a proposal to get a digital copy WITH a paperback when you purchase ?
 
^ That will basically be a side-effect of the model I was proposing / anticipating above. As in, I would expect print-to-order to become an add-on option to the ebook purchase that might be slightly cheaper than buying two copies is right now.
 
I've got an emotional attachment to dead tree format that won't go away just because I've got a Kindle. My LOTR, Trek etc. will remain on my shelves as physical books and I shall continue to purchase new titles as they come out.

That's not to say I don't love my Kindle - I do. I'm loading duplicates on to it for convenience (I may reach a point where I don't actually read my paper copies) and will be using it for stuff I read but don't 'collect'.

With regard to Trek novellas, I'll buy the download and again when collected in print.

For those of us with a lot of paper books we wish to 'digitise', you can't exactly copy them like you do CD's to an Ipod. I don't want to have to buy everything twice - has anyone come up with a proposal to get a digital copy WITH a paperback when you purchase ?
They've been doing this with comics now for the last year or so. Both DC and Marvel have been packing a special code for a digital versions of the comics with some of their paper comic books. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody eventually started doing the same thing with paperbacks.
 
I've got an emotional attachment to dead tree format that won't go away just because I've got a Kindle. My LOTR, Trek etc. will remain on my shelves as physical books and I shall continue to purchase new titles as they come out.

That's not to say I don't love my Kindle - I do. I'm loading duplicates on to it for convenience (I may reach a point where I don't actually read my paper copies) and will be using it for stuff I read but don't 'collect'.

With regard to Trek novellas, I'll buy the download and again when collected in print.

For those of us with a lot of paper books we wish to 'digitise', you can't exactly copy them like you do CD's to an Ipod. I don't want to have to buy everything twice - has anyone come up with a proposal to get a digital copy WITH a paperback when you purchase ?
They've been doing this with comics now for the last year or so. Both DC and Marvel have been packing a special code for a digital versions of the comics with some of their paper comic books. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody eventually started doing the same thing with paperbacks.
Well, lets hope !

It shouldn't be expensive as they're already set up for the digital downloads, and I would think there's a fair few readers that would appreciate the 'both' rather than the 'either/or' option.

I'd even consider paying a SMALL premium to make it worth the publishers while - say $1.
 
Dunno, I still think we're eventually going to go to digital-with-optional-print rather than print-with-code-in-the-back.
 
That probably will happen eventually, but I would think free digital copy codes would probably come first.
 
I wish there were a way to get free (or at least hugely discounted) e-book versions of all the older books I have in print form. Or maybe some way to trade in older print books for the equivalent e-books. I mean, my shelves are getting pretty cluttered, and it would be handy to replace a lot of my books with e-books, but it would just be so expensive to buy duplicates of all those books I already own.
 
Yeah, Wal-Mart has actually started doing something like that for movies now. Apparently you can bring in old DVDs and get a digital version through Vudu (the now Wal-Mart owned) streaming video service. I would definitely do it if somebody did something like that for books. Most of my Harry Potter books are first editions that have been read so many times now that they're falling apart, and I would love to be able to replace them without having to buy copies again.
 
^ This is actually happening to some degree in the video game world. With some older games that have key-based copy protection schemes (i.e. there's a printed serial key somewhere in the box together with the CD that you're asked to enter during installation or at the start of the game), publishers have made deals with distribution platforms like Steam that allow you to enter the key into Steam and have the game added to your Steam account, so you can install it digitally via Steam.

It's also being done for some new games right of the bat. If you buy a copy of CD Projekt's fantasy epic The Witcher 2 in a brick and mortar store it's usable as-is without an online connection, but you can go to GOG.com (the excellent, DRM-free online game retailer run by the same company) and register your game there, which provides you with a DRM-free digital "backup copy" you can download at any time.
 
That probably will happen eventually, but I would think free digital copy codes would probably come first.
I can't see publishers doing this without raising the print price - otherwise I could get both versions for $6 from Amazon, or just the ebook for $8. I'd certainly appreciate it, but I don't think it's realistic. ;)
 
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