My brother is no Trekker, but he's seen some of the movies. When I put Trek V on for another viewing and watched it with him he actually laughed at a couple of the jokes - but he got confused at the end when he saw them rocks coming out of the ground. He actually thought he'd seen the movie before and when I told him it was new release ( at the time ) he insisted he'd seen that bit before - turns out it was the "V'Gers brain complex" ending of The Motion Picture that he was thinking of.
Star Trek V..... what the?
- Thread starter Computer
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The script is fatally flawed.
The resolution depends upon General Korrd exercising long-forgotten authority to save the day.
But, as he's presented throughgout as drunk, crude (even worse in the deleted scenes) and useless it's "out of left field."
Had they added just one earlier scene with Kirk alone with Korrd, reminding his of his past glory . . . it might have worked.
The resolution depends upon General Korrd exercising long-forgotten authority to save the day.
But, as he's presented throughgout as drunk, crude (even worse in the deleted scenes) and useless it's "out of left field."
Had they added just one earlier scene with Kirk alone with Korrd, reminding his of his past glory . . . it might have worked.
Editing will NOT fix the rocket shoes, nor the clumsy visuals of Kirk's falling off the face. Unless Shatner shot additional coverage, you'd have to cut virtually the entire slip, in which case the whole sequence should be cut.
Ascent = good.
Descent = very bad.
It's too bad because I think the Yosemite Suite by Jerry Goldsmith and the ascent by the stunt guy combine for a wonderful opening ... then comes the rest.
Explaining jokes, stating the obvious, Scotty being a buffoon and ... and ... just WAY too much to fix with editing. Character inconsistencies, indulgences ...
All that can be done is after it's all over, cut back to the campfire and have Uhura show up a "second" time, awakening Kirk who realizes that life, or in this case TFF, really WAS a dream.
--Ted
A
Amaris
Guest
Don't forget Sybok's effect upon him. Even Spock, as powerfully disciplined as he was, at one point, came close to teetering on the edge. Remember, Sybok was exceptionally skilled, as Spock said, he was expected to become one of the High Masters of Gol. The novelization is magnificent in that regard (I know it's not canon, but definitely worth a look). Sybok's influence on people was positive (aside from the kidnapping & stealing the ship). People felt better, felt free, felt alive. I have no doubt that Korrd had gained his sense of honor and dignity again by the end of the movie.
J.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
I remember pausing and editing a version of the fall about 10 years ago, duping from a laserdisc to vhs. It was crude, but basically by cutting ALL the process stuff, it works okay. You have the Yosemite fake wall dialog, then the slip, then the big stunt fall, followed by Spock at Yosemite starting to flip, but then you just use subjective POV stuff briefly, followed by the Spock has caught him shot. It makes it practically a real-time event, and it avoids that terrible awful process work.
That sounds interesting, trevanian... 
And, not to devalue your opinion, because if you believe that there are worse movies out there, then that's fine.
I suppose there's just a difference between the base of movies that you and I have seen.
And in your case, if A) Arnold Schwarnegger playing Mr. Freeze, B) David Spade playing a hick with a mullet, and C) Tom Green, starring in anything in any capacity, wasn't enough to sway you from seeing those movies in the first place, well... let's just say that maybe you have more movies to choose from than I do.
OK, OK, fair enough. I should plead guilty to picking the latter two examples as being just really bad movies, 'cause you're right, there's no way I'd ever sit through either of those flicks even for free (unfortunately, I did suffer a lapse in judgment and did see Batman and Robin...what can I say? I was in bed with the flu, you have to watch something)!It sounds like you've seen better movies than I have.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Peach Wookiee said:
That sounds interesting, trevanian...
That notion came out of an idea I once heard, something from Dennis Muren about George Lucas (the 70s era Lucas) ... Muren said that GL knew how to cut around a bad effects shot to minimize its negative impact.
That made me go back to thinking about my zero budget filmmaking technique, which was that you rarely show spaceships except via hull-mounted cameras, so hiding the support isn't an issue and you keep things subjective. Leading from that, it made sense that if you have bad effects shots, you just don't use them at all, rather than alienate the audience (and TFF was an ideal candidate in this regard ... the great barrier sequence benefits if you cut out the hokiest looking exterior shots, too.)
Speaking just for myself, I don't think I've ever seen a movie that NEEDED more than 500 visual effects shots, I think a lot of the vfx overkill these days could be curbed by doing some live-action (non fx) camera compositions that are interesting enough that you can hold on them for more than three seconds. If you did that with live-action, then you probably wouldn't need to keep cutting hysterically to shot after shot of vfx. I'm not advocating everybody shoot like M. Night, but I don't think it needs to be Bay's way or the highway either.
In all fairness, those movies probably are worse than TFF. It's just that when compared to the balance of stuff that I've seen, TFF happens to rank near the bottom.ClayinCA said:
It sounds like you've seen better movies than I have.
Just different perspectives. No biggie.
I actually did this on the PC, and he's right (although I found I had to speed up the POV fall). Maybe I'll put it up on YouTube with my early TFF Effects Replacement Test .
Sybok's plan to get a starship was kinda stupid
But oh well Admiral Hansen probably told him to do so, it worked after all...
The Feds should have totally owned those wannabee Tattoine residents, armed with a machine gun and... ahm...mirrors.
I especially hate the scenes with the flying boots (damn that was bad) and how Paradise city was a (badly made) poor man's Star Wars. The scenes between "Why does god..." and the BOP coming to the rescue were horribly done. Sometimes you don't even know what you're expected to see, and the FX were truly a pain to watch throughout.
I also think the actors look older than in ST 6 for some reason.
On the plus side I actually liked the Klingons. They were speaking in Klingon only(unlike in ST3), Vixis was cool, and after those Kling threats in ST4 they were a logical choice to be the villains.
I also liked how the Trio interacted in the movie. Plus the new ship interior sets and the music were working well.
Also, what this movie had was this "venturing into the unknown"-theme which made this an enjoyable flick for a one-time watch.
But the best thing about it was that I had the whole theater for myself
But oh well Admiral Hansen probably told him to do so, it worked after all...
The Feds should have totally owned those wannabee Tattoine residents, armed with a machine gun and... ahm...mirrors.
I especially hate the scenes with the flying boots (damn that was bad) and how Paradise city was a (badly made) poor man's Star Wars. The scenes between "Why does god..." and the BOP coming to the rescue were horribly done. Sometimes you don't even know what you're expected to see, and the FX were truly a pain to watch throughout.
I also think the actors look older than in ST 6 for some reason.
On the plus side I actually liked the Klingons. They were speaking in Klingon only(unlike in ST3), Vixis was cool, and after those Kling threats in ST4 they were a logical choice to be the villains.
I also liked how the Trio interacted in the movie. Plus the new ship interior sets and the music were working well.
Also, what this movie had was this "venturing into the unknown"-theme which made this an enjoyable flick for a one-time watch.
But the best thing about it was that I had the whole theater for myself
Oh? How would you get a starship on short order? Starting a hostage crisis in a politically touchy location seems like a pretty good way to guarantee some prompt response with a ship strong enough to make it through the Barrier, and if the Federation gets there first you're likely to have a starship captain you can talk logically with.
Yeah but what would have happened if
- The Roms or Klings would have turned up first?
- The Feds had wiped the floor with those stone-rifle-toting freaks, securing the perimeter and cope with Sybok and gang with 10 Starfleet Marines as backup?
- somebody on Enterprise had actually sent a security force to the shuttlebay- Kirk had quite some chances to (secretly) tell the crew something's wrong and they had great reason to be suspicious anyway (or at least check on the monitors what's going on).
Or are we to believe everyone on the bridge was so relieved they got away from the Klingons they didn't care? That's basically what the movie implies.
I mean what WAS Sybok's plan exactly? To overpower and mind-rape the leader of the starfleet force, then use the shuttle, sneak onto the ship and keep everybody in check with stone rifles and stolen phasers? All under the noses of the security officer? Force fields, sealed doors or aneastehsine gas would have stopped his stunt right there
Of course that's almost what he did, and it worked!!!
in the end, that fact does make the 1701A crew look stupid, yet it does not make Sybok's plan look any more smart.
On the other hand Sybok really is shocked when he realizes there won't be any negotiations and the Feds are attacking. What was he trying to negotiate? Freed hostages in exchange for a trip to the center of the galaxy?
But as I said, God told him and it worked.
- The Roms or Klings would have turned up first?
- The Feds had wiped the floor with those stone-rifle-toting freaks, securing the perimeter and cope with Sybok and gang with 10 Starfleet Marines as backup?
- somebody on Enterprise had actually sent a security force to the shuttlebay- Kirk had quite some chances to (secretly) tell the crew something's wrong and they had great reason to be suspicious anyway (or at least check on the monitors what's going on).
Or are we to believe everyone on the bridge was so relieved they got away from the Klingons they didn't care? That's basically what the movie implies.
I mean what WAS Sybok's plan exactly? To overpower and mind-rape the leader of the starfleet force, then use the shuttle, sneak onto the ship and keep everybody in check with stone rifles and stolen phasers? All under the noses of the security officer? Force fields, sealed doors or aneastehsine gas would have stopped his stunt right there
Of course that's almost what he did, and it worked!!!
in the end, that fact does make the 1701A crew look stupid, yet it does not make Sybok's plan look any more smart.On the other hand Sybok really is shocked when he realizes there won't be any negotiations and the Feds are attacking. What was he trying to negotiate? Freed hostages in exchange for a trip to the center of the galaxy?
But as I said, God told him and it worked.
Positives:
1. finally new fed shuttlecraft (not the TMP garbage). My 2nd favorite fed shuttlecraft (topped my the Generations update. When I saw it I cried tm.) Woooohoo!
2. McCoy, and his father. Wooohoo!
3. new Enterprise A bridge. my favorite fed bridge. Wooohoo!
4. The return of the Star Trek III fed communicators, and tricorders. My favorite fed designs. Wooohoo!
5. new shuttlebay (not TMP garbage). Woooohooo!
6. Pavel gets to sit in the center seat. Wooohoo!
7. We get an TNG style inside warp bubble shot of a Klingon bird of prey.
and 8. Pavel/Sybok, and Hikaru/Sybok mindmeld scenes...
oooh wait...these were in the prose novelization. Darn!
Negatives:
1. Star Trek III fed phaser pistols should have been used.
2. Klingons again!?
3. Starfleet uniforms should have been changed. I got tired of looking at dress uniforms.
5. Wrath of Khan ending outside warp bubble red streak warp effect used AGAIN. Gag!
6. No shield flares.
7. No Klingo K't'nga class ship.
1. finally new fed shuttlecraft (not the TMP garbage). My 2nd favorite fed shuttlecraft (topped my the Generations update. When I saw it I cried tm.) Woooohoo!
2. McCoy, and his father. Wooohoo!
3. new Enterprise A bridge. my favorite fed bridge. Wooohoo!
4. The return of the Star Trek III fed communicators, and tricorders. My favorite fed designs. Wooohoo!
5. new shuttlebay (not TMP garbage). Woooohooo!
6. Pavel gets to sit in the center seat. Wooohoo!
7. We get an TNG style inside warp bubble shot of a Klingon bird of prey.
and 8. Pavel/Sybok, and Hikaru/Sybok mindmeld scenes...
oooh wait...these were in the prose novelization. Darn!
Negatives:
1. Star Trek III fed phaser pistols should have been used.
2. Klingons again!?
3. Starfleet uniforms should have been changed. I got tired of looking at dress uniforms.
5. Wrath of Khan ending outside warp bubble red streak warp effect used AGAIN. Gag!
6. No shield flares.
7. No Klingo K't'nga class ship.
Actually, it was merely a repaint of the ballroom from "Coming to America". Shatner just painted over the goldleaf decor!
While it was a nice tip of the hat to the design of the TOS shuttlebay, the layout of the TMP shuttlebay made more sense.
And it looked AWFUL.
I thought the new "assault phasers" were pretty good.
I'm not understanding this "inside/outside warp bubble" thing. I agree that the TMP warp effect was superior, though.
Which would be consistent with what we'd seen previously in the films.
Likely. But other than the Klingon torpedo nothing was glaringly bad to me.
