"Star Trek: The Motion Picture" or _____?

[Mr. Spook]

The oft-referred to claim TMP was a remake of TOS' "The Changeling" has never been entirely accurate, since that episode had the advantage of audiences caring about the threat to the crew from Nomad.

Well, it wasn't a shot for shot remake, but the core plot was the same (not forgetting that TMP/Phase 2 was an update of an unused Genesis II script). Earth probe is launched, comes back evolved and is looking for its creator - intending to destroy Earth in the end. There's even a duplicate scene where the communication from the returning probe is too fast to be received. That's what people are referring to.

The main problem with TMP goes back to its inception and discussions of what the movie should be about. Every single BTS book about it shows that it never once approached it from a character standpoint. Every idea and treatment had to be some "event" or giant mind-bending SF concept that got the crew back together. They finally had to mumble some "Spock has a crisis" thing to Nimoy to get him interested. Kirk's arc is vague and show him to have lost his self awareness ("and I intend to keep her?"). And the strongest relationships are among two new characters nobody was waiting on line to see.

And maybe this another reason why I have less investment in TVH. Not just because of the comedy focus (which is a big minus for me) but because there's no strong character core. It's about whales and saving the Earth. Even Star Trek V was about people, even if the execution was flawed. This is why I feel the strongest scene in TMP is the "Spock weeps" moment cut from the theatrical. It's a solid character moment that ties up Spock's arc.

Star Trek (for me) always works best when the stakes for galaxy are low but the characters are high.

Having said all that, I love TMP dearly. It just doesn't feel much like what I watch Star Trek for, but I still consider it in the top 3 of my favorite Trek films. I love the story, the visuals and sense of discovery and the fact that it's mature and dead serious.

 

[DonIago]

I think Spock has a decent character arc in TVH. His line about rescuing Chekov not being the logical thing to do but being the human thing to do is wonderful, and continues ideas first raised in TWOK and deconstructed in TSFS.

 

[Riley]

The opposite. TFF captured the heart and many of the reasons audiences ever cared about the main characters in several scenes, justified in the plot--among the best in the franchise. TMP--depsite being closer to the TOS era--was utterly heartless, misguided and committed the biggest crime in having the main characters all act as if they wanted nothing to do with, or did not have endless experiences with each other which both built and tested their deep friendship.

The oft-referred to claim TMP was a remake of TOS' "The Changeling" has never been entirely accurate, since that episode had the advantage of audiences caring about the threat to the crew from Nomad. Stating the obvious, that is the way a threat is effectively written: the reader/viewer must care about the characters at risk, otherwise one will end up with the obvious: lifeless and often pointless, dragging exposition attempting to stand in for (what should be) the natural marriage of plot and its challenge to developed characters with a related purpose for responding to said plot. TMP gave audiences no true reason to care about anything, completely forgetting the essence what made TOS a global phenomenon, swapping that out for spectacle and elementary-school level, pseudo-philosophical droning feeling like anything other than what had been established in the series TMP was allegedly based on.

So, i'd rather watch TFF in a heartbeat over trying to watch the most misguided ST production ever made...well, until it was joined by much of the Berman era and beyond.

I've read similar criticisms in the past and I just don't agree. The narrative reason for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy's behavior in TMP is because they had all gone their separate ways for two and a half years. Their stories mirror V'ger's: they, too, are incomplete, searching for that which will bring them wholeness. For Kirk, that's not just the Enterprise, but also McCoy ("Dammit, Bones, I need you!") and Spock ("Bones...we need him. I need him."). Spock, meanwhile, has discovered that the attainment of Kolinahr did not "answer his questions." Decker and Ilia are also incomplete, ultimately finding completion in each other through V'Ger, itself finding completion through merging with The Creator.

By the end of the film, the characters are themselves again, reunited and restored, ready to boldly go together again. One of the things that still bothers me to this day about TWoK is that, somehow, Kirk didn't learn his lesson well enough after this and accepted promotion again.

 

[Pauln6]

I've read similar criticisms in the past and I just don't agree. The narrative reason for Kirk, Spock, and McCoy's behavior in TMP is because they had all gone their separate ways for two and a half years. Their stories mirror V'ger's: they, too, are incomplete, searching for that which will bring them wholeness. For Kirk, that's not just the Enterprise, but also McCoy ("Dammit, Bones, I need you!") and Spock ("Bones...we need him. I need him."). Spock, meanwhile, has discovered that the attainment of Kolinahr did not "answer his questions." Decker and Ilia are also incomplete, ultimately finding completion in each other through V'Ger, itself finding completion through merging with The Creator.

By the end of the film, the characters are themselves again, reunited and restored, ready to boldly go together again. One of the things that still bothers me to this day about TWoK is that, somehow, Kirk didn't learn his lesson well enough after this and accepted promotion again.

I find that the character relationships in TMP are very nuanced. Maybe they just aren't familiar and obvious enough for some people?

What it WAS missing was more camaraderie amongst the rest of the crew that HAD remained working together since Kirk, Spock, and McCoy had moved on. They might have been able to evoke more of that TOS vibe in a scene with McCoy perhaps.

I know one scene in the early script involved the supporting crew engaging with the probe on the Rec Deck. Also, having Rand taking over Ilia's Station could have been used as an opportunity to have the original crew back together with a bit of banter.

 

[fireproof78]

the end of the film, the characters are themselves again, reunited and restored, ready to boldly go together again. One of the things that still bothers me to this day about TWoK is that, somehow, Kirk didn't learn his lesson well enough after this and accepted promotion again.

I think the lesson would have landed far better in TMP if Kirk wasn't an absolute jerk to people.

 

[drt]

I think the lesson would have landed far better in TMP if Kirk wasn't an absolute jerk to people.

Although, his jerky attitude pretty much ended once Spock arrived, showing he needed both Bones and Spock present to be "himself".

One of the things that still bothers me to this day about TWoK is that, somehow, Kirk didn't learn his lesson well enough after this and accepted promotion again.

It seems apparent that TWOK was intended as a soft reboot of the Trekverse.

 

[Nyotarules]

I've started a Trek Sunday movie weekend today with TMP being the first and will watch the rest over the next three months. I am not a TMP fan, the VFX have not dated well, the uniforms are a bit naff, Kirk is a jerk at first. However, I can still appreciate the excitement when it came along in the 70's when I was just a little girl and a TOS fan. It was a treat back then, unless you went to the theatre, you waited for it to come on TV at Christmas time. The franchise needed the reboot of TWOK, without it I doubt TNG and all the other shows would have been produced. A plus for me of TMP is the soundtrack, it is lovely to listen to.

 

[Jack Wolfe]

I think the lesson would have landed far better in TMP if Kirk wasn't an absolute jerk to people.

 

[fireproof78]

Although, his jerky attitude pretty much ended once Spock arrived, showing he needed both Bones and Spock present to be "himself".

It really doesn't make it better.

 

[Frontis]

It really doesn't make it better.

According to your postings in several topics here I guess you just don't like Kirk, right?
This is not an offence, just my observation.

 

[fireproof78]

According to your postings in several topics here I guess you just don't like Kirk, right?
This is not an offence, just my observation.

Hahaha...no.

Kirk is my favorite character from TOS after Spock. Kirk has one of the best speeches from "Taste of Armageddon" and his interactions with his crew is great.

As captains go, Kirk is only surpassed by Robau and Pike.

So, does that answer the question?

 

[Frontis]

Hahaha...no.

Kirk is my favorite character from TOS after Spock. Kirk has one of the best speeches from "Taste of Armageddon" and his interactions with his crew is great.

As captains go, Kirk is only surpassed by Robau and Pike.

So, does that answer the question?

Well, you wanted to punish him and called him a jerk.
I guess you are just critical and that's fine ofc.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, you wanted to punish him and called him a jerk.
I guess you are just critical and that's fine ofc.

Wanted? No.

Wanted the rule of law applied equally.

And he wasn't a jerk in TMP to Decker and Scotty?

 

[Frontis]

Wanted? No.

Wanted the rule of law applied equally.

And he wasn't a jerk in TMP to Decker and Scotty?

Ye, I think as captain you have to break the rules sometimes and have to be a jerk sometimes.

 

[fireproof78]

Ye, I think as captain you have to break the rules sometimes and have to be a jerk sometimes.

To people who don't deserve it?

Getting people killed?

 

[Pauln6]

To people who don't deserve it?

Getting people killed?

Kirk has never been perfect. Have you forgotten the time in TOS when he snapped at Bones on the bridge under pressure? It's very reminiscent of where he snaps at Decker and then corrects himself. His personality in TMP is very consistent with a middle-aged man frustrated at his inability to find his groove when all eyes are on him and it's clearly intended to be the core of his story arc. The only time he seriously crossed the line was demoting Decker in rank, which was entirely unnecessary.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk has never been perfect. Have you forgotten the time in TOS when he snapped at Bones on the bridge under pressure? It's very reminiscent of where he snaps at Decker and then corrects himself. His personality in TMP is very consistent with a middle-aged man frustrated at his inability to find his groove when all eyes are on him and it's clearly intended to be the core of his story arc. The only time he seriously crossed the line was demoting Decker in rank, which was entirely unnecessary.

Context is for kings it seems.

 

[Pauln6]

Context is for kings it seems.

Or Admirals.

 

[Richard S. TaaAGH! *thud*]

I can’t imagine I’ll ever rewatch ST II-X in my life.

TMP I’m willing to give a spin every few years. It’s an experience.

 

[tomalak301]

I have The Motion Picture ranked 9th in my Trek rankings in between Generations and Search for Spock. I've gained some appreciation for it over the years (especially the music) but it is still a bit of a slog to get through. I do think watching it in the theater when they were celebrating the anniversary (I think that was 2019) was an experience though, especially the Enterprise fly by scene.